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Original poster

Would this be classed as 'stealing?'

37 replies

bjf1 · 01/05/2012 18:29

If someone wants to leave their DH would it be classed as stealing if she took the money from his bank account (not joint, but she would be able to access it) to use as a deposit and month in advance?

She doesn't work, has 2 young DDs and has no savings. Has put up with his financial abuse for years. She thinks it's okay but I'm not sure as it's not actually a joint account. Although I do agree with her that it would be a cheap pay off for him so he couldn't really complain.

Not sure if this is a legal or a moral problem.

OP posts:
doormat · 01/05/2012 18:31

cant quote for definite but yes it would be theft if dh is the only account holder..

morally no you have put up with crap...

hard one lovely, good luck whatever you decide to do xxxx

lisaro · 01/05/2012 18:32

If it's taken without his consent then yes.

lisaro · 01/05/2012 18:32

Morally I'd say no though.

Xenia · 01/05/2012 18:47

In practice I doubt the police would intervene and there is a financial duty to support a spouse (which works both ways) in marriage and they are still married. I doubt it extends to helping yourself however.

lisaro · 01/05/2012 18:52

Xenia that's civil law, though. This lady will probably be entitled to half of everything BUT removing it from someone else'd bank account could very well get her into trouble, which I would guess is the last thing she needs.

doormat · 01/05/2012 18:54

agree lisaro ...it would still imo be regarded as theft as it was taken without her dh permission or knowledge...

TheDetective · 01/05/2012 19:07

Just take it bit by bit... so he doesn't notice?! Lots of small amounts...

Xenia · 01/05/2012 19:07

Yes, but in practicve would anythign happen? People do it every day on a break up. You also get people taking the husband's CD collection or the wife's dog. I don't think I know anyone prosecuted for that and possession is 9/10ths of the law. I just don't think the police would intervene. Plenty of spouses give the other spouse who is not a joint holder passwords and access to the account so perhaps by giving such password to her he has already authorised her to acces the account and use it for family needs like housing his children.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 01/05/2012 19:10

If she is able to take money from the account because she has the PIN number and bank cards he will have huge difficulty convincing anyone that, as his wife, she didn't have his permission. If she forges his signature on a cheque I think that would be different. I think it's a chance worth taking. I doubt anyone would press charges if they knew their abuse would be exposed.

IAmBooyhoo · 01/05/2012 19:16

if you normally use his account for purchaes or spending money for dcs etc then i dont think anyone couls say you didn't have permission.

Original poster
bjf1 · 01/05/2012 19:19

Still not really any the wiser on this. When she asked my opinion I said I agreed that, morally she should do it, but I didn't have a clue to what was right or wrong legally.
Wish she'd never asked me as I don't want to pass on info that either gets her into trouble or forces her to stay with him.

OP posts:
Xenia · 01/05/2012 20:32

CES better expressed what I said. If she has been given access by the husband it will not be theft.

My comment that no one has ever been prosecuted or it's rare , dog example etc, needs to be qualified by the case of MP Hemming's cat... he was having it off with his mistress (he now seems to have two women at once including his wife or some other complex set up - may be one does the washing and the other gives sex) and I think moved in with her. His wife was not best pleased so she was caught on CCTV stealing the cat and prosecuted criminally. Hoever that is going to someone's property to take the cat not even the cat of her husband but his lover's cat. Different from the situation here.

IllegitimateGruffal0Child · 01/05/2012 21:48

What does the saying "posession is 9/10ths of the law" actually mean?

FreckledLeopard · 01/05/2012 21:54

Technically it's theft. If she cleaned out the account, did a moonlight flit and he went to the police, it's difficult to say that she would have any defence available to her under criminal law. She could argue that he consented (i.e. he had given her PIN number and was happy for her to take all the money. BUT, if this clearly wouldn't be the case, then it's theft.

Bank would not reimburse him as he had disclosed his security details.

Original poster
bjf1 · 01/05/2012 22:33

TBH I don't think he has disclosed his bank details. I think she just did some snooping as he is so tight and she knew she would need these kind of details for when she did leave. That was my advice to her BTW as I got it myself off MN, the one about gathering as much financial info as possible.
I am a bit worried now as she seems to be on a roll and has passed this paperwork over to her mum to 'safekeep' as she claims her DH will try to get away with paying her as little as possible when she does go. Am not even sure if keeping details about her DH's bank statements is legal.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/05/2012 07:40

This is not a normal family set-up and if she took the money, I think she could successfully claim that she was acting in extremis out of desperation. Like a starving man accused of stealing a loaf of bread.... whilst it is technically a crime, it would never get to court. Her 'DH's' bank account sounds like it's their sole cash deposit and, as such, it therefore comprises the marital cash assets. If things like Child Benefit or Tax Credits have been going into this account she could reasonably argue that the money she has used was theirs to begin with. If she has brought any cash into the marriage from work, inheritance or the sale of a property and her husband has pocketed it and is now denying access, he would be the thief.

As I said before, if she accesses the money because she has the details then he will have huge difficulty persuading a bank, the police or a court that she was not entitled to spend her own family's money. Keeping his bank statement is a sensible precaution, not theft. If he did persuade anyone that all the money is his, it only adds weight to her claim that she is financially abused and being kept in poverty by her own husband. I doubt he wants that kind of exposure.

If she really wants chapter and verse, she should talk to CAB or find a solicitor offering a free consultation.

NovackNGood · 02/05/2012 07:52

Legally it is theft whether you are married or not. Depending on how you access the money it could also be seen as fraud. Both of which will give you a criminal record. People do get convicted for stealing dogs, cats, cd collections.

Xenia · 02/05/2012 08:47

It is only theft though if you are dishonest. If as many many husbands and wives have they give each other access to the accounts of each other etc then uit is not. We had nothing closed to the other, opened each other's post, no privacy established at all. Many couples operate like that and then it's not threft. So you need to ask what have they agreed. If he always agreed she could access the money and she is just doing what is authorised it's fine. If not then it's not.

Xenia · 02/05/2012 08:48

She could apply to frreeze his bank accounts. I know someone whose wife did that very early in the divorce but that was big money. If we're just talking about £2k to pay a deposit and rent then it won't be worth the bother.

Mosman · 02/05/2012 08:52

If you use his card with his pin and transferred it to your account rather than go to a cash point with CCTV and withdraw it, nobody could prove it wasn't him who made the transfer. That's what i'd do.

NovackNGood · 02/05/2012 08:56

I'm surprised so many people are devious and underhand or advocate devious and underhand practices.

boredandrestless · 02/05/2012 09:01

Can she call women's aid to get advice? They will deal with women all the time being financially abused by controlling partners, and may be more familiar with the legalities of it all.

Does she have no bank account at all?
Does she receive any of the child related benefits into her own account or does these go into the account in her husband's name?

boredandrestless · 02/05/2012 09:04

If the answer to my last 2 questions is no i would advise her to
A) open a bank account in her name
B) call up child benefit and tax credits and ask that the benefits go into her new bank account.

At least this way she will be getting a little money into her own account, and may be able to save this up.

Is there anything she could sell to make a little money?

I left a similar sounding relationship using CB and CTC saved up, plus money from selling on ebay, MN, etc which I kept in paypal account until the last minute.

NovackNGood · 02/05/2012 09:09

I doubt that OP will be getting tax credits if she is unemployed.

NovackNGood · 02/05/2012 09:13

It's Le Concorde.

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