Chance of investigations after 2 MC?

[Decaff]

Hi ladies,
I found these boards invaluable after my first MC in August 2009 and am now back seeking more support and advice after my 2nd MC. My first MC was at 11+5 and this latest one (having an ERPC on Wednesday as it's not going anywhere on its own it seems) was at 10 weeks, but baby stopped growing at 9+1 - the day after a perfect scan, same as last time.

I am so so so lucky to have an amazing 3 year old DD so this was my third pregnancy. I know that 2 MC in a row usually doesn't warrant investigation, but my reason for looking for some answers is that I get horrendous hyperemesis when pregnant. This was therefore my third bout of it and i find it so difficult to cope with mentally and physically to end up with nothing at the other side - twice now.

I dread putting myself through this again if there is a possibility that something is going on that may require treatment which could have a positive effect on the outcome. Sooooooo after this mammoth post has anyone had any luck with pushing for testing after two MC? It took us over a year to conceive the latest pregnancy and we had been referred to the fertility clinic so I had a laparoscopy and hydrotubation which showed no problems. Although I am very nervous about having another ERPC as I know this can cause problems with adhesions etc. but don't feel I have a choice as my body seems determined to hold on to this pregnancy. I am 35 this month BTW.

Thanks for ploughing on and reading this!

I k ow

Apologies for shoddy typing - I am not great at working my IPhone!

Sorry for your loss. I have also had two and asked if they would test me ... I was very very upset, have no dc and am forty two, and told gp thati am worried for
my mental wellbeing If I can't at least try to
find out why.. And am now being investigated. I wonder if the fact that you have had a dc already
might weaken your case or if you are relatively young, but it's with a go. Good luck.

Sorry for your loss. I have also had two and asked if they would test me ... I was very very upset, have no dc and am forty two, and told gp thati am worried for
my mental wellbeing If I can't at least try to
find out why.. And am now being investigated. I wonder if the fact that you have had a dc already
might weaken your case or if you are relatively young, but it's with a go. Good luck.

Worth a go I mean.

Thanks hairy. Sorry you've gone through this too.

Can you have recurrent MC tests done privately? I am in Scotland so not sure if the private fertility clinics would be my best bet, or if they even offer this type of testing. Is the first step blood testing for hormone levels and clotting issues? Before I got pregnant they were going to check my hormone levels as they thought there might be an issue there. Because I've been pregnant again though I lose my 'place' at the fertility clinic.

I wasn't offered a consultant appointment after my last MC but am going to ask for it this time just to try and get a bit of understanding about it all. I wonder if they will even give me that??

All I know about this whole thing is how bloody soul destroying it all is.

You can have them done privately, yes, 'innermost secrets' in cardiff does the whole lot for about £1k.

I am saving for private IVF as I am too old for NHS treatment, so wanted to get as much as possible done on the NHS prior to this.

The first step, if you've been trying for a year and not getting pregnant is day 21 test and day 3 test - this gives some idea of your general fertility (ie: have you got hormone problems like pre-menopause).

The NICE guidelines also say after an ectopic, you should be offered a HSG (fallopian tube flush) as well as to rule out fertility problems, but again, I had to pay for this as the NHS didn't offer me one after my suspected ectopic.

The first step in terms of multiple MC is the clotting test stuff and autoimunne test.

I'm seeing the nhs consultant on Tuesday as a follow-up to the missed miscarriage - I was on the list already for a laparoscopy, but they are umming and ahing about whether that is necessary (as they seem to have x ray specs to say that my tube is no longer blocked, as I got pregnant ).

Basically i had suspected ectopic April (resolved in June) and a Missed miscarriage in November (had got pregnant in September).

I then had a failed ERPC (and failed medication) - and felt pretty traumatised about it.

As I'm forty two and don't have time to waste, I basically begged my GP to initiate multiple miscarriage testing, and they did the tests for immune issues and clotting issues, which I'll be discussing with the consultant (and Ive had the day 21 progesterone test with GP, and I'll be asking for the day 3 tests, as I am crapping myself and need the re-assurance!

Very best of luck.

Good luck!

Decaff, I asked my GP for help after two mc, and she agreed to refer me to an obstetrician. Before I saw her, I unfortunately had another mc, so I'm not sure what tests she would have agreed to run before, iyswim. There didn't seem to be any cut-and-dried reason why she couldn't help me, though. I'm in Scotland too, incidentally. I believe Edinburgh and Glasgow both have recurrent miscarriage clinics.

You should get one based on the fact that you are 35. I am 30 and had a long chat with my GP, who in the end refused to refer after 2 mc's because of my age. He did say if I was 35 or over he would refer me. I think it's worth a (double) appt with your GP to chat about it, esp as you get hyperemesis.

Decade, sorry for your loss.

I had 3 MMCs, the last aged 36. I had asked for investigations after the 2nd one because of my age. I was fully investigated by the NHS and no reason for my losses was found (although a genetic defect was found which had nothing to do with the MCs and knowing about it actually made me more anxious). As I said, I had another one, but then went on to have 4 DSs . All my tests were done via the Recurring MC Clinic - is there such a thing in your area?

There are different tests for recurring MCs and for fertility issues ie tubal patency can be assumed if you fall pregnant easily enough.

Good luck, I hope you find sympathetic specialists.
:)

Pacificdog
You had 4 DCs after that? What did you do differently, anything? Just wondering if you have an idea yourself of what made the difference (desperate).

Hi Decaff
I DO know a poster who was offered testing after 2MCs and she's in Scotland, and already has a child. (The great news was she got pg again before she could be tested and is quite far along now into 2nd trimester) I'll PM her and point her to your thread.

Hairy's already posted what I would have done about private testing (mine cost a bit more, nearer 1500 in total I think, but the carpets in reception were very swish... ). Mine have all come back negative, just bad luck, or my ancient eggs (am 42).

Good luck - it's shit isn't it? :(

Iffy, I did nothing different, nothing at all. After a fair bit of bad luck, I just got lucky I guess . I had another MMC between DS2 and 3 though.
Nobody was able to tell me why I always had missed MCs either - I dearly like to know the answer to that one...

I blame my geriatric eggs as well!
But then again, I had DS4 just a few weeks before my 44th birthday .

Just keep going and don't give up. It IS shit, but when you are successful, so worth it.

I think if you have MMCs it's cos you are a fabulous hostess and have a great womb...

Ha, I wish... If it was that good why did it not let all beans grow?? But thanks. We were v lucky in the end to have the family we had hoped for.

Coincidently, I also live in Scotland and found my care was excellent - physically and emotionally.

It depends on which hospital you are using. I found out after my 3rd m/c that the local hospital I used on this occassion offered testing after 2, the main city hospital after 3.
Ask ,you never know.
Best of luck

because sadly all the beans were not meant to be :(

Have one DS from 4pg so far, and three MMCs showed 11+6, 9, 10+1 week development. I just think those beans weren't strong enough, but the accommodation wasn't the problem.

Am heartened by your last DC being born just before 44... :)

I had 2 m/cs when I was 32/33 before going on to have 2 normal pregnancies. My GP referred me for investigation after the second one, it didn't reveal anything but gave me more confidence when I became pregnant again.

You have a DD so the good news is that you can get pregnant and stay pregnant . As others have said, keep going but we all know how shit it can be in the meantime. Take care of yourself

Ladies, thanks so much for all your replies. I have gained a lot of hope from them I have to say. Both about options for investigation and about getting and staying pregnant again.

I think I will ask for a Consultant appointment at my ERPC to discuss their thoughts as to whether I 'qualify' for investigation and, if not, source a recurrent MC clinic.

Hairy (different name but same hairy I assume??) you sound like you have had a shitty time. I am quite worried about the ERPC not doing all it should I have to admit. Thanks for the detail on preliminary testing.

Pacific your post gives me serious hope. I also wonder if it's 'just one of those things' and that investigations might cause more stress than they're worth but I suppose I kinda want to feel I am exhausting every avenue and giving us the best chance.

Jollster that sound promising. Thanks for PMing. And yes, it is seriously shit.

MrsBee your story also gives me hope. I'm just feeling a bit 'broken' just now and hearing good stuff can happen in the end does help.

I'm lying here just now being a bit mental and wondering if the sonographer made a mistake as I haven't had any bleeding and still have strong PG symptoms. I saw with my own eyes the lack of heartbeat though and she did have a good look (including an internal scan). The heartbeat was totally apparent the week before without any searching so I suppose I am just clutching at straws and this is just the nature of MMCs.

Decaff sorry for your loss. If you are in any doubt, could you not ask for another scan? If only to put your mind at ease. With my erpc it had shrunk and no heartbeat, so I felt 'happy' it was over and there was no chance of mistake or it being overlooked. You could always ask in a way that they would be giving you peace of mind, rather than don't trust the scan

I hope you're being well looked after and getting lots of RL support

This thread has given me more hope, it is heartening to hear so many success stories

decaff I tortured myself in the same way with my first MMC, but worse in a way because it was after the ERPC, and the whole thing had happened so fast. (scan on the Monday, appt at EPU on the Tues, ERPC on Weds). I used to lie awake thinking maybe they'd aborted a healthy baby :(. Like you had had no bleeding, and still felt sick and dog tired.

BUT I convinced myself that the sonographer took AGES to scan, he was clearly very experienced (this was at Kings), and he called a colleague in to rubber stamp. I think he looked for so long because the baby was about the right size (scan at 12+6, estimated that baby died at 11+6). My second MMC, I MC naturally, and by the 3rd one came along I sort of accepted the inevitable, and knew the sonographer would not find a HB - in fact I pre-empted it to make her job easier :(.

So I know what you're going through; and agree with Orange, if it helps you and your recovery you should ask for another scan.

Keep us posted how you're doing.

Decaff, hopy you are ok today.

The unit I attended always scanned a 2nd time just before the ERPC - I think as much to their as my reassurance they were doing the right thing. I always opted for ERPC - I just needed to be able to draw a line under that pregnancy and kind of consider whether or not I wanted to keep going IYKWIM.

My pregnancy symptoms also stayed until after the evacs - it is so upsetting, ins't it ? And I know pregnancy loss is always sad, no matter when it happens, but I am truly glad all my losses were around the 10 week mark: I cannot begin to imagine what women feel who miscarry late or have stillbirths and have milk coming in 3 days later - just does not bear thinking.

I would absolutely agree, ask for another scan and do what you are more comfortable with to make sure you have no regrets later on. A close friend of mine opted for expectant management as she felt she 'owed' it to her baby to 'deliver' naturally - she went on to have a daughter and still feels now that her decision was the right one for her at the time.

The other thing (and again, I know everybody is different): it helped me to think of my losses as lost pregnancies, not babies. A matter of semantics, I know, but to me that made if feel less harrowing. I also asked for the tissues to be examined and 3 of the 4 pregnancies had genetic problems (not one had the problem I carry though... - probably more to do with my geriatric status). It helped me to think that the MC was Natures way, yadda yaddy, I realise many women who miscarry find that though offensive (particulaly when voiced by others as a 'consolation'), but it helped me to be able to see it as part of how the universe is organised.

Oh, and every time I started thinking 'Why me?' I told myself 'Well, why bloody NOT you? What makes you so special?' - I do not have a very sympathetic subconscious ...

Good luck to everybody on this thread . I hope I've not offended anybody here.

Hi Decaff, sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Jolls pointed me in this direction, I was referred to the recurrent MC clinic after my 2nd MMC. My first was disocvered at my 12 week scan in the Princess Royal and my second at an 8 week scan at a local hopital - after having seen the baby with a HB at 6 weeks. If you need another scan ask away, you are entitled to that.

I had an ERPC both times and the first time round tortured myself the same way you and Jolls did that they had made a mistake. The second time at the local hospital in the central belt they offered another scan before the ERPC but I just couldn't face seeing the silent wee bean on the screen again and my head told my heart that there was no point.

I don't know if its because the MMCs were within about 6 months of each other, or because they just took pity on me, they did say that the policy was no investigations before 3 consecutive MCs. However, when I was being booked in for the ERPC the nurse went off then came to say they would refer me to the clinic.

I got a date exactly 8 weeks after the ERPC to atttend, however, in between times I recognised ov signs and had a cheeky shag - I just couldn't resist after TTC for the best part of a year. Then I was annoyed with myself thinking that i may have put another pregnancy in jeopardy because i couldn't wait for the tests. I found out I was pregnant the day before the appt at the recurrent MC clinic and attended and made my confession. They were only going to test for coagulation problems and lupis - which I was a bit disappointed with. I had convinced myself it was a hormonal problem as both beans had stopped developing around 7 weeks. In any case they refused to test me even at 4 weeks pregnant.

Happily, I have stayed pregnant and all is well at almost 23 weeks. I did things differently this time, kept taking Agnus Castus until 12 weeks, used progesterone cream and took extra vit B complex and zinc on top of pregnacare vits. I felt that this time I had nothing to lose and had to try something. I'll never know if that helped or if the little ones I lost were just not strong enough. Pacific makes a good point, I can see that now - but its hard to accept that when you're in the thick of it and just want your baby back.

Look after yourself, I can totally understand where you're coming from. I'll PM you with the details of the hospital I was at just in case you're in the same area. Hope everything works out for you and that you won't need the tests either, take care x

thanks Moo - you're a doll :) x

Thanks so much for taking the trouble to post your experience Moo. And thanks Jolls for asking :-) I think I need to be a bit more 'inquisitive' this time with the docs as last time I just kinda went along with it all and didn't question not even having a follow-up appointment. Think I was in shock when I think about it now TBH. It's so lovely to hear that you are now far into your pregnancy. I really do get heartened when I hear good news on these boards. I also don't think I could abstain whilst waiting for appointments either!

Pacific I have to admit that I find it easier thinking of my MCs as lost pregnancies rather than babies. I was talking to my DH about this last night and maybe it's a bit of a coping strategy, I don't know. Apologies from me too if this is offensive to anyone.

Orange I am lucky that I have an amazing DH to support me and friends and family who are being great. Have to admit that I've not let anyone other than Mum visit me yet though - just want to get ERPC out of the way first. Good to hear that you are heartened by this thread too.

Well I am due to go in for my ERPC tomorrow. On Monday i was all set to bully them into giving me another scan but I just couldn't work up the gumption do it... Pathetic emoticon?? I just feel so beat and worn out just now after 4 weeks of hyperemesis and then all the emotional shit to deal with too that I actually just couldn't bring myself to pick up the phone.

Thankfully I have started bleeding and cramping tonight which puts my mind at rest. Also in my heart of hearts I know I would just be looking at a lifeless screen again and don't think I could face it at the mo.

Thanks again for all your thoughts ladies - they're much appreciated.

Decaff so sorry for your loss and what you are going through today, glad to hear you have some good care and support

I just knew before my second scan it was all over due to the heavy bleeding and lack of symptoms. It was almost a relief it was over and I could start trying to deal with it and move forward

Will be thinking of you today x