lost 4 babies and am completely lost

[aMuminwaiting]

I went with my DH for my routine 12 week scan on Monday. The baby had died four weeks earlier and they sent me for a D&C. Every time we lose a baby it's like being in a nightmare that we can't wake up from. Our first was almost 22 weeks and I had a prem labour in hospital. I was alone because they'd sent my husband home to fetch me some books and things. They didn't even warn him when he got back that our dead son would be laying next to me. The next baby I lost at home at 11 weeks. My DH took him/her into the hospital thinking they would do testing as my first miscarriage was so late. We found out a week later that the form they got him to sign in his grief ridden fog wasn't for testing it was for them to dispose of the baby. The next baby was miscarried at my parents house at 7 weeks. This time my Aunt was staying with us so she took control and told the hospital that this baby had to be sent to Guys for testing and even had to tell them how to store it because the doctor on the phone told me to stick in the freezer until Monday! My DH and I were karyotyped. We were told our results would take four weeks and the babies about seven weeks. 15 weeks later and we still have no results. Straight after losing our third baby I got pregnant with our fourth. I was put on aspirin and cyclogest pesseries. I felt more sick than ever and had no bleeding at all. We thought this was going to be it at last until Monday sent us crashing down to earth. The anesthetist and a surgeon had separately come to speak to me about the procedure many hours before I went in and I'd told them both that the results from my third baby had clearly been lost in the system so please test this baby and not make this life a complete waste too. Just before they knocked me out in theatre I said "please tell me you're going to test this baby" and she said "oh no one's mentioned that". Yesterday my husband spent hours trying to get through to the consultant who had taken over from the one we saw last year. All he got was answer machines. I've been trying for 15 weeks and all I've ever got is put through to an answer machine and never called back. I've never felt so invisible. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. We won't try again because it seems pointless at this stage to keep making lives that will never make it. At the same time this need to be parents is tearing us both apart. We are so alone and no one will help us.

Amuminwaiting - very sorry for your losses. these pregnancies take their toll on the body.

I had three miscarriages, had karotyping with the last one, it had abnormalities, I was sent to recurrent miscarriage clinic at kings. They did loads of tests, genetic counselling and bloods, scans etc found nothing wrong and put it down to age / chance.

I have now got two lovely boys. I found success with Sarah Dobbyns fertility diet - both me and dh did it, fairly religiously but not obsessively.

I also had refelxolgy with a wonderful woman called Debbie Linger at the jeryani clinic in st johns wood / south woodford - she is brilliant for preparing a relaxed, healthy body.

Give yourself time to recover and think positive - that is the only way to think in this situation

I know someone who had 6 mcs and then had a lovely healthy boy.

and there was someone on here who announced a baby after 15 mcs iirc

Thanks everyone. Feeling more positive already. I read a womans blog on a recurrent miscarriage site who had five miscarriages and then had a full term baby. She said the odds are favourable even if you keep miscarrying that you will eventually have a baby. She was seeing a specialist who told her not to get pregnant while having treatment but she was already seven weeks pregnant then and thought she'd have to wait out another miscarriage but the pregnancy went perfectly. Her consultant said maybe it just took her body that many pregnancies to realise it wasn't supposed to kill them off.
My DH seems to have found a way to stop me getting pregnant before my consultation anyway...he's given his damn bug! My throat is killing me along with my head (which to be fair to him has been killing me for a while) and my body feels like its shut down. Great. Well off to walk the dog and then get on with work. Wish I could lay on the sofa and say things like "doesn't ice cream help with a sore throat?" or "I don't feel well can I have a cuddle?". If I ever get to be a mum then I think he's already given me great training. Wouldn't change him though.

I've been reading about immune system deficiencies. As I have IBS and psoriasis, both of which are immune system disorders I figure this could be the answer to my miscarriages. I also had a complete placental abruption with my first baby which is common in this type of fertility problem. Does anyone out there have this and are being treated for it? Any information from women who have actually been there (especially who eventually had successful pregnancies) would be a great help. I want to be armed with as much information as possible for my appointment.

hello again! I also have Ibs and psoriasis. I have been tested for my immunity tested and am on Mr Shehata's programme as I said before. I meant to ask about any link but forgot x

Wow, so is the immune system disorder the same thing as NK cells or are they two different things?

Immune disorders refer to a whole raft of things. So, for me, the fact that I have hypothyroidism and tested positive for anti-nuclear antibodies (nhs) made me want to see a specialist who looked at immune disorders as a cause of recurrent miscarriage (as opposed to clotting disorders, as I showed no signs of that). Then, private testing which found a high level of NK cells, which are a normal part of your immune system but can (the theory goes) go into overdrive with some women and attack a developing pregnancy.

I was looking up anti-nuclear antibodies tests and that's what these use to determine if you have lupus. My old GP said I was tested for lupus after my second miscarriage and it was negative. I think I'm going to have to try and order my medical notes on all the tests I've had to see what they've done and haven't done. Am more than slightly confused right now. Every time I think I've found an answer it turns out I haven't!

I don't have lupus, but I have ANA. I'm not sure if the lupus test rules out having the abtibodies. You could get an appt just to ask for all the info on former tests.

It's another thing on my ever growing list to ask when I get my appointment. Has anyone else read this? I found it today when I was trying to find something to give me a boost. I cried when I saw she'd had her baby at the end of it all.
dreamyouremine.wordpress.com/2008/04/

Firstly I am very sorry for your sad losses. I have lost 7 babies but have gone on to have 3 wonderful dcs so never give up hope! I had an abnormal pregnancy followed by losing my first dc at 24 weeks-due to weak cervix. I then went on to have my second dc thanks to having a cervical stitch. After that I lost 3 babies in succession-12,28 and 19 weeks.
I was the tested for various things as tests on the babies suggested some sort of blood clotting disorder. I was told tests turned out negative but later found out that I had in fact tested positive for lupus!
Some of these tests can give false negatives and need to be repeated-I would certainly think that it would be worth while testing for lupus again.
All the best.

Thanks so much for telling me that. I will ask for the tests to be done again. They probably would anyway as I'm at a new hospital but I'll make sure! A stitch was suggested for my second pregnancy due to the way I lost my first but I never got that far sadly. I seem to be stuck at first trimester mc's now.
You say abnormal pregnancy, was that like mine that you had heavy bleeds before premature labour?
Thanks so much for giving me hope. Have been a bit wobbly today. Did your GP do the tests for you? My last GP did but at my new surgery my GP won't do anything and just told me to wait for the consultant appointment. But I'm sure she'll just tell me to go to my surgery. Anything that saves time has got to be good.

Op-the abnormal pregnancy I had was a molar pregnancy-or hydatidiform mole to give it its proper name! I had further complications after that which meant I had to have 6 months of high dose chemo but again I was still able to go on and have children

I had all my care and tests done at hospital-all antenatal appointments there etc. As a lot of them knew me from the molar pregnancy-they arranged for me to go to london for the treatment-it was easier for me to do it like that. I would ask your gp to refer you to a fetal medicine expert. I was lucky in that consultant who had dealt with my weak cervix was the expert at the hospital-and I simply couldnt have been in better hands.

I realise as am writing this that I sound very together and sorted-believe me I havent always been like this! I do remember very well being in a bad,bad place. Was incredibly angry so -please dont feel bad if you have any issues in that area!

Sending all the best for a happy otucome for you.

Well the evil MIL went to my DH's work again today to ask if we are going to his brothers babies christening at the weekend. Last time we saw his parents I was pregnant (well thought the baby was alive in there anyway) and said we didn't want to go because we didn't need any situations that would cause us stress. His parents never listen though and his dad said "we'll say yes then unless you aren't well". He means having a miscarriage, why after all this time can he not just say it?! I don't have flu or a tummy bug, it's a tad more serious, my babies die. Anyway, I have since lost baby number four and am still having trouble with my bladder and bowel since the d&c so we stupidly thought they'd get that we weren't going. When he said no we're not, she just looked at him and said "shame on you both". I feel such contempt for the woman. DH was so angry. I can't understand how such horrible people made such a wonderful man.

shame on you both? What a truely evil thing to say :( You and your DH look after yourselves. Sod what anyone else thinks. You don't feel up to going, so don't go. If they can't deal with that then that is there problem not yours.

thanks batteryhen. Shame is the right word for her to use because it's how she's always made me feel. "What should you do differently this time?" etc etc, I've always been made to feel I did something wrong when I couldn't have done more right.
I kept worrying that maybe it was something we had to force ourselves to endure but to my surprise and relief EVERYONE else in our lives have not thought that (other than his horrible brood). You know DH was so upset yesterday and told me that his brother called when his baby was born to laugh at him for winning the baby race! Seriously. Our choice to try for a baby was after six years together in a loving relationship and we wanted a child more than anything not because we wanted to compete! It proves to me that his family never saw our babies as lives, they were and still are nothing to them. I hoped we could remain in contact for DH's sake but he said last night he has no family anymore, not with them anyway. It's me, him, the dog, our best friend who always keeps us going and my family. We're fully prepared to embark on this journey of testing and hoping for a 'correctable' problem without them. It will be easier without them constantly on our backs.
Last night I dreamt my mum and dad had a baby but gave it to DH and I to look after. He looked just like my first baby Archie. I feel in this moment in time that I will never get further than that. I always pictured him when I thought about giving birth with my other pregnancies and now all I see is me holding him in my arms and wishing I could do anything to make him breathe.
COME ON 11TH!!!...I need a plan of action to keep me going.

and thanks for sharing all that pink4ever, sounds horrendous...actually even that word doesn;t sound enough to cover it. I have all the details for the London clinic now and am going to see what the consultant here comes up with before I decide to take the plunge or not.

muminwaiting-I hope that you get some answers. But even if you dont get a medical explanation please hold on to the fact that the chances of you having a successful pregnancy are still very,very good.

Yes I had hard times but to be honest a lot of it seems like it happened to someone else now!-iyswim!.

You will be successful. Keep us updated if you can.

Yes, good luck amuminwaiting - it sounds like you are very unlucky to have not only had such terrible experiences losing your babies but not to have a supportive family for in-laws.

Sadly, there are just some people out there that have no empathy of how horrific this situation must be for you. My husband and I never told my in-laws about our issues (I felt too private about it at the time and they aren't too good with emotional stuff although lovely) but I would have been raging if I had been treated that way.

But with any luck, you will overcome all the awful things that have happened to you. And feel sorry for your MIL - she is missing the chance to support HER baby when he needs her most. My mum would be devastated not to support me, just as I would be for my child.

Good luck with the appointment and don't let thoughtless people get you down.

Thanks, was feeling quite up beat yesterday then on way home from hectic day I felt my eye burning. When I got in the blood vessels had burst and I look like I've been in a fight. The last time this happened was the first Christmas after my sister died. I just want to sleep and sleep today. Do you think this is the bodies way of saying slow down and deal with things? Kept waking up all night having nightmares about this damned Christening. My mum showed me the photos of my brothers babies Christening a few weeks ago. They didn't make DH and I go AND they don't think badly of us. Our families are chalk and cheese.
Going to eat some cheesecake and have a sleep!

muminwaiting-you do sound as if you are stressed. Perfectly understandable. I totally understand your feelings about families-I have had some difficult times with mine.

When I was pregnant with my 1st ds-who lived briefly-a close family member anounced they were pregnant with their 2nd while I was in hospital battling to keep my ds alive. I then had a complete melt down on xmas that year as they and new baby were invited-my family were not that helpful and basically said I ruined xmas for everyone! I actually cut myself off from all of them for a few months as this is what I felt I needed to recover.

Dont let others make you feel guilty-at the moment you and your dh just need to do what you can to help get through each day. Stuff everyone else.

I can sympathise with your mil problems as I have had a few of my own! My mil only evers achknowledges our ds that lived briefly-the 2 that were stillborn are never mentioned

Please feel free to pm me if you feel the need to rant!

My MIL does that too. She doesn't mention any of my babies EVER but she came to our first babies ceremony and held him in the hospital so I think he 'counted' as it were. The others were only fetus's therefore not important at all. The other day before she told my husband that we should be ashamed of ourselves she said "so how's she really?" about me and DH said "we're both struggling" and she responded with "you both need to just get on with it". If she actually cares so little about how we're doing then why bother to even ask?! I'm so fed up of worrying that people will think we're ruining things for them. I know we're amazing and everything but I don't think any event hinges on us being there. We're generally ignored anyway and my husband is only invites to his families bbq's so he can dot he cooking. I said out loud "your family" to him the other day, meaning me, him and our dog and it felt nice. We are a family. We'd love more than anything for it to include a baby one day but I hate how everyone thinks that family needs to be more than husband and wife. We've got our dog and our best friend who never fails to be there for us so it's unorthadox perhaps but a family nonetheless.
Christmas is a major stress event isn't it?! I can see why you had a meltdown. The pressure is crazy and to expect anyone to sit through roast dinner and the queens bloody speech with a baby there when all you must have been thinking was "I should have my baby with me now" is just cruel. I was going through my cards the other day (I only keep ones I really like) and my DH had made me a Christmas card (it was rude so won't go into details of image) but he wrote, looking forward to next Christmas, the first as a mum and dad. Obviously I burst into tears. I know life shouldn't be filled with what ifs and I should be doing this now. But sometimes you can't stop it.

muminwaiting-you and dh sound like an amazing couple. You are very lucky to have each other-hold on to that in the bad times. Sadly dh and I have struggled to deal with our losses together. He takes very much the same view as his family-ie pretend it never happened.

I do understand why they do it as they suffered a horrible loss-dh lost a brother as a child-and it is something they never really discuss. Actually their view rubbed off on me for a long time and I only ever talked aobut my losses to my immediate family and a handful of friends.

Nowadays I am far more open but people are still often surprised if the topic of msc/pregnancy loss comes up to hear of my experiences. I come across as quite an upbeat/confident person-am good actress!-but I do remember the dark times only too well.

I found what helped me to connect with my family again was I wrote my mum and sister a letter explaining exactly how I felt-was very honest even if I knew it might upset them-for example I told them that seeing pregnant family members,babies was like a dagger to my heart and that expecting me to just sit there and plaster on a fake smile was unrealistic.

This actually really helped as when I subsequently went on to lose my other sons both my mum and sister were there for me far more emotionally-although I am a private person so do struggle to let people "help" as such.

Sorry feel as if am really hijacking your thread!-apologies-but perhaps a letter/email to inlaws explaining how you and dh feel might help them understand a bit more?.

Hi, amum, just wanted to say hello and say that you are not invisible, nor alone my love.
Ive has 6 mcs all together, and could have written some of your experiences myself.
Mine were all early but i have been treated appaulingly like you on each occasion.
I have never got any answers. This is because, simply, no one knows why.
I have had every test that is possible, and have now been told that there are no more tests available to me now. Everything has come back as normal.
I have never had my babies examined, becuase my treatement has always been so poor in hospital, they just disposed of them.

I have been reffered to Liverpool reoccuring mc clinic BUT only after i had supposedly been under a Gynea consultant at my local hospital. In the 18 months was going there, i never saw the consultant once, always his juniors who didnt have a clue what they were doing.
I went to my GP and asked him to refer me to Liverpool, which he did.
They admitted in the end, that they had no idea why this kept happening, but that i should keep on trying.
I had asprin & hormone injections with my last pregnancy, and it still ended at 7 weeks. I had such hope for that.
No one will tell you to stop trying. It having the balls to keep going until you finally get your little one.
They told me that they had a lady who was 45, had experienced 21 mcs, and had just given birth to a baby girl........OMFG! SO keep going gigglepin.

Hmmmm thats also true of my family, no one mentions my mcs, its as none ofit has ever happened.
After dh told PIL i was in hospital having another mc, they said "what again?"

no phone cal, no how are you, anything we can do...nothing. They live 10 minutes away from us.