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Original poster

Sale of Goods Act - John Lewis

27 replies

skinnycow · 29/09/2005 20:36

I bought a John Lewis dishwasher made by electrolux/aeg in May of this year. The salesman sold it to us with the same adjustable baskets as the Bosch one we were looking at. We bought it on that basis. He told us to contact him if it arrived with teh old baskets (which it did) so i rang JL and we've been discussing it ever since as apparently the baskets werent available until end of June/July.

Anyway to cut a very long story short, I have now been speaking with Electrolux and they say that the new adjustable baskets wont fit my machine. How do I stand with JL?

OP posts:
starlover · 29/09/2005 20:39

hmm i don't think yuo can do anything.
had a similar problem with a pushchair which i was told did things that it turned out it didn;t!

you only have a case if it has been advertised as having that particular feature, and unfortunately someone telling you that it'll work doesn't count! have no idea why though

you could however tell JL that you will be going to trading standards etc and try and get themn to sort it ou?

Aero · 29/09/2005 20:40

Friends of ours got £100 off a fridge they'd bought from JL after complaining about a bad delivery service. Different, I know, but definitely worth complaining. Don't know about anything legal, but I would have thought they would refund you on the basis that what you bought wasn't what you were expecting.

LIZS · 29/09/2005 21:04

I guess you could argue that the baskets formed a verbal contract as part of the sale but presumably you have been using it and could therefore have been deemed to have accepted the goods anyway. Probably a very grey area legally and the outcome could well be subject to JL's goodwill. Trading Standards could best advise you.

We did return a fridge/freezer to Comet which didn't have clear drawers as promised (model had changed in the interim) but did so straight away and there were delivery problems too.

serah · 29/09/2005 21:38

You need to write to John Lewis, and include the phrase "not fit for the purpose" in it (detailing your complaint). Not fit for purpose is apparently the phrase required on legal grounds and you need to include and specify why (and why it is their fault) and what you want them to do about it and give them a deadline in which you would expect a response.

LIZS · 29/09/2005 21:50

but surely, Serah, if it has any baskets which enable the dishes/cutlery to be washed it is fit for the purpose of a dishwasher, just not as described by the salesperson. If you had a specific need for it to be adjustable (ie to take accommodate a certain sized plate) and specifically told him that might add weight to the argument.

Unfortunately it sounds as if you only have a verbal description that it could come with these baskets, presumably the one you saw when you ordered it didn't, but if you do have any, make sure you provide copies of any correspondence which suggest that you could have adjustable ones for that model, iyswim, and any action they would take should that prove to not be the case. Their goodwill may yet prevail.

serah · 29/09/2005 22:17

yes Lizs.... quite agree that it is fit for dishwashing purposes, but as you say, perhaps not the purpose required by the adjustable baskets.

John Lewis has a great reputation (as far as I'm aware anyway!) on such matters - if you stuff that phrase in, it will make their ears prick up to the possibility Trading Standards have been involved and they may bend. You could of course phone Trading Standards!

NannyL · 30/09/2005 09:30

Technically you bought something beased on what was told to you by the sales person which turned out to be wrong...

you ARE ENTITLED to your money back (you may need to argue a bit but you ARE!)

(they have similar things in which? mag quite often (in the legal section at the back!)

although not necessary if you could rememeber the name or point out the guy that told you, that would probably help. (that MAY be on the reciept if he put the transaction through the till)

Original poster
skinnycow · 30/09/2005 13:03

I spoke to John Lewis this morning and they've offered to swap it for the Bosch model - but I have to pay the extra £50 - dh is not best pleased! So if anyone can find the Bosch SGS45E for less than £350 please let me know asap! as JL price match

OP posts:
GeorginaA · 30/09/2005 13:08

£317.95 inc delivery do?

GeorginaA · 30/09/2005 13:11

£299.99 inc delivery here

Original poster
skinnycow · 30/09/2005 13:26

the tossers dont match internet prices but thanks anyway Georgina

OP posts:
GeorginaA · 30/09/2005 13:28

Oh, poo That's not fair.

serah · 30/09/2005 13:45

I would try putting my foot down with them, and say that the machine does not come up to the standard as sold to you by their salesman and you would prefer a refund as you have been sold it falsely (I know there is a better way of putting this but can't think of it)

Have you phoned Trading Standards yet to get their advice?

edam · 30/09/2005 13:59

Your contract with JL included the baskets so you have every right legally to insist on a replacement to the same value or your money back. And you've proved the terms of the contract in your discussions with them to date, and they've accepted that by having the discussions. Contact Trading Standards if they give you any hassle.

Original poster
skinnycow · 30/09/2005 14:22

Trading Standards have said Im entitled to a refund. As an act of goodwill they should do a straight swap Bosch for JL

OP posts:
starlover · 30/09/2005 17:52

hey i was told by trading standards that being told my pushchair had a removable bumper bar made no difference.
because it wasn't written on it when i bought it it was tough luck!

Kelly1978 · 30/09/2005 17:56

starlover - u were told wrong. Just cos it verbal, it no less binding. If u buy a product ont he basis on something u were told, you are entitled for it to meet that purpose. Otherwise you can claim a full refund. providing you havn't been deemed to have accepted the goods. Plus it is a deception under th theft act too, if they knew it wasn't true, or were reckless as to the truth.

NannyL · 01/10/2005 00:25

Hope you get your refund skinny cow

(I certainly would argue and argue and argue until i got it!)

(reminds me of the HOURS i spent in motehrcare argueing about faulty pushchair that broke 15 MONTHS after purchase...

anyway argued and argued and argued and argued on LOADS of occaions.... (each time letting a 2 year old walk around the shop and touch / play with ANYTHING he wanted to including their displays etc!) and I GOT IT in the end

Freckle · 01/10/2005 07:44

If they've offered you the Bosch model, refuse and demand your money back. Then buy the Bosch model over the internet for less than you paid originally and you're quids in.

The saleman's assertions regarding the machine do form part of your contract with JL as you would not have bought that particular model if he hadn't said what he did. As it does not now do what he insisted it would do, JL are in breach of contract. You can either rely on "not fit for purpose" or "not as described" from the Sale of Goods Act. You may not be entitled to a full refund because you have had use of the machine since May - but I wouldn't let on that you know this. Demand a full refund and threaten to involve Trading Standards as JL are not complying with their statutory obligations.

Very surprised because usually JL has very good press re its after-sales service.

SofiaAmes · 01/10/2005 16:44

How much will it cost to get the new one installed? Maybe you are better off just paying the 50 and making sure that jl take care of the removal of the old one and installation of the new one.

Original poster
skinnycow · 01/10/2005 21:45

JL rang today to get dh's credit card details to draw the extra £50. He told the Manager that he wanted a refund instead and asked for the £300 to be put back onto his card. Didnt quibble at all. They're coming to fetch the dishwasher on Friday.

Sofia- did you get my email?

OP posts:
LIZS · 01/10/2005 21:48

Glad you got it resolved even though you haven't got what you thought you'd ordered yet. Hoep you find a suitable one soon.

Original poster
skinnycow · 01/10/2005 21:52

am buying the bosch one we originally wanted from the link georgina provided

OP posts:
NannyL · 01/10/2005 23:01

Great result!

SofiaAmes · 02/10/2005 06:27

hey skinnycow, yes I did (forgot that that was your new name). I've been meaning to email you back...been a little crazy moving back in here in sunny la.
I have a bosch in england and it's my absolute favority dishwasher.
And when I asked the guy who repaired my cooker here in the us which dishwasher to get (to replace my ancient one), he said definitely get bosch.

By the way, if you haven't bought it yet, I would go for a fully integrated one (definitely worth the extra money). I think I bought mine from the American Appliance Company. They only deal with trade, but it's not too difficult to establish yourself as that (especially with your connections).

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