To many this will sound stupid but for me its a milestone thats important

[mirtzapine]

Money and mental health

DW got us into a major financial pickle - she created the problem, found she was unable to deal with it and basically gave it to me to sort out.

Since the start of our financial crisis, I cut up her cards and have been giving her pocket money.

This week she's been complaining about trust because i wouldn't let her have the bank card (we only have one) to take money out of the bank. She's complained to me about not trusting her. So yesterday evening I gave in and this morning she took the bank card.

On the way to work she rang me to say that she really fancied a McDonalds.

For me by tomorrow I'll have saved 550, presently we have 570 in the bank, I've budgeted £20, for today/tomorrow for bread, milk and a few other bits and bobs for the weekend.

My DW has real problems understanding money, my grandmother would say that cash burns a hole in her pocket.

Part of the way she got us into a financial mess was by the silly daily spend on lattes, Bottles of coke, McDonalds, a drink in a pub at lunchtime a magazine or two, a novel (she's a voracious reader and can get through a chick lit novel in a day). Over a day, from leaving home for work to going to bed somehow she would easily get through £20-£50.

I've worked really hard at getting us out of the financial mess, cutting back on stuff, being frugal. I've gone for several days not eating and drinking black tea, so I've got the food and money for the children and try to get some form of savings back.

For me Tomorrow will be a major milestone I'll have exceeded my savings target, and it will mark a sea change in our financial situation, and I'll be able to push a portion of that cash week on week forwards to grow our savings and rebuild a money safety-net.

So I'm feeling pretty fragile at the moment, her ringing up saying she wanted a McDonalds for breakfast, with the cashcard has messed with my head.

I asked nicely, that she took out only the £20 and that what I've described above is a major mile stone for me and us. She told me to stop turning it into an argument. Yesterday she was telling me how much I'd achieved by saving this money and managing out income.

I'm now feeling really worried and paranoid about her having the cashcard and what might happen. I'm trying to show trust in her by letting her have the card, but I'm going to be so messed up if she goes on a spending spree.

I've got about 8 hours tils she's back home and I'm feeling really panicky...

OP, I had a nasty wake up call about our finances about two years ago. It has been an emotional journey for me to realise I was a major part of the problem. I had to do some serious self examination. I already had a lot of tools for self examination but had never really applied them to money.

I read blogs about money (especially money in relationships). I watched repeats of 'Shopaholics' or whatever it was on BBC3 or 4. We had weekly money meetings for a while to help improve our communication about money. I thought about my own family's attitude to money and what my deep seated attitudes to money were. I discussed this with my husband, and I thought about the roles we had each taken on art money. I realised a lot of things about myself.

Things are better now but it was v v hard. I definitely needed a sort of 'slap in the face' wake up call to change.

It is interesting to see the different "mental Maps" that people have regarding money.

DW does earn a lot of money, but somehow she seems to spend an inordinate amount too. As an example, I did a weekly shop at Iceland and the local cash N carry £34 at Iceland & £23 at the CashNCarry that will do us for food and drink for the week. Later that day DW went to Tesco's and spent £101 and bar a couple of loaves and 10ltrs of Juice, cat food and litter and a few other bits and bobs... I'm at a loss as to what she actually bought.

Sunday I took DD2 to the BM, where I spent the grand total of £1.99 on a pencil. DW took DD1 out for a McDonalds, and to buy some clothes for her cos she's had a growth spurt and was £96 the lighter. I not including any travel in this cos we have oysters.

FaceDirectionOfTravel I get what you say about family attitudes and the attitudes that parents embed into us. I was brought up with my Mother and Grandmother always complaining that I was useless with money, was a wastrel and generally cash incompetent. I think my slap in the face was the realisation that more was at stake than just my own needs (2DC's and a DW).

RedHelenB surely that sould be one fifth to saving, one fifth to myself one fifth to DW, one fifth to DD1, and one fifth to DD2 (they are 8 & 5 respectivly). If we did it that way, we wouldn't be able to push forward £675 to the end of this week which is an "or else" date for one of the debts.

I would go the joint account/personal account route - all money goes into the joint account then a certain amount is allocated back to ersoanl accounts - you can set it up so it covers the bills/shopping/savings etc.

I am pretty good with money but I do spend an inordinate amount on little things- a lot of it is to do with time - it is quicker to buy lunch than make it- to buy coffee than make it - to buy nice food rather than have time to cook - to buy expensive presents rather than think and buy cheaper ones etc - we constantly throw away food that goes off becasue it was bought with the best of intentions but not used. That said currently I would rather save time than money. But if we needed to change it would need both me and DP to change- ok he doesn't spend the money but he would need to put in the time.
The shopping thing did make me laugh- DP thinks he shops cheaper than i do- thats because he doens't buy half the stuff we need - we then end up buying in a hurry...

Many years ago I spent a year working in a big post office on the counter. At the end of everyday I had to do a manual reconciliation against the till roll and what was physically in my till. I wasn't very good at it. What it taught me was that i could often key in the wrong numbers, sometimes it was transposition, sometimes it was some random numbers my fingers invented. sometimes I had overcharged people sometimes undercharged them. If my till was under or over by 5p (this was 30 years ago), I was in deep shit.

My till had to balance.

To this day, I still do basically the same thing, a manual one and a spreadsheet one. If they don't balance, I start all over again, so see where the mistake was made. Also I use the divide by 9 accountancy trick, which shows up transposed numbers.

The point I'm trying to make is that if your not very good with money in the first place, then no amount of technology will help you to improve, unless you take steps to check and balance.

At the end of the day I don't think it matters how bank accounts are set up. There has to be some form of financial transparency and accountability, followed by reconciliation and balancing the books

Agree in part but your DW is probably never going to do that in the way you would but at some stage she is surely going to want some degree of independence - the joint ac/personal account split gives her some indepence but doesn't risk financial stability.

Yes tomverlaine is saying what we all are, you can't realistically control her total access to money forever, that would be abusive, even if you meant it "for her own good" - by spliting the money out into accounts (esp if her personal spending money is in an account that can't go overdrawn and you have strict rules like "take out any credit without discussing it with me first and I will consider it to be the end of our marriage"), she has some financial autonomy without being able to negatively effect the family if she spends it all very quickly.

What we are trying to say is you have found ways that work for you but your DW is not you. She doesn't think like you. What works for you will not work for her. (And I'm not 100% certain you have found ways that work for you that are the easiest either).

I have absolutely no intention what so ever of controlling her access to money forever, frankly, I don't want to. This isn't the first time we've been through this cycle of hidden debt and then pass the buck to me to sort out.

She comes from a family where there was no financial accountability or responsibility. basically, what you have described above is the "irreconcilable differences" which is often cited in divorce papers. But truth and reconciliation can make big steps forwards into creating a system that works. What that system could be, I have no idea, especially as we have tried all of the ones mentioned above and none of them ever seem to work. And before someone chimes in with "credit reference agencies" there are plenty of lending companies prepared to take the risk. My biggest worry is her discovering street corner loan sharks (that is the next thing I have to watch out for). She's been close at times to pawning her wedding and engagement ring.

As I said above I'm fire-fighting the debt problems and only just managing.

I do appreciate your difficulty. It is so hard to know how to deal with someone who is like a child with money.

One of the best things I read which helped to bring it home to me was actually stuff about financial independence. When I read about being able to retire at 45 and saw that it was possible (theoretically) but wouldn't just happen automatically, that it was all about making good choices, a light went on. Mr Money Mustache blog was great.

Why 1/5 to the children - I am including their needs in the general bills money. But I still think your dw needs some of the money she earns to spend as she wishes. And she may not wish to save the same amount as you so maybe if you wish to save more it should come out of your 1/3.

Historically, DW lived payday to payday, before we married. Then even with both of us working she'd end up "borrowing" from me because she was short. Previously, she has used credit cards and store cards to prop up he spending. When it got too difficult she'd ask me for "help" IE sort out the problem

Then she resorted to loans, and the same happened.

Then she resorted to payday loans and advances on her wages.

This is the third time I've had to go through the "White Knight" routine and sort thing out. More fool me... but there are two children's well-beings at stake too.

It doesn't really matter what way we apportion an arbitrary amount (whether, 18% of nett remaining, 1/3 or 1/5). Somehow she does not comprehend living with in her means.

Frankly, she's a bit like the Greek Economy... her misuse of money, could have brought the whole Union down, Instead a bail out plan was put in place. Arguments rage back and forth throughout Europe, is it right or is it wrong. The Greeks themselves Argue back and forth, about curbing their spending or should they continue as they were. Should they stay in the EU or leave, there is a lot of prognostication about what impace that will have in the long and short term

I do not know how DW can learn to curb her use of money and see a little management now will reap dividends in the future. Previously, someone mentioned resentment and I realised that all resentment on my side will do is to lay the foundations of future mistakes.

And yes the reason I want her to take her own financial responsibility sooner rather than later, is to prevent the resentment that she will develop over time.

Its not easy. I wish I could buy a Doofenschmirtz Enterprises Inc. Money-Responsibility-inator and point it at her... except Perry the Platypus would come along kick it over, knock the handle the other way and I'll get a blast of Money-Irresponsibility ray.

I've read the thread and seen this suggested already but not seen a reply from you about it (sorry if I missed one!), but why not get her to set up a basic bank account (no overdraft) for herself and transfer her 'pocket money' into it every week and set up another joint account for your household weekly allowance - for things like food and clothes that aren't regular bills. Then you retain sole control of the bills account.

I'd put money on her not becoming responsible overnight and cleaning out the household account a few times but it means the bills would always be paid and no more would be spent per week than you'd budgeted for. Also means there'd be some awkward times where she has to figure out how to get one of the dc's something they urgently need when she's blown the household budget but that's very important to learn, as she didn't learn it when she was younger. Naturally you'd need to have a discussion about what is and isn't ok to do in your relationship at the same time - ie, pawning her wedding ring might be ok if it's what she needs to do to deal with managing money whereas going to a loan shark might be a relationship breaker - you have to let her know your boundaries and then stick to them, let her be an adult and take the consequences when they occur.

yes she has exactly that type of bank account now, but that type of bank account does not prevent the taking out of payday loans or transfers from our joint account with out discussion or notification.

As for boundaries, most of mine have been surpassed already. I'm between a rock and a hardplace, as that means a lot of questions that need answering, do I go, do I go with the DC's, does she go, does she go with the DC's etc etc etc

Only once the debts are cleared, the firefighting stopped and the managing just turned into an adequate budget with a bit of a buffer... will I consider that the relationship deal breakers have been met and its time to separate.

Does she know that this is a deal breaker issue for you? That you would consider leaving her over this?

I think he';s being very sensible and it makes me grateful that in our long marriage we both had the same aims financially, live within in our means, save, invest because they would be "jam tomorrow". Plenty of people instead are "jam today" and spend spend spend and it has never been a recipe for happiness.

Certainly you cannot let loose with all the family money the one on a couple who is not responsible with it. On the other hand you get some people who are just meaner than others both those are sensible. You might get a sensible wife saving for school fees whereas the husband wants the latest ipad when it isn't affordable by that family or the wife wanting £200 a month hair cuts which they could just about afford but would mean not much saved that week. In those cases where both are sensible but one Mr Scrooge and the other likes to spend all she can then separation of some money is a good idea although even then be aware that on divorce if married (different if living together) all debts and savings are put in the pot and split so poor Mr Scrooge ends up having to hand over all those savings to mrs spend spend spend unless they have been legitimately been invested for and are totally owned by the children I suppose.

FaceDirectionOfTravel yes which how I discovered what the phrase "irreconcilable differences" means.

LauraBridges good points made, thank you. I don't really wish to be Scrooge Mcfduck. I'd like us to reach some kind of balance or equilibrium.

One of the things I've noticed in our current debt crisis, is that DW has tunnel vision when it comes to money decision making. I'd like her to broaden her horizons when it comes to thinking about how money is used, the ancillary costs that are associated with an initial outlay.