Recurrent Miscarriage Support - tests, treatment, trying again - thread 12

[bakingtins]

Welcome everyone! A thread for anyone who has suffered recurrent losses and is in need of support, information, moral support or tea and sympathy. Newbies very welcome.

Please can we start (as is traditional) with a recap of where we are on 'the journey'.

At St Marys London they sometimes give progesterone in the months before bfp. The idea being it builds up slowly, giving it after is too late.
I took relatively high dose vitamins B and D which help support production before my bfp. Mr Rai said it didn't hurt but probably wouldn't sway matters either way, except that general good health is always useful!

Congrats on the positive scans Longest and Tanny. Bit belated!

Glad your appointment went well Barrelita.

Glad your husband is ok Just. These moments are scary, hope you're ok too.

Girlie - very ironic indeed. Grrrr.

Longest - I attended St Mary's after you and have proestrogen from bfp (with the caveat that if they learn it doesn't help they'll take them off me again). If they can't make their minds up 'in house' what their protocol is what hope do we have! From what I've read my sense is that it has to be earlier in the cycle to help, which is probably what they'll conclude soon enough. Still, over 7 weeks and a heartbeat without treatment is really positive - very happy for you.

Is the promise trial looking at the effects of proestrogen earlier in the cycle of just after bfp?

I started using my ovulation sticks this am so it looks like I'm trying this month without visiting Coventry. I may live to bitterly regret it, I may not. Isn't the perpetual "not knowing" such fun!

Thanks again all - you've been so helpful! Had a good chat with the EPU midwife this morning, I'm going to push for a referral to a dr prepared to provide heparin at bfp - just have to find out a few names!

just Glad your DH is OK! How scary, hope he (and you!) recover from the shock quickly.

girlie The first post-mc AF is tough. But it sounds as if you have a plan, and at least you can now charge ahead with it! It's a long and rocky road...

I got an unexpected +ve OPK last night - CD11 today, and I'm a bit about what is going on. Until now, I have always ov'ed bang on CD13/14, but now it appears to move forward... Any idea about the implications of a short follicular phase for ttc, anyone?! I know that a short luteal phase can mean problems for ttc, but no idea about the phase before OV.
However, I am really not making a great effort this cycle (again). DH had to work late last night, and by the time he came to bed, I was fast asleep! Will try harder tonight... It is such a slog seriously considering the syringe approach

Hey everyone, thank you for your support. My shoulders have dropped a bit, I have to say!

Longest great news! A heartbeat and everything!

Cloud I have a short follicular phase, 11 to 13 days, and I conceived on a shorter cycle than most this time, around day 11. I was convinced I wouldn't get a BFP as it all felt a bit wonky. I also had a very slow rise in temp following ov, so FF refused to accept that I ov'd at all!

I find the low progesterone debate really interesting, as my lining has been very to quite thin for all my scanned MCs, and low progesterone has been mentioned, but my bloods came back as normal. I took it from CD19 this time under the Coventry protocol, and my Gynae had previously prescribed it from BFP. I'm a firm believer, but really interested to see the results of the promise trial too...

I'm completely atheist, but went into Wells Cathedral today and had a moment with all my babies. It felt like a good thing to do. Those mediaeval architects knew how to inspire awe and love.

Lit three candles for my lost babies for pregnancy and infant loss awareness day today. Goodness knows there's a lot of loss on this board between us. Hugs to everyone x

How lovely, Tanny and March. Glad it brought some comfort. Feeling v sick today. Huzzah! Is not a whole heap of fun if I am honest, but I have been willing myself to have morning sickness in every pregnancy so I will try not to moan!

Hooray and boo in equal measure longest. Sickness is awful but I know what you mean about wishing it. Not reached the puking phase in the last two and was desperate for it to come and show itself to make it real

Longest I felt the same! That "hooray I feel completely awful!" feeling

Tanny & longest- you have every right to moan about feeling sick x

Hello, may I join you? Currently going through my fifth successive miscarriage and thinking some support from people who understand would be a very good thing. Thanks bakingtins for pointing me in this direction.

My history:
DS born April 2012. Fell pregnant first cycle of trying and naiively sailed through pregnancy pretty much without a care in the world (though the less said about the birth the better!) Cockily assumed it would be that easy again so waited for our optimum age gap before TTC no.2 starting last Christmas.
Since then...
Feb - MC at 5 weeks
April - MC at 6 weeks
June - MMC discovered when bleeding started the day before my 12 week scan, measuring 8 weeks. Tests revealed complete trisomy 22.
Investigations at local RMC showed nothing of note, I was labelled one of the "unlucky" ones and told to keep trying and hope for the best. Prescribed progesterone and aspirin in future pregnancies and told it probably won't help, but you might as well
Sep: MC at 5 weeks
Oct: MC at 5 weeks

I'm told that numbers 1, 4 and 5 were so early that they are classed as chemical pregnancies not miscarriages. I hate that term though and don't feel comfortable using it. As a poster on another thread said, it trivialises it and makes it sound like it's happening in some laboratory somewhere not in my body. I don't really understand why they should be labelled differently. Maybe someone here can explain?

All of my losses have proceeded quickly and naturally without complications. I was told by a nurse at the EPU that "At least when it happens your body miscarries well". I don't really know how I'm expected to respond to that so I'll just give it another eye roll
(I certainly don't feel lucky if that was the effect she intended. Grateful for small mercies perhaps)

Anyway, I think that's enough of an essay. Don't want to make you all sick of me before I even get settled in! I really wish I wasn't here though - no offense intended of course.

Welcome imnot and sorry for your losses x There are many ladies on here that had a similar experience trying for a sibling after having a straight forward first pregnancy to only find problems (me included) there's lots of good advice on here so hope you find it of help x

Welcome imnot. I am so sorry for your losses.

Chemical pregnancies are no different to any other miscarriage. They happen at such an early stage that they couldn't be detected on a scan but only by the hormonal (chemical) changes in your body, hence the name but as far as I know the nhs doesn't classify them any differently. I have had one chemical pregnancy and two mmc but was still entitled to tests on the basis I had three miscarriages.

One thing that struck me about your post was that you were prescribed aspirin on the basis it couldn't hurt
In fact the latest evidence is that it can affect implantation so it may not be a good idea to take it unless you have a diagnosed clotting disorder.

I have a similar history to you with early and relatively straightforward mcs which have happened naturally and tests came back normal. I have since been diagnosed with pcos and personally think it has been hormonal problems thay have caused a failure to implant properly. Problem is there doesn't seem to be an easy fix (you may wish to scroll back through recent posts to read our various experiences of progesterone) but I am currently 8 weeks pregnant and so far so good.

Others on the thread will be able to tell you about nk cell testing which you may wish to consider, though this is not currently available on the nhs.

You have come to the right place for knowledge and support. This thread has been a lifesaver for me.

Oh btw, feel a bit silly but was lying awake doing some mental calculations and realise I got my dates totally wrong last cycle and I actually got my faint positive test on CD36, not 43 as I thought so I am not measuring behind for dates at all- in fact the agnus castus May have brought ov forward a few days. Trying not to get my hopes up too much though even though I have passed my personal danger zone. Goodness knows there's enough evidence on here that things can still go wrong.

Welcome imnot. So sorry to hear about your losses. What a horrendous year you've had. I'm also a relative newbie here and everyone had been brilliantly supportive. Would have really struggled the last week without reading this board. I can't offer much advice on the testing etc, as I've not started all that yet (just got my appointment through today and it's not till 19th December. Humph. Was really hoping it would be sooner).

Your situation is somewhat similar to mine in that it sounds like we both had a blissfully simple first pregnancy. I'm certainly thankful for that now, but it does make for a bit of a shock when this starts happening.

Yesterday, I read the interviews with profs brosens and quenby, posted jan 13 i think. I'm sure this is old news for all the people who have been here longer, but I found this very interesting. (Anyone with better understanding, please correct me if I've got this wrong)
It talked about the fact that when the uterus is properly prepared then it is both receptive to the embryos but also selective, so that it rejects any embryos that are no good. In some women with rmc, it appears that they are super receptive but not selective enough, so these women find it very easy to get pregnant but struggle to hold on to them (presumably because they are unsuitable embryos). This really made sense to me for my situation, although of course having not had the tests yet, it might not be my problem. Interesting nonetheless. Have I interpreted that correctly?

Sorry and welcome imnot, I'm sure you'll find answers and support here. Much of the terminology isn't great, is it?

So. spotting today on CD 26, so now down from 32 to 28 to 26 days.... I'm now trying to rearrange my hsg to get it done ahead of next ov... stoopid body.
Waves to all. x

Hello imnot, sorry for your losses, you must be reeling from 5 mc so close together. Glad you found us. I echo what longest says about the terminology of chemical pregnancy and the aspirin issue.

I have just had my NK cell levels tested in the implantation clinic in Coventry, run by Profs Brosens and Quenby. My history is 1 DS with no trouble, then 4 successive losses, though all at a varying stage of development/weeks. I have also been labeled as 'unlucky' by my RMC. Many of us on here have looked into NK cells as a next step.

The theory is that all women have intra-uterine natural killer cells, but some women have particularly high numbers of them. They are a type of white blood cell, and part of the immune system. Where high levels are found, it is thought to be the result of an inflammatory process in the uterine lining, which is detrimental to a developing embryo. Their protocol is progesterone and clexane to optimise the uterine lining, and steroids (prednisolone) if you have high NK cells, which dampens the inflammatory response. I am still waiting for results. The clinic in Coventry has NHS funding, but you still need to go as a private patient, so its £360 for a consultation and biopsy of the lining, and a follow up telephone consultation with the results.

Tell me if I got any of that wrong, everyone else!

longest hooray for your wonky calculation!

Just how frustrating that your cycle is messing about. Any idea what's going on there?

nobody wants to be here, but if you have to be, the support is fantastic.

When is an evap line not an evap line. Will purchase an expensive test and update later. Maybe it was ib... but the test was checked half an hour later... but the line is clear enough. Bollocks. And maybe yay. But probably an evap line...

Ooooh just will cross everything!

Oooohh, just! Get a FRER! Waiting for an update...

Bloody hell Just! Ineedtoknownow!!!!!!

just crossing everything....

Sorry imnot I got distracted by Just! Welcome.

Your history sounds almost identical to mine. Two DCSs, very ordinary and straightforward pregnancies, last one born on Feb 2012. Five miscarriages, four early, one missed. Anyone who calls any of them a CP will get dagger eyes from me.

I often had very low hcg, so slow increase in hpt lines, and empty sacs developing only to MC later. I had a barrage of standard NHS tests and was prescribed progesterone and aspirin (no harm) until I had a potential clotting issue, which wasn't, and was prescribed heparin by my consultant.

By then I was exhausted, scared and depressed. I decided to throw everything at this last one as I felt I only had the energy for one more go.

I saw Prof Brosens at Coventry, who did a uterine biopsy for NK cells. They came back as normal, but in the meantime I conceived again, and with treatment am currently 20 weeks with a healthy baby. Still petrified, but very happy!

As mentioned yesterday, there is some interesting research into selectivity, and I certainly see myself in that field. I am super-fertile, and from your history, sounds like you are too.

I'm also old, at 42 really pushing it to the limit, as are quite a few of us here, and as everyone else has said, the support here is fantastic. I've been through three of my MCs on these pages, and my current pg, and the support is unwavering. I definitely second the need for that emoticon Baking!

Sorry, that was an essay back, and still only a very very potted version! Please feel free to ask us questions, we hold a great deal of collective knowledge.

Just!!! Fwiw I have never had a true evap line. They have always developed into something in the end. Fx!