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Execution of Mother's Will and disputes over Will

52 replies

Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:08

My mum died last week.
My sister is executor, along with her husband.
My mum said that all estate, after funeral expences to be shared equally amongst three, anything left over to be disposed of by executor, i beleive.

My brother suggested selling everything that no-one wants and the proceeds be split amongst us for our children's trust fund. My sister initially agreed, and said she would donate hers to charity, then changed her mind.
She is now saying that mum wanted it all to go to a specific homeless org, and that NOTHING would be sold, end of story. She ranted on and on about how others should benefit from this, and it is what mum would have wanted, and as executor she is to do what mum wanted, even though it is not in the will.
When I pointed this out to her, she said, 'your right, it is not, but neither is it in the will that she wants to be scattered at Glastonbuyr, so technically, I can scatter in the garden if I want to, even though we all admit mum told us this is what she wanted, and all want this to happen.
Can she do this? Can she decide what happens to my mums possessions? She has given us until next thursday to take what we want (being really arsey about it) and said whatever has not been taken will be sent to this particular org, and if they wont take it all, she knows some cancer charities that will (mum never said she wanted those charities to benefit).
She claims she has a right, as the other executor witnessed this statement by my mum, even though we think she probably said something more along the lines of 'I dont want it to go on a tip, if there is anything left, you can give it to....org' rather than an express wish, she was at the time in terrible pain with cancer.
Please advise. I am unlikely to do much with it, but when she spouts it at me, I would like to be able defend myself and my brothers views without being seen a making her job harder, or being money grabbing vultures. The estate is worth very little (furniture wise).
Thank you¬!

OP posts:
figroll · 01/02/2007 12:25

These solicitors - they really can't agree can they!!

Polgara2 · 01/02/2007 12:26

Well that would make life way too easy wouldn't it!!!

Freckle · 01/02/2007 12:31

A grant is almost always needed when the person who dies leaves one or more of the following:

  • £5,000
  • stocks or shares
  • certain insurance policies
  • property or land held in their own name or as 'tenants in common'
Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 13:29

lol figroll! Your are very astute - 'dragon' has been used on occasions before, before all this, and not by me either...

Is probate the same as a grant? Does it have to happen without a dispute, or only if there is a dispute?

I completely agree about leaving it now. Whatever the legal stance, I do not care. Unless it has to go to probate whether there is a dispute or not, then I think it only fair it run its formal legal course, as my sister so keenly wants to happen... I beleive financial assets between £5,000 and £10,000, but who knows. furniture, worth sh*t all.

I will say pretty much what you said Fig- I no longer wish to talk about it, as I am thinking about my own feelings, and my little girl who needs me.

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stleger · 01/02/2007 13:47

Hi Pavlov, just taking responsibility for sending you to the legal section! I suppose because there are two issues - the actual legalities and the family stuff. I think it is best to know the legal side, but also keep in mind the costs of contesting a will are what make some solicitors rich. So take advice and have a good hard think. Legalities aside, it is a hard time, be good to yourself.

Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 13:55

stleger, thanks for this. I completely agree. And besides the financial implications of contesting, it will rip a bigger hole in the family. So much damage has already been done with a few poisonous words, legal wraongling will drag it out more.

I just think it is good to know, so that when my sister talks legally, I know if she is telling the truth, and can point out any misconceptions, untruths, and manipulations if it ever becomes necessary. Best to be armed with knowledge.

It is a hard time, that is true. I did not think I would have all this as well, but life is life, and I will be stronger afterwards.

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RubyRioja · 01/02/2007 14:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 15:11

I dont understand what probate actually you know! I thought it was for disputes only, My sister has a van from homeless org coming tuesday to clear out whatever wedont take.
Sorry for your loss too. It sounds like you have done a lot of the work.

Good luck on Monday x

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Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 15:17

just read a bit about probate. Is it compulsory? Can things, are they usually done without probate?

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Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 15:28

k, just called up hmcs and spoke to someone in probate help line.
He told me that asset wise, ie money, probate should be involved if specific orgs require the forms to release assets.
Furniture, probate has nothing to do with, and likely the executor has considerable control over how to manage leftover posessions once estate is divided, unless the will was specific that this was not the case, but even if it was, not a probate issue.
So, as I stood before. I will take what I want and thats it.
My sister has just gone against what she said she would do, she said she would give us until thursday, now she has given us until end of monday. The funeral is on Monday. What a cow (I am starting to perhaps see it how is really is now).

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stleger · 01/02/2007 15:35

I had to deal with a Northern Ireland will while living in the deep south of the country - your family is spread out too isn't it? Legal frameworks are similar but perhaps slightly different. From memory, anything of sentimental or financial value was put into storage, and bank accounts were frozen. An advert for possible creditors was placed in two papers, in case there was anyone owed anything. After this, about 10 weeks later, the 'stuff' was released. It took 6 months for probate and distribution of funds (nobody wanted many items, so I have a house full of junk as a result! Sorry, heirlooms) The solicitor handled the paperwork as I was so far away, but I had to sign a few papers in front of a solicitor here. As there was a house sale, the estate was worth a bit more - it was before house price inflation there, so about 50k? I was under the impression that probate was a necessary formality regardless of the worth of estate - where someone has died without a will a formula exists to distribute everything, I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that a legal will had to be shown to exist to avoid this kicking in? Was your mum living in a big city or small town - could you track down a likely solicitor who had handled a will? I am slightly concerned that your sister is being a bit of a knowall, and should check facts properly too?

Lilymaid · 01/02/2007 15:52

Pavlov
From my recollection - of obtaining probate for my aunt's estate, the executor should not do anything about distributing the estate until a grant of probate has been issued. This will be after the forms have been filled in and sent to the probate registry - including assessing value of property - and you have been to the local probate office and made a declaration/sworn! In practice it is probably not a problem if items of little worth are divided up between the beneficiaries, but in theory they should be valued and not distributed until probate has been granted to the executors.

Mumpbump · 01/02/2007 15:53

Get some legal advice. If there is a house, presumably the estate as a whole must be over £15,000, let alone £5,000. Posted on your other thread as well...

Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 15:59

hey mumpbump, here too! HBouse not her own, its housing ass...

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Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 16:04

stleger - you make much sense! yes my sister is a knowall, with little worldly experience to base things on. She is quite insular and gets most of her info from the daily mail or the bible.

And like you, my sister is likely to be elft with a pile of 'heirlooms' to give to charity, which my brother had proposed dealing with for her.

She has made a rod for her own back now.
I dont know about probate. She ha the answers, based on I suspect, the daily mail!

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Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 16:08

hey mumpbump, thought I recognised your name, you been on the sleep thread too!

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Mumpbump · 01/02/2007 16:09

Yup - I'm off work with a horrid cold at the moment so have ended up killing time on MN... Dh would kill me if he knew!!

stleger · 01/02/2007 16:09

If 5000 is the cutoff, did she have anything in the way of insurance policies - the sort June Whitfield advertises in the middle of Countdown? Things like that would quickly add up? (Now wondering if the Daily Mail has a useful website with information on matters like this...) It is a distraction from your real emotions though, all this.

Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 16:16

My real emotions, I have just finishing putting them in a letter to my mum which is going in her coffin to keep her company on her journey. Just me and my mum in that letter.

And still no tears.

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Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 16:17

and I would say that the daily mail should be the source of all knowledge. Me and my partner have this saying, courtesy of my sister 'if its in the mail, it must be true!'

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Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 16:19

Mumpbump hope you feel better soon. Me and the Lo also have colds. She has had calpol, I have had cups of coffee.

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Mumpbump · 01/02/2007 16:31

Thanks for good wishes...

I think everyone has different ways of dealing with bereavement. I know from experience that I go into denial, but then all the emotion tends to well up after about a month and I have a complete meltdown... Poor dh! That's what funerals are for, so you can remember the person that you have lost and have some time out to grieve for them. I will be thinking of you on Monday.

Pavlovthecat · 01/02/2007 18:11

Your right, I suspect it is all bottled up, certainly feels like something is 'stuck' I am usually quite emotional about most things, everything gets to me usually, I cry at the slightest thing, but right now, although things upset me its like I have dried up. My DP says I should try drinking more water!!
DP has been utterly fantastic I have to say. More than I could have imagined. We are both usually very stubborn people, and do not take much rubbish from each other, but he has let me vent my frustration without being upset (mostly), has looked after our LO, including some horrid weaning nappies (I would like to say without complaint but he had a couple of moans there), has dropped everything to go run me places as I have needed, and well, just been there for hugs, back rubs and love. So its not all bad eh?!!

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Pavlovthecat · 02/02/2007 12:15

Hey, just wanted to thank everyone for advice, support and good wishes over the last week, I am off to London to my mum's house before the funeral, sort out the things I want.

I have decided to take what I wish, not very much, sentimental items, and the rest, well my sister will just have to sort out, that is whatever my brother does not want.

It hasbeen great to have such a good network of people to help me through a difficult time. I may post when I get back to let you know how things went.

Will be on for next hour, but if no response before then, have a great weekend all.
xxx

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CocoLoco · 02/02/2007 12:50

Hope you get the things that matter to you - my brother cleared out my mother's books before I had a chance to take the few I wanted, I still cry about it two years on. I'm sorry your sister has made things even more difficult for you than they needed to be at this time. xx