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Original poster

Is this Benefit Fraud?

36 replies

yorkshirelass79 · 22/01/2007 14:45

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
SparklyGothKat · 22/01/2007 14:48

Not sure if it is benifit fraud, tbh.

NotQuiteCockney · 22/01/2007 14:50

It doesn't sound like a problem, tbh. I mean, the housing benefit wouldn't pay something higher than market rent, right? And if he wasn't renting it to his daughter, he'd rent it out to someone else (on housing benefit or not) and get the money that way.

As long as she's not telling housing benefit any lies about income etc, I don't see why this would be a problem ...

SparklyGothKat · 22/01/2007 14:50

Housing benifit doesn;t pay for the full mortgage does it?

Heavenis · 22/01/2007 14:50

If his daughter is entitled to benefits then she would be able to rent anywhere.
If everything in writing as it should be for any normal tentant I don't see this would be fraud.

Original poster
yorkshirelass79 · 22/01/2007 14:52

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
WeaselMum · 22/01/2007 14:57

It isn't fraud - it's a reasonable arrangement because the family need to rent a house, are entitled to hb, the house would be available to rent to someone else if they hadn't taken it. This tenancy has not been created to take advantage of the benefit system IMO.

The other thing to be aware of is that the authorities may well know that he owns the house - if the council has done their job properly then they should have on their records the name of the owner as well as the name of the rental agency.

If you think the family aren't entitled to hb because the daughter should be working - that's a different issue.

madmarchhare · 22/01/2007 14:57

There isnt an issue with the daughter claiming benefit to pay for her housing costs (assuming she is being truthful about any earnings etc).

Her claim has nothing to do with the mortgage on the house.

Original poster
yorkshirelass79 · 22/01/2007 15:17

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
KentuckyFreudChicken · 22/01/2007 15:27

But Mr Smith would have just rented out the property to someone else if his daughter wasn't living there.

Failing to see the problem here

uwila · 22/01/2007 15:29

I don't think Mr. Smith is doing anything wrong. He is simply renting his house. However, I think Miss Smitth ought to get off her arse and get a job like the rest of us.

FatFikAndFugly · 22/01/2007 15:34

I don't think there's any fraud. it's no different to renting to anybody else claiming benefits.

He'll be payiong tax on his profit (minimal if he has a good accountant) but it sounds all above board to be honest

Original poster
yorkshirelass79 · 22/01/2007 15:34

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OP posts:
Ladymuck · 22/01/2007 15:35

"Miss Smith and her partner and baby were living with her parents because they could not afford to rent or buy somewhere."

I guess it is the above that seems a bit odd. The implication seems to be that if this particular house had not become vacant then they would have stayed at Mr Smith's home instead.

But I can't see that it is fraud, certainly not on behalf of Mr Smith.

Tortington · 22/01/2007 15:37

i doubt muchly if you can legally rent of your mum and dad and get HB paying for it

it screams SCAMMMMMMMMMMMM. to any reasonable HB oficer who will be thinking - eh up chuck!

the reality is the rental agency willg et someoe else to rent it

Miss smith with be back living with parents

Mr smith still gets his mortgage paid/covered by HB rental income

the only loser is Miss smith.

and she wouldbe entitled to HB in the house next door if its not owned by her dad.

all in all - who gives a shit. HB money would be paid out to Mr smith anyway the only loser is daughter smith and BF and baby - who have to suffer cramped living until some other (maybe scum?!) landlord says "ok my property is shit live here whilst i get your hb to cover my mortgage!

WeaselMum · 22/01/2007 15:40

all an hb officer will want to know is:

would this property be rented out to someone else if not Miss Smith

is Miss Smith renting under the same terms as any other prospective tenant

is she entitled to hb

are any of the parties involved gaining anything because of the existence of the hb system

the answers are yes yes yes and no therefore it's ok

WeaselMum · 22/01/2007 15:42

I can see LadyMuck's point - Miss Smith might have stayed at Mr Smith's house and decided not to rent anyway. But as a family they have a right to move out and rent a house and claim hb.

coppertop · 22/01/2007 15:51

You're supposed to declare it if you're related to the landlord but morally I don't see the problem.

Original poster
yorkshirelass79 · 22/01/2007 15:53

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
redshoes · 22/01/2007 20:20

I think HB would object to paying this, because of being related...

ThisTime · 22/01/2007 20:29

You do have to declare if you are related to the landlord.

It doesn't necessarily mean you will not get any HB I they just need to see Miss Smiths tenancy agreement. With Leeds City Council they will pay Miss Smith HB direct to her bank acocunt but not check that she is paying Mr Smith.

Bekks · 22/01/2007 20:44

See DWP Guidance - in particular contrived tenancy and paying rent on commercial basis. - indicates probably okay. Has the student partner been declared though? Rules about students and HB quite complicated....

SpaceCadet · 22/01/2007 20:44

afaik-you have to declare if you are related to your landlord...

julienetmum · 22/01/2007 21:30

I don't know if the rules have changed but when I was a student I lived in a shared student house owned by my parents.

When we left uni we all claimed income support for the short time it took us to get jobs. I, however was not allowed to claim housing benefit as my parents owned the house. All the other tenants sucessfully claimed it.

jofeb04 · 22/01/2007 21:36

Hiya
A good friend of mine wasn't allowed to claim housing benefit for the house she rented as it belonged to her mother.

I don't know if there was more to it, but it sounded like as you are renting off a parent, you are not entitled to HB.

Mummypumpkin · 23/01/2007 12:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.