Anyone else who works and has young children feeling disgruntled?

[anonMum2]

We pay over £25k in tax and NI, over £10k for childcare a year, and quite a bit for student loan as we just missed the free tuition fee by one year. We then leapt into the housing market late as we were moving round with our jobs for years and settled down late, thereby purchased a house with a high mortgage. Apart from childcare vouchers tax savings and Child Benefit, we get nothing. I work full time, cramming it into as few days as possible just so I can spend more days with my toddler every week.

I see many of my friends chosing not to work because they get so much money by not working. A few have told me they get between £1 to £2k per month to help with their babies in the first year, which goes down obviously in subsequent years but then they get free childcare/nursery. They get free milk and everything.

Arrrggh...! why am I slaving away trying to contribute to this country and it's economy, and yet my net money to spend is so much less than theirs and we live in a tiny little house? We are always in the red every month after paying taxes, mortage, childcare and bills and food. If I choose not to work, we'll get benefits, tax credits etc. but it feels so wrong, when I'm perfectly capable of working. Perhaps all I'm hoping for is for benefits/tax credit/government aid to be more equal between parents so I can still work part-time, but get more financial help with childcare so it's worth me working part time, and those parents who choose not to work could instead get back into work part-time as well and then we'd all have the same amount of hours at work and the same to spend with children. A fairer system, don't you think? Or am I being really naive?

Ok, rant over!

how on earth are they getting £2k per month? surely if you are with a partner you will get bog all if you give up work (apart maybe from some tax credits).

£24000 a year from benefits?? Really?

If I gave up work I'd probably get about £20 a month more in tax credits but lose hundreds...

If you rent and get housing benefit you could be getting £24k a year in benefits BUT £12k of this would probably go straight back out in rent and council tax (and possibly more than that where I live!)

Free childcare is after the age of 3 and is 15 hours a week and it applies to your child too. (Well, it does at the moment, might be withdrawn by current gov.) I don't know about tax credits etc but I would seriously doubt it's of that order (1-2K a month).

But you're right overall, you should be able to feel your money going a bit further given the hours you put in.

No one gets £1-£2 a month in benefits, unless they have about 10 kids. Do they?

I have to work as a lone parent. If I stopped work all I would get would be child benefit and that won't pay the bills, probably wouldn't even cover food.

they'll only be coining it in if they're a lone parent with several children.

we manage because i work evenings, so have no childcare to pay, unless i want it. also dh and i have both got ok jobs but aren't trying to bust a gut for promotion etc, we want time at home, not too much responsibility at work etc. we just get the basic £38 a month tax credits.

i think you have to think longer term too. what will those friends who aren't working do once the children grow up? what about their retirement?

You're doing it because:

• Childcare costs aren't forever and you'll have a higher income, better pension, better prospects than your friends who aren't working

• By paying a mortgage rather than rent you're building up an asset rather than paying rent

Whether these things will actually pay off in the end is another thing. Obviously nothing is certain, but that's why I'm doing it anyway.

(Oh yeah, and enjoying my job's a big part of it too).

Jeeeezus...I must learn to preview.

Yes of course. Trust MN to put some sense into me. Yes, I do know all these thing. But with another one coming and childcare fees due to double, guess I'm not thinking straight.

It's strange hearing how they don't get all these, as these are my friends (not close friends but still friends I meet few times a year). They have between 1 to 3 kids. Why would they tell me they get all that if they don't? Plus all their OH work with, not high, but average salary, perhaps earning slightly lower than my DH. Probably like CG says, it actually all goes back into rent but they don't tell me that. They always tell it as though it's a huge perk not to work and this is how MUCH they get, with a lot of pride. Once again, maybe just me midjudging their expression with me being knackered working all the time, looking after toddler and being sick with pregnancy.

I think the main advantage to being self-sufficient - even if it means some short-term sacrifices - is that you can look at what you have at the end of the day and think with pride "I earned it" and "it's mine". Especially at the moment when public expenditure is going to be radically slashed, I would not like to be so reliant on the state to finance my lifestyle. In a few months' time, those same friends of yours could be wailing that their income has been reduced and that they are under big pressure to return to work.

Manage your (substantial) income and expenditure better to make the most of it. The grass is rarely greener on the other side of the fence.

but i dont understand why you have chosen to have another child if things are this bad?

As others say, you just have to think long term, because in the long term, you will be the winner.

I know what it's like, as we had several years of working with children in childcare are tbh there was no financial gain in us both working at that point (and this was in the days of much more expensive mortgages and no susidised childcare at age 3, and only three months paid maternity leave - so believe me, things have got better!)

However, you will have the advantage of a career (and your friends may be desperate for work by the time their kids are all at school), plus pension, plus all the other advantages of working.

Being on benefits does nothing to improve your life in the longer term. It may give you the money in your pocket right now to eat, clothe yourself, have a phone etc, but it's not providing you with the asset of a house, or choice about where/how you live.

well shouldnt listen to gossip as what you are hearing is utter rubbish

the only way they would get 1-2k is through large rent being payed by HB and they wouldnt see any of that

take it from me im lone parent 3kids and i get

138 wk tax credit
46 wk child benefit
62 wk income support

benefit i dont see is £22 a week council tax benefit

dont have any rent or morgage intrest,morgage free now

hardly a huge amount compared to what u have been told,i see your point but dont believe everything your told

swings and roundabouts ive been lone parent for a while so next year when i look for work i will end up minimum wage,poor outlook because i decided to stay at home,my choice but will suffer for that decision,u have kept your skills and if possible will eventually be in a better position

so may be tough at the moment but i personally think you will gain in so many ways in the end

dont listen to hear say its very rarley true

wish you luck

I agree with you about the problem between work rich and work poor families although, as always, the problem is that it is difficult to address the situation without harming further children who live in poverty with parents who are unemployed or on low incomes.

There will always be people that play the system but I don't think most people would want to swap places with people living on benefits. If you don't have another source of income it would be pretty scary. Maybe you should look up rates of Income Support for your family and live on it for a few weeks, you would probably have a good answer regarding why you work.

People always think we keep a lot, but we don't! Even my parents don't believe that we have nothing left each month. Mortgage, car payments, childcare and bills take up nearly everything. With the remaining, we always seem to be buying food, replacing things in the house that have broken, fixing things, and buying necessities. I don't always go for the cheapest but certainly never anything expensive. Our clothes are all cheapies from asda, tesco or sainsburys, on sale. I haven't bought a new pair of shoes for 2 years and just living off old shoes and clothes I've accumulated over the years. My bulging belly shows horridly in the office because I cannot afford to buy maternity wear and am a lot bigger than I was last time. Even then I only bought a few last time I was pregnant. We haven't had a holiday in 5 years and the most expensive thing we've bought 2 years ago was a £14k car that we thought would be an investment.. hmm how silly were we! Not to mention because we've got 2 full time income, family/relatives always expect us to contribute A LOT towards presents, meals etc. I keep dreaming of all those wonderful facial, massages, gym membership that my colleagues go for, which I keep thinking I deserve.. but that's just foolish indulgence that most mums don't get so.. ooh, wipe that off my mind pronto!

I don't know about the swapping places bit. None of my friends envy me at the moment, they see me working all the time, tired out whilst still trying to juggle childcare and maintaining my home. They mostly rent, never have to worry about fixing kitchens, bathrooms, replacing fences, fixing leaking roofs and pipes.. so on. All the problems we have. Maybe we've just been more unlucky than most with our house? I suspect not, I suspect it's just the usual maintenance.

However, I do agree with most opinions here. I'm very lucky to have a good job that I enjoy.. a house that hopefully we can keep up with the mortgage so it'll eventually be ours in 17 years or so. Therefore I'll now suffer a few more years and hopefully reap the benefits pretty soon! :)

Ps. list for fixing house has not ended.. we've got windows to replace as half of them are broken(they're quite old), old homeowner put cheap laminate flooring which are all breaking/coming off now and we're pretending it doesn't need replacing.. shed is old and leaking so that also needs replacing... and oh yes, the best bit, we have a baby coming soon! Hoorah! :)

tell you what OP - I'll do you a swap.

You can come and have my "income" (and the 3 kids to go with it) and I'll have your job and your income.

you can have all my bloody lightbulbs as well to replace when they frequently blow out

Right back at you, guys... you're obviously thinking the grass is greener on my side, hence the quote "I'll do a swap" and "I'd rather be a struggling home owner than a struggling renter".

and that's the other thing, people on benefits(however little and miserable) never seem grateful that people such as DH and I work all hours and contribute a lot of our income towards that. Quite often we are working all through the night and shouting at each other to get the house chores done, which we end up doing after midnight. All along knowing that we don't keep much of that income.

OMG, honestly (talking to myself now).. rant over this time I promise. I am going to be positive, I am extremely grateful, happy and can't ask for more.

MaMoTTaT- our kitchen lights kept blowing until DH replaced them with some strange Tescos LED energy efficient ones.. or something like that. Not blown for months now.

So, after tax and NI you have (at minimum) 37500 a year to live on... and you find it a struggle? And you chose to have another child without addressing the areas you're struggling with?

How many bedrooms do you have? Maybe you could take in a lodger- you can earn 4500 a year before any tax is due?

Your tax and NI is my wage. Sympathy is therefore limited.