Advice sought re. school bursaries and property

[AssetRichIncomePoor]

Our children are currently at prep school, which is just about affordable as one has an 80 percent choral scholarship. In due course, they will move on to private secondaries - whereupon the fees go up so much that we can't afford them. We are hoping that DC1 will get another scholarship - but that is likely to be worth only five percent of the fees, which leaves us with a mere 95 percent of around 5k per term to pay.

Our gross income is around 40-50K (most of it from holiday lets), so we would in theory qualify for a bursary on top of any scholarship.

However, we own property: two holiday lets, one rental property (with a mortgage) and our own house (with a mortgage), so fear this will exclude us from bursaries. In total, we probably have 550K of our actual money invested in property. If we did sell all our property, that would enable us to pay some fees (though not for long, as DS is wanting to board). However, it would leave us with no income and no pension.

Does anyone have any idea how we can get round this problem? Any advice would be most gratefully received.

Just because you use property as pension wont wash with them either. Having a big mortgage wont cut it either, if it is for a house beyond your requirements ie more than 4 apartments.

The kind of people (at my old school) who got buraries had no car, lived in council houses, had never been on holiday, were single parents, students, cleaners etc. They werent trust fund darlings. Really, you need to join us back here on planet Earth.

OP, I think you would have to be extremely lucky to get a bursary. You are in a very common situation; you can't afford private schoolfees, but you aren't actually 'poor'. It's not unreasonable to hope and plan, though some here will scream at you, it's just that because private schools need to justify their position to the very people flaming you, they tend to give money to people really in need. I only know one family who get a bursary, and it's only 15 % of the fees. They live in a two-up two-down terrace on a housing estate and have no car.

IMHO, private schools are not especially good value for money for very able children, and the value shrinks even more if it's so nearly unaffordable that you are not having holidays or trips to museums etc.

You and your Dcs are bright, and perhaps fairly time-rich, so you might need to think more creatively - given your source of income, have you thought of homeschooling? The local state school, but with private tutors/foreign exchanges/lots of extracurricular extras? Think about what you hope a private school would give your son, and think about how else it might be provided.

Thank you for all the constructive comments.

Approaching individual schools is definitely a way forward.

Full time jobs are not on the cards as one DC has SN that require full time care for the time that that particular DC is not at school (which is one reason we ruled out HE, though did consider it: I need a break). If anyone knows of a term-time only, school-hours only job that pays more than 25K pa, I would love to know about it.

Lougle, it's a fifteen-year-old Astra. Does that make a difference?

And, yes, we do declare our income (bizarre question). We own the holiday lets outright, so didn't need a buy to let mortgage. We have a buy to let mortgage on the 'ordinary' rental property.

I too am shocked that you can't see it's your choice to keep your rental properties

You have options and choices!!!!! You could afford private fees if you choose to but shock horror it will mean making sacrifices.

Yep. It will mean living off, um, not even a state pension when I'm 175. But it's probably worth it all the same. I just thought/hoped someone might have something useful to suggest, and I am grateful to those who have.

Lateral thinking is called for. State option is a non-option so far as we are concerned, given our particular catchment area. HE is also not appealing for reasons outlined above. But there is normally some way round these problems - it's just a question of finding it.

Realistically would it mean selling all 3 of the rental properties to pay for school fees?

Look at your current lifestyle, go on moneysavingexpert.com and see how else to generate the cash you would need by changes to your current lifestyle.

One of mine has a means tested busary and believe me the amount the take and leave us to live on is minimal - they took more than we received in CTC, even though we received CTC because we were on a low income. Private education is a priviledge and generally it's for the rich!

The count our compulsory pension contributions as part of our income and only have an allowance of 12.5% of our gross income towards mortgage or rent. I live in the south east it is the norm that your mortgage/rent is more like 30%...

Thanks, RandomMess. That might well be what it means - though I have just been looking at one of the specialist music schools on the internet (DS was ten a couple of weeks ago, and is Grade 7 on three instruments), and the fees there are around 5K pa boarding for families with an income of 50K - though it doesn't mention other assets, and it may well be that it's not as straightforward as it looks at first glance...

The more popular the school the more stringent the bursary rules.
The very posh girl's school we looked at said basically if you earn over £40k forget it. They also required to see credit card and bank statements and said that:
if only 1 parent works this would be looked on negatively (i.e. other parent should work before they get a bursary)
If you have a postcode in a good area you don't get a bursary
If you own an expensive car you don't get considered.
If you have foreign holidays, this will affect their decision.

The bottom line was that unless both parents worked and had no property asset whatever you were not eligible. They even hinted that you had to sell your house or remortgage before they would consider a bursary. The only people I know with massive bursaries are: father a tennis coach, mother a cleaner, 4 kids, renting a property, and on housing benefit with no assets at all and a 300 year old car.

If you turn up in a nice car and a posh handbag with a main house postcode in a good area then they'll probably laugh at you.

Certainly the boarding school mine goes to considers you main and only home if it has equity of more than £500k in it (most families live in London and home counties) and yes if you have other properties and valuable assets (eg paintings) they are taken into account. Also if you are self employed they want to look at the business assets and you have to sign your financial declaration in front of a solicitor. You lie and get caught they will take you to court. After all they have charitable status and other people give generously to provide those bursaries.

Cost of full boarding is around £24k per annum...

I think you have to have a "net assessed income" of less than £10k to get full busary.

Thanks.

Nice cars, paintings and handbags will not affect us, happily. I am currently using DC1's schoolbag as I don't possess a bag of my own. The school hols do have their advantages.

It's just the pesky property thing.

If you want a private education for your children then I think that you need to sell one (or more) of your properties to release the capital and one of you needs to get a job. I seriously doubt that you will get any sort of financial help because on paper you're very rich. You've made life choices, you can't expect a school to fund your retirement.

I agree, it's just so inconvenient to have a private income.

Coconutty - can you signpost links to places with 100% scholarships?

I've heard of plenty with 0% purely titular scholarships, a lot at about the 10% mark, a few above this to about 30%. Higher than that I though was rarer than hen's teeth these days. Would love to be put straight!

Without commenting on the OP, this indicates that there are 4 schools under the Government's music and dance scheme.

However I have to at the rationale for the scheme

Rationale for the scheme

There is a need to educate and train, from an early age, children who are exceptionally talented in the two fields of artistic endeavour - music and dance - if Britain is to maintain a world-class pool of talent for future generations.

I'm not sure that tax payers money should be used to pay for this........

Could you take over the running of the holiday lets while dc is at school, and your dp look for other work to fund the fees?

Why can't one of you get a job?

If your ds is exceptionally talented then I'm sure a secondary school would come to some form of accommodation. The school we are looking at for ds expects choral students to leave at 13 with grade 8 on two instruments so your ds is talented but not sure he is exceptional if this is the norm for choral scholars.

Thank you, Ben10. I do think tax payers' money should be used for this myself, but that's a different debate!

MollieO: we are very familiar with choristers and their talents. Someone at the DC's school recently left at 13 with grade 8 on three instruments; I would be very surprised if my DS weren't the same. What's weird is that this kind of standard starts to seem average when you encounter it at school every day.

I gather via school that there is a degree of horse-trading involved at 13+, and that schools are very keen on particularly talented musicians (less so in clever children, as there are more of those) - and that they can sometimes find extra money to attract a child who might bring in extra kudos. But I'm trying to prepare for all eventualities.

Running holiday lets means I have a pretty much full time job as a cleaner while DH is a secretary. Do you think that would work on a bursary form?

I am still struggling to wonder why it takes two of you to do two holiday lets. My mother does holiday lets, it takes two people to clean them on change over day and my sister does the bookings and secreatarial work while running her own B&B and working another job. We run a B&B, DH does the majority of this while I work elsewhere and do emails in the evenings, and we share the care of two small children.

I'm actually finding it incredibly difficult to be sympathetic to your cause at all. I'm a single mother, I used to work 60 hours a week to pay for my son's school. I don't own my own home, I don't even have a car. I no longer work 60 hours a week as I am too unwell and I have just given a terms notice as I do not expect the school to fund my son's education. There's 2 of you, you have capital to cover the fees tied up in property and you have the nerve to want financial support? Sell one of the houses and get a job!

I'm sorry, as a parent who has struggled to put 2 DCs through private school (both got partial academic scholarships) I have to agree with others here that you have a nerve. Why anyone should expect a bursary to allow them to keep their assets while others struggle to pay out of income is beyond me.

You have ignored several suggestions of how you could manage them and one of you get another job so you seem to have no intention of changing and are just looking for ways to get your own way.

We live in a holiday area and have friends who have run holiday lets and other businesses like shops, launderettes, etc as well as one or both holding down other jobs.

Oh yes, my salary for 60 hours work was 25k so far less then you. We went without holidays, clothes ect. It's a sacrifice for a lot of parents and not all of them have half a million pounds tied up in property.