MLM Bot Watch 17- chat about Utah based tragicomic cultastic racketeering scamalangadingdongs like Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juiceplus etc etc etc

[Toobusytowee]

A brief history of the threads so far-

A few people were bemused at their friends' strange personality changes when they joined MLMs.
Eyespying told us they were tragicomic, thought stopping cultic racketeers.
We told him to go away, he was clearly obsessed, and can he go to his own serious thread?
We delved a bit deeper into the issues.
Eyes started creeping back. We told him he was too serious.
We became more horrified at the information being turned up and were sharing links.
Eyes told us aboutMerchants of Deception.
Timeless Vie was set up as a parody about MLMs.[[www.facebook.com/timelessvie
Facebook,]] Twitter, blog, Instagram and YouTube were all used.
People started coming forward, telling of their experiences in MLMs.
We became more horrified.
Bot Watch started on Facebook where links were put up of interest to do with MLMs.
Botwatchblog started and produced factual analysis of the discussions from MN.
MLM members (bots) waded in saying it was all ok. You can earn great money. You just have to work 19 hours a day and not worry about morals.
Bots complained about their names being used. Their lawyers complained to MNHQ so that MN now do not allow us to use bots' names or show screengrabs of their writings even if it is in the public domain.
Blogs and FB posts increased, with the increasing amount of facts and whistleblowers coming forward.
FL lawyer tried to get TV YouTube video banned.
Bots claimed we were bullying them because we were asking them questions they couldn't answer. we were called middle aged women and accused of being drug dealers.
It got a bit nasty so we ate some cheese for a bit and they went away.
Health claims from FL bots now reducing dramatically as a result of pestering from all of us.
We stopped telling Eyes he was too serious. We all started thinking in his language and realised he was right.
Eyes turned out to be very funny and entertained us all.
Sunday Times article produced exposing FL. With a little help from people here.
Lawyers still persisting in trying to ban TV's videos.

Some links of interest-
A factsheet aimed at people considering joining an MLM or who have just done so, to warn them of some facts. tinyurl.com/ha6sgxw

A film of herbalife victims describing what it is like in their MLM-

A film on how to spot a pyramid scheme-

A comedy review of an MLM product- www.youtu.be/4yr_etbfZtQ

I have a memory that they should go to BotWatch but I'm sure someone will tell you precisely, Windy. And please don't be in the least tentative about starting to post later than some others - great to have you here.

Thanks for that, Eye. As you know, I don't actually respond privately to PMs on this subject but I've read that with extreme interest.

I've been following these threads with interest, one of my sisters friends is involved with FL, and my sister says she has been to many of these product parties.

Yesterday, someone I went to school with (15+ years ago), who I never spoke to then and never have since, has added my on Facebook and invited me to like their page "Forever Fabulous with XX". She appears to be much more active than the other person we know that's involved.

Have these people just not realized it's a scam, or are they somehow making it work? Is there a level where you're not trying to be a millionaire where you can make a little bit of extra money? It seems unlikely.

Windy, you can send things of interest to Bot Watch or Timeless Vie or both. Bot Watch is especially interested in health claims at the moment but is always on the lookout for material for blog posts. Anything culty or just plain wrong is great.

Botwatchmail.gmail.com is the em-mail or send stuff to Bot watch on Facebook.

Welcome lacurandera.

No - they don't realise what they've become involved with, I'm afraid.

PS - but Yes, there's the odd person that can make it work for them. Sure, they have to leave morals and ethics at the door, and they likely run through everyone they've ever known - or vaguely heard of - quicker than a forest fire but Yes. The occasional person manages to 'do it', I suppose.

I seem to recall that the 'churn rate' - ie those who have been chewed up and spat out - runs at close on 100% after a year or two? Someone else might give you the actual figures. (And those are real people of course.)

lacurandera No one seriously disputes that, apart from the insignificant minority of shill Bots, the hidden, overall loss/churn rate for so-called 'MLM income opportunities' has been effectively 100%.

If you ask any recruiter claiming to have been earning money in an MLM, to produce quantifiable evidence (e.g. income-tax payment receipts) proving that he/she has made an overall net-profit (after the deduction of all related expenses), he/she will generally first react by becoming evasive. Some recruiters will become disorientated and look confused. Depending on how deeply they have been indoctrinated, if you insist on seeing evidence of net-earnings, 'MLM' Bots can become aggressive. They will generally try to invert reality and make you feel guilty for doubting their word. This is a technique which they have been taught.

If you look at the Opening Post to this thread, you'll find a link to an interesting fact sheet entitled something like 'People who care about you are worried'. You might find that to be a useful read.

lacurandera Sorry, I forgot to welcome you.

Just a reminder to all new readers and long time lurkers.

There are no stupid questions. There is no problem going over old ground, the more we can repeat the core messages the better. If something people are chatting about doesn't make sense please say so. We need the messages we give to be clear.
Feel free to post about anything, anytime, even just popping in to say Hi helps to build a sense of community.

Carry on.

Indeed, ambler.

Thanks toobusytoowee do we just send screenshots as they are or do we have to remove and identifying information of the "bot" or anyone commenting before we send?

I've just chucked away my aloe gloop and various supplements I now know I was conned into purchasing by spurious health claims! I never felt any different using them and now I know why. I don't consider myself to be stupid but I now have my eyes opened to the dark art of FL!

I am trying not to think about how much I have spent "supporting" friends' businesses

Windy you must now go and read all 16000 posts as punishment

ALL of these things are well worth posting and reposting!

There are no stupid questions and nothing is a waste of time.

Does anybody have ANY dirt on Younique? I've seen the exploitative video about the founder's three daughters and the fact that the abused women's retreat may be bogus but it doesn't seem as 'pyramid-like' as the rest?

What were you told they could help with Windy?

Unless it was constipation it was all lies...

Not thinking about it is probably best, Windy. After all, you were their friend once upon a time. Now, sadly, you're just a potential 'prospect'.

Twunk
Aloe Gel - help with digestive issues such as bloating and lack of movement (tmi!)

Bee Pollen - increased energy, help with DH's half ever

Garcinia - weight loss / appetite suppressant

Therm - speed up metabolism

Jeez I sound like such a sucker now reading it back, I am an intelligent person but got sucked in with the promise of a quick fix at a time in my life where I was having personal problems and feeling low and unmotivated.

I have now rejoined slimming world and my personal problems have gone meaning I am getting more sleep. Hey presto more energy and better food choices are helping with the weight, bloating etc.

Typing this has made me realise I was so gullible but it's the way it's presented as helping plus you want to support friends.

Having said that I do like the toothpaste and I love the lip balm and heat gel which I have purchased fairly regularly. However I won't be buying any more when I've run out.

Half ever is obviously hay fever!

I have joined in with their online parties and endorsed the products that I have tried. That will also no longer be happening.

Interestingly none of them have ever purchased Body Shop from me in return...

elliebe13 Welcome.

The sole criteria for judging whether any trading scheme is a dissimulated closed market swindle (aka pyramid scheme) is if the scheme has had a sustainable, and significant, source of revenue other than its own participants. 'MLM' rackets, like 'Younique,' have offered their participants commission payments on purchases which they make themselves and on those of their recruits and those of the recruits of their recruits, etc. ad infinitum. There is little evidence that 'Younique' Bots have been regularly selling the wampum products to the general public based on value and demand, but there is plenty of evidence that they have been duplicating an endlessly complex plan designed to shut down their critical, and evaluative, faculties, and deceive them into regularly buying the effectively-unsaleable wampum themselves and finding others to duplicate the same fraudulent plan. Thus, the reason why 'Younique' Bots have kept handing over their time and money, is the false expectation of future reward.

Can someone explain wampum please?

Thanks eyes! My Younique bot has now deleted me for all the Timeless Vie stuff I share but she has seriously undergone a complete personality transplant. I think she's got quite a big downline too. There's just not much stuff on them compared to Forever Living and Herbalife so it seems more innocuous I guess.

No need to see yourself as 'such a sucker'. These were people you knew - friends, some of them - who you would normally think were looking out for your interests and with whom you could relax.

The methods that MLMs train distributors in can be ruthless. Likely, the approaches were scripted and it certainly sounds as if you had much sucked out of you. The newer distributors may not be 'old pros' at the game, but the people directing them likely were. You didn't stand much of a chance, really.