Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Money matters

Find financial and money-saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum. If you're looking for ways to make your money to go further, sign up to our Moneysaver emails here.

Original poster

Reaaurance needed Balififfs have no legal right to enter my property?

64 replies

hasbean · 25/09/2006 13:51

I have recieved a very intimadating letter today telling me they are going to take my property and sell it - if I do not let them in they can't. As far as I know I do not have to let them in but can they take my car? (or should I hide it)

OP posts:
Original poster
hasbean · 25/09/2006 20:27

The court hearing so far has just been for the council to get a liability order against me, there was no chance to speak and even if there was it would be pointless as I am liable for the bill. I did call the council after the liability order had been sent and spoke to a nice guy who said if I paid all that I owed within 2 months they would only charge me half of the court costs this was impossible.
I will not sell anything to clear this debt It will be clear by the end of the financial year. But I will not deal with the bailiffs at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
hasbean · 25/09/2006 20:29

Thanks for your concern, I am not trying to fight the system ,I fully intend to pay I just will not deal with the bailiffs at all ever ever ever

OP posts:
LIZS · 25/09/2006 20:31

hasbean , you'll have to discuss them very publicly in court if you refuse to deal with the bailiff. Sorry but it seems a bit poitnless to worry about that now. If you go to CAB now they can liaiase on your behalf with bailiffs/council so you wouldn't have to swallow your pride.

If you 've genuinely paid 500 of this year's bill then, by my calculation, you would only be on month in arrears at most, so sorry but it doesn't sound right that they are chasing you legally already for that unless you have a previous poor record.

AngelaChill · 25/09/2006 20:36

Hasbeen dealing with them isn't optional, they take your car and sell it for 10% of it's true value. You need to start thinking clearly, no point in getting angry you owe the money, you could have had a payment plan or even council tax benefit but it's too late for that. You can't be a prisioner in your own home and you no longer have the luxury of choosing when to pay, just get it over with asap.

Philomena · 25/09/2006 20:38

I can't see that you have any choice, I'm sorry. You HAVE to act now, and act quickly, to get this sorted. If you don't do something then you'll probably end up in a worse situation.

Agree bailiffs are awful and scary, but the problem won't go away by ignoring it. I'm not sure anyone would be prepared to wait until the end of the financial year, either.

Original poster
hasbean · 25/09/2006 20:40

Great as if I don't feel bad / angry enough you have decided to cast doubt on me. I didn't pay anything until 25th July thus having gone 6 months with no payment, I have since made 2 £200 payments but have had no dialogue with the council so I guess this is why they have continued with this action. I have previously (6 years ago) fell behind with payments and I did not pay my poll tax but that was principle not financial.
i will call the council tomorrow or the next day if I feel calm enough to control my temper, and will continue to make payments directly to them but...............I WILL NOT DEAL WITH THE SONS OF SATAN.

OP posts:
LIZS · 25/09/2006 20:45

Council Tax year runs from April so could you have defaulted on installments of last year's bill prior to this without realising ?

GreenLumpyTonsils · 25/09/2006 20:45

Hasbean, no-one is trying to upset you or cast aspersions on you AT ALL, honestly, many of us have been through this and know how intrusive bailiffs can be and how angry it can all make you. Of course you intend to pay, no-one doubts that either, I'm sure. It's just that in the short term, to keep the bailiffs at bay, the CAB can be really helpful. It would be terrible to lose your car or your possessions, wouldn't it? And I know from experience that having the same debt dragged through court over and over makes the costs skyrocket really quickly.

I wish you the very best in all this - I feel sure everyone else who has posted does too.

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 25/09/2006 20:45

ok, well, you've had an awful lot of good advice here, I don't know what to say.

They can take your car. More to the point, they will take your car unless you put it in a lock up garage. They will sell it for less than its market value. Much less.

They can put you in prison. This is a criminal matter, its a criminal offence not to pay council tax. At the moment, you owe them money and they call the shots.

They can actually enter your house so long as you do it peaceably. This means they can come in through the windows if they are unlocked. Or if they are of the ilk round here, they can pick the lock, then pretend you left it unlocked . They are bastards, bascially.

Is there any slight chance that you are entited to any council tax benefit?

Anyway. Good luck with it.

Original poster
hasbean · 25/09/2006 20:54

Liz ok I didn't make a payment for 4 months then. There were deffinatley no arrears from previous years. I have recieved alot of good advice from everyone and I thank you for that, I know I am doing myself no favours. I would have been entitled to benefit if I had claimed whilst DP was not working but not any more. I will call the council and see if I can make an arrangement with them at this late stage if they say no I will hide my car, the bailiffs cannot get into my flat and continue to pay the council through direct bank transfer

OP posts:
mumfor1standfinaltime · 25/09/2006 20:59

Baliffs are people employed to get some of the money back which is owed to the council, they are not Satan!
When your partner was unemployed - I do not understand why you didn't claim council tax benefit.

If you fall behind with the Council - you have to keep them informed at all times, as long as you tell them your situation they shouldn't take action.
I missed 3 payments for council tax when I was getting married, I had set up a direct debit to ease pressure of wedding plans and they didn't take the money from my account. I got a letter telling me I would go to court. I phoned them and said 'you didn't take money out, I have forms to prove dd was set up blah blah' They didn't have leg to stand on.

I used to live in a council flat too and never got behind with rent, I got offered a house with a ha and had to pay 2 weeks rent on the house before I could move in and pay 4 more weeks rent on my flat, which is ridiculous. I couldn't afford to pay it all at once, so I told them I would pay x amount a week until it was paid. They didn't object.

You must always talk to these kind of people. Don't give them the satisfaction of coming after the money or for your car! I know local council offices can be depressing places, you should be able to talk to someone in private.
Hope you get things sorted

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 25/09/2006 21:07

some of them are pretty close to satan, tbh though

and "employed" is a loose term in this context.

i don't blame anyone one bit for being scared or wanting to avoid them

its a rare baliff who is a 4 ft 9 woman.

Skribble · 25/09/2006 21:21

Unfortunatly what ever your opinion of baliffs the council have passed your debt on to them so you will have to deal with them.

Some may be intimidating and seem close to satan but at the end of the day they have to seize goods that will raise the value of your debt, there are a few restrictions on things they can take but not a lot.

Go to CAB and get advise, but don't ignore it and don't think all the money you are paying to the council will get rid of the baliffs either.

Skribble · 25/09/2006 21:23

Hope this helps. hope you can work it all out.

Original poster
hasbean · 26/09/2006 08:12

Just heard on the radio there is a program on bbc at 2100hrs which from the brief description backs up my ' Sons of Satan' theory

OP posts:
Original poster
hasbean · 26/09/2006 12:38

I have called the council and they will not call the dogs off unless I pay in full. I guess I'll be hidding the car for the next few months.
(band A not D BTW)

OP posts:
nutcracker · 26/09/2006 12:43

hasbeen, we had a visit from a baliff for non payment of council tak only the other week and there is no way on this earth that the baliff was going to accept anything less than payment in full. They had also added charges of £140 for them coming out and I assume they do that each time.

If you don't intend to sort this out for a few mths then by that time you will owe probably twice what you do now.

Have u tried ringing the baliffs ??

Original poster
hasbean · 26/09/2006 12:45

Thanks for that link skribble it's very interesting espically the bit about if they gain lawful access once they are then allowed to break in, on subsequent visits

OP posts:
Original poster
hasbean · 26/09/2006 12:50

Nutcracker charges of £140 are excessive they should be a fixed amount. The link scribble did says from 1998 the first visit to collect council tax is £20 and subsequent visits £15 I would question this amount with your council

OP posts:
LIZS · 26/09/2006 12:52

please visit CAB, the process has gone too far for you to think that it will just right itself by the end of the year.

Baconbaps · 26/09/2006 13:14

That's a shame the council won't discuss a payment schedule. I think people are getting bogged down with the bailiff side of things.

If you fail to honour a court order then bailiffs are only one of a number of options the council can use to enforce the order. Bailiffs are usually the first option but if the bailiffs are refused entry and they cannot seize goods then the council will go back to the court and use other options like an attachment of earnings where the money is taken straight from a salary (don't think that's possible if you are self employed). The most likely thing in this case will be a hearing where you will have to attend and explain why payment was not made. The court would not order you to pay more than you can afford and prison is the ultimate penalty if they feel you are 'wilfully' refusing to pay rather than not being able to afford it which isn't the situation here I know.

How about writing to the court/bailiffs/council or even better a copy to all three and explain the situation with an offer of payment you can afford (if the situation improves you can pay it all off or increase payments). That way you won't have to get angry on the phone or feel that you are discussing your business with a stranger.

This is likely to go in your favour if it did go back to court as you can show you have attempted to come to an arrangement. Keep a copy of the letter and send by recorded delivery.

I've been behind with CT payments many a time for whatever reason and the council do not hang about when chasing you for non-payment!! Last year I had arrears taken directly from my salary (attachment of earnings) which crippled me financially for a couple of months but at least it was sorted.

I have done advice work (like the other MNer sorry can't remember who it was) so I know how invaluable the CAB and others can be for help but I've also been in debt so I can see from both sides. I'm also the worst for not following my own advice but communication is the key here. I hope you get it sorted

Baconbaps · 26/09/2006 13:25

When I say 'in this case' I mean Council Tax arrears rather than your particular situation. Thought I should clarify!

If you look at it from the council's point of view: they send a bill out, no payment is made for four months, they automatically chase for non-payment, they receive two lump sums but (and correct me if I'm wrong) no notification of your intention to pay the rest of the bill, so a liability order is sought and it appears to them that you have ignored that as well. They don't know your intentions unless you tell them! They are going to think the worst and assume you don't want to pay. As I said before I'm the worst for burying my head but if you can at least show 'them' you have tried to sort it it will be such a weight off your mind.

Sorry for lengthy posts

Original poster
hasbean · 26/09/2006 13:34

Your absolutley right about the fact that I haven't kept in touch with them and I can see why they carry out this sort of action. i know I am fault for leaving it until the last minute but that is part of my character, I wish I was more organised and didn't always put things off then I wouldn't get into this mess. I think I will try to borrow some from my mum and dad to pay it off

OP posts:
Earlybird · 26/09/2006 13:39

What a stomach churning experience, and I'm sorry it's come to this upsetting place. But - probably half the posts on this thread (which are helpful, sympathetic, supportive - Mumsnet at it's best) are advising to get straight to CAB to ease the situation. Any reason you're resisting doing that?

Baconbaps · 26/09/2006 13:42

No worries hasbean! I'm exactly the same which is why I'm always getting into a mess with stuff! Of course the worrying and putting it off is a hundred times worse than actually dealing with it but it still doesn't stop me. I'm great at advising others but I could do with someone to sort stuff out for me!