MLM-Bot Watch SIX - Juice+, Forever Living, Younique, Arbonne, newbie ARIIX, and our own Parslai-powered Timeless Vie

[stopfaffing]

Here it is!

Thread 5

And the way they draw you in is sneaky. Eric Worre says (quite rightly) that most people will be turned off by the boasts of six figure income. So if you cave and agree to watch a video, they will then call you and ask leading questions, 'what did you like best?' And ask you what you want in your life, how much money a month would make your life better. And when you tell them, they'll tell you they can help you achieve that. So they'll try to meet you and if you agree, they'll come and present to you. It usually involves drawing a chart with lots of circles on. They will make it sound easy. This is how they get some skeptics. This is why I say, don't even enter into a conversation, don't say no. Just insist they don't ever mention it and refuse to give a reason why.

longtimelurking I took exactly the same common-sense approach as yourself when I first encountered well-educated adult members of my family under the malign influence of an 'MLM Prosperity Gospel' cult.

The fairy story they slavishly duplicated, but without any quantifiable evidence to prove its was true, was puerile and absurd.

I now understand that core-'MLM' adherents are persons who totally accept a non-rational Utopian fiction as fact. They have undergone a form or religious conversion, and their critical and evaluative faculties no longer function.

Everyone accepts that you can brainwash vulnerable individuals into committing actual suicide, so imagine how much easier it is to trick vulnerable individuals into committing financial sucide.

In cults, the devious coordinated techniques of social, psychological and physical persuasion, are always essentially the same, even if the exact destructive behaviour demanded of the adherents is different.

^ this don't give them an inch. Dont agree to watch a video. Don't let them 'pop something on your Facebook page' as a favour, don't enter a prize draw, do a survey any of these things as you open yourself up to their bullshit.

Shane Lynch is keen to build his FL team now too.... I saw on Twitter this weekend.

To my (probable) shame, I had to look up who that was. He seems potentially vulnerable as well.

Even the average 10 year old can figure out that you need to produce something or add value in some way to make money. I.e. total income minus total costs. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

Having watched some of the YT videos that is what I find even more bizarre. There are lots of sob stories and lots of talk about positive thinking and all sorts of cult like jargon (uplines, downlines, CCs, etc) but absolutely NO clear mention of how these incomes are generated.

What I see are a lot of vulnerable and a few greedy people being sucked into a cult where they get the 'love' they desperately need. Most of them would be better off doing almost anything other than MLM............perhaps seeing a counsellor, seeking career advice, doing a college course or even just joining a hobby club to make real friends.

The forever Natalie Heeley video on YT is a classic example, she talks about being a manager in 2 months? How can that sound like a realistic achievement in a genuine business to anyone.

longtimelurking maybe I didn't get enough sleep last night, not sure why, but what you have written has got to me a bit. I was drawn into the mlm world and I'm neither stupid nor greedy.

When I joined it didn't have a massive online presence on fb yet, pre EC etc so I hadn't seen anyone boasting of living in a castle, having loads of cars or earning a 6 figure income.

I was approached by my sponsor if I wanted to earn an extra income around what I was already doing. I had a young family and thought it would bring in a couple of hundred pounds a month on part time hours. Not once did I ever think I would be earning a 6 figure income.

As I'd not heard of Forever before this, she set up a 121 to tell me more. There wasn't much on the internet and there certainly weren't massive threads like this to read.

It's very clever as it gets you to think about what you want out of life. At the start of the 121 (before you know anything bout Forever) she showed me this slide. It's a way for them to see what you are looking for in your life. They can then relate the business to this to show you how you could earn extra money. The 121's and BP's are done in such a way that it makes you feel that it's totally achievable.

It wasn't until I'd joined that I found out what was really expected. The mindset training wasn't as hardcore as it is now. That really came into play in the last year to 2 years. But thankfully that's when I started to realise that things just didn't add up and that t's all smoke and mirrors

Here's the slide from the 121

gorgeous

Christ! He'll be an Eagle Manager by next week due to all his "hard work" in fairness he will probably build a massive down line of fans. Wouldn't have thought he'd need the money though...

Why do the 'aspirations' all seem to centre round houses near a beach and white cars?

rayofhope
Yes long's words got to me a bit as well. I'm not stupid or greedy either, my upline had been posting on FB about making extra money for Christmas and being on maternity leave at the time I liked the sound of some extra income. The webinar and 121 with her upline (a top Bot and v convincing) made it sound achieveable and in fairness no-one criticised it to me as a pyramid scheme. I got fed up of repetitive training and business presentations, late night Skype calls and self-funding events and realised I didn't have a "Why" remotely big enough to sacrifice time with my family. Then I started really looking into it and realised how difficult it would be in reality to achieve these earnings and how much of it was smoke and mirrors. People have no idea how convincing the whole thing can sound and how intelligent people like us, who think they could see through a scam a mile away, can be sucked in.

Longtimelurking, keep reading up and gathering information because this will protect you from falling for these scams. Do not become complacent because once you start thinking that it can't happen to you, you are vulnerable. It isn't thick or uneducated people that fall for these scams, they are clever and normally sensible people.

They were probably recruited by a friend or family member that they respect and know to be clever. This friend tells the potential recruit that they are earning a bit of money doing something really simple and enjoyable. There is no pressure but the friend knows that the prospect is dreading returning to work/ hates their job/ is going to be redundant/ wants more time with family so they play on those aspects. It all sounds so easy and achievable and the friend swears it is working for them. Why would the prospect disbelieve them?

Once they have joined most leave pretty quickly when they see it isn't really working but others will stick at it, hoping they can be that ones that it works for. Like when you are in a bad relationship.

^ exactly this too busy

Indeed. There are many features in common with entering into/being in a bad relationship.

Lovewineandchocs and rayofhope

Don't be offended by longtimelurking, because this is very-common reaction which merely fails to appreciate that virtually anyone can be sucked into a cult at a time of vulnerability. Once inside a cult, the adherents' instinctual desire to justify his/her previous behaviour can prevent them from admitting that they didn't make a free choice to enter and that they were, in fact, manipulated via their own common instinctual desires.

The full truth about cults can be a threat to our self esteem, because 'the most powerful weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.'

We should also explain to longtimelurking that there is a hell of difference between short-term 'MLM'ers (like you two), who form the overwhelming majority, and the minority who become completely dissociated from external reality.

Only a few cult adherents (short-term and chronic) ever have the courage to admit that they were duped. longtimelurking's typical reaction is what cult bosses like, because it prevents their victims from coming forward for fear of being ridiculed.

Falling for a Cult fairy story has been described as like a shivering person being invited to climb into a nice warm bath. The temperature of the water is then only gradually increased so that the most warmth-starved adherents don't notice. It can soon become too late to get out.

One thing that makes it 'attractive' is, conversely, the amount of time it takes up. Contrary to what you are told, as far as I can see, the minute you join you are roped into training after training, success days, positive visualisation, etc. And we are biologically programmed to value something we spend time and energy doing - it is how we love our children! And spending lots of time around people who (appear) to think it is the best thing can be very convincing.

Long, I thought exactly the same as you when my Sil started with Fl 10 months ago. I couldnt understand why people fell for these scams. Now, after reading more about it, following the different bots on fb, talking to people on these threads, especially ex fl people, who btw I admire very much, and reading "Merchants of Deception", I now understand how and why it happens. Its a very dangerous and serious world to get into, Im still learning new things now. All we can do is try to be there for the people we love if they suddenly see the light and definitely not say "I told you so". You will find it fascinating and frightening at the same time, as you learn more about it Long.

Longtimelurking Yes there are those who are vulnerable or just plain greedy but the bots approach can be extremely plausible particularly if it's just extra money that is needed not 6 figure amounts.
It may be someone who they trust that approaches them
The love bombing and presentation of a massively supportive tribe around them is another draw, I know of many bots who find this environment so supporting.
These threads are invaluable at raising awareness about what occurs at a deeper level, I know I have found them to be and I'm sure that other exbots will too.
Read Merchants of Deception, it's spot on.

And part of the training is 'personality profiling'. So if you are a sceptical type, they won't use the same lines on you that they would on a different type - there is a different 'script' for different 'types'.

I am self employed and work in finance in the UK. 300K/1.4million purchase price = 21% deposit = ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE for the most steadfast of professional couples working for large corporations, never mind a single self employed person with no real accounts to show. Pure and utter fantasy and lies.

The monthly mortgage repayments would be a shade under £6000 which is a lot of aloe gunk to sell / people to recruit .....

FLhahaha - Yes, the more time and money invested in a 'Prosperity Gospel' cult: the more the chronic adherents believe they have to lose. Many of them have drained their savings, sold off their assets, gone into debt, stolen from friends and relatives, etc., to get hold of the cash to keep playing. 'MLM' rackets are games rigged so that only the persons who set them up, can ever win.

This is where the mindset of chronic 'MLM' victims is very close to that of chronic gamblers, but at least gamblers do have a small chance of winning from time to time.

Oohh EC has got a cute new pup (alongside another dog)-intrigued as to whether the rental agents agree with pets in a posh rental with the owners furniture in situ!! I think the castle still belongs to the guys who were on grand designs (EC & her sister are on her friends list on FB).

Can I say that I am so impressed by the level of understanding displayed by all the MN members who have just posted in reply to Longtimelurking

I think all of us have sensed that Longtimelurking is on the right track, but we're just a bit further down it.

Someone I know invited me to a 'candle party'. I don't use candles even in a power cut (I have a hurricane lantern for those :) ) so I didn't go, but now I'm wondering, is that an MLM thing too?

It's a black lab! I reckon they've been reading these threads.