eaten up with anger after second miscarriage

[sayitwithsam]

Hi
I'd like to know how those of you out there in the same boat have coped with anger issues after miscarriage/s.
I've just lost my second at 11 weeks and my first was in March at 21 weeks. My DH and I have been together for 8 years and have always wanted a baby together. We feel like we're being punished for something. It's harder this time around because when we lost our first we had trying again to focus on. This time around I'm taking a long time to heal physically because I picked up an infection at the hospital. We have requested some tests before we try again as well and of course that all gets organised at a snails pace. We are emotionally more fragile, we both fly from tears and just staring at the floor for hours to pure rage at all the people around us who are just floating through life on a fluffy cloud.
It's only because of mumsnet that I know so many people are going through terrible things every day. That's not the case with our friends and family, only one friend has stayed in contact with us. We were told today that my inlaws won;t be spending Christmas with us because my DHs brother and wife of one month want to go to them instead, also she is now expecting. DH is so broken up and his mum doesn't understand how we can't be doing cartwheels because we are not coping with our own lives. The attitude is that our babies are gone and we should get over it and not be so damn miserable. We are both so depressed that if it wasn't for loving each other so much we would have ended it all. May sound melodramatic but neither of us can visualise our future anymore. We're seeing the GP to ask for some counselling because we can't keep on like this.
I don't know what I want to hear...just that there is a light at the end of this ever expanding tunnel.

Didn't want to read and not post. I am so very sorry for your losses. You have every right to be angry, especially at your family. I agree that going for counselling is the best way forward and also medical testing to rule out any obvious reasons for your losses. Take care.

oh goodness, you poor things. this sounds really awful. first of all, did you find out what caused your loss at 21 weeks? that really is a very late miscarriage and i am sure the hospital must have carried out a lot of tests to see if they could find any cause? the reason i ask is i'm not clear (and maybe you aren't either) whether there is any link to miscarriage no2, which obviously happened, mercifully, a lot earlier this time?
it may be that the second miscarriage really was a 'freak' piece of bad luck but a loss at 21 weeks is likely to have been easier to find a cause for. you definitely need answers now.
i don't have any specific advice, except that you will get through this - somehow. the days immediately after a MC are just indescribably awful; and then perhaps you'll feel better for a few weeks; and then it will come back and hit you again like a truck - don't be surprised. if you have the strength, focus on finding out why this has happened; and then devise a plan of action with the doctors, for trying again. if you don't have the strength to contemplate trying again just now, just concentrate on getting through each day, one at a time. do whatever it takes - eat chocolate; go to the movies; curl up under the duvet - just get by. Slowly the cloud will lift enough for you to look forward.
i had four miscarriages in a row (fortunately none at a late stage like you) and found the experience utterly devastating. but i am now 31 weeks pregnant. even when the odds seem hopelessly stacked against you, remember,you can beat them.

I am so very sorry for your losses. I don't know what to say except that I know that anger you speak of.

I feel incredibly angry at my two MCs, angry that my body takes so long to recover each time, angry that everyone just carries on like normal, angry that everyone seems to be pregnant, angry at bloody everything. Or crying, in fact I was doing better as I have finally stopped bleeding but then I have had a crap day (another pregnancy announcement).

I was feeling devastated and virtually unable to do anything so about a month ago I went to the GP for counselling, finally I have an assessment on friday so I would definitely suggest you go to your GPs asap.

I am sorry you and your DH are having such a tough time and that his parents are not being very supportive, people who haven't been through it just don't know how awful it is. A loss at 21 weeks must have been dreadful as one at 12 is bad enough. I don't think you are being melodramatic at all, you are grieving the loss of you babies. I hope that the tests help you discover a reason behind your MCs and I hope that it all works out in the future. In the mean time I hope you get counselling very soon. Take care xxxx

Sayit - I've had 2 losses, first at 17 weeks second at 18 weeks, both for totally unrelated reasons, both down to "bad luck", and like you within a short time frame - about 9 months. We did the same - basically had IVF as soon as we could after the first loss and focussed on that and that got us through the loss. Now there is nothing to focus on apart from the grief.

I don't know why I'm posting really as I have nothing cheerful to say - I have turned into a bitter angry person. The anger is overwhelming. I have been told I should be over it by now as the last loss was over 6 months ago. We don't see our friends anymore. I too feel like I'm being punished or that I am cursed. And I agree - if it wasn't for my DD I think I would have ended it all. I actually think in retrospect we should have waited longer to have treatment and grieved the first boy but we didn't - I imagine you're in the same boat - you're dealing with both losses again.

Sorry - not really offering light at all but just that your'e not alone.

So sorry to hear of your losses. You have every right to be angry. I have recently had my third miscarriage and my moods swing from wallowing self-pity to frustrated anger. It's a natural part of the grieving process. My local epu put me in touch with the miscarriage counsellor. I didn't have to go through my GP. I have my first session next week.
I need to feel like I'm doing 'something' to move forwards while waiting for the bloody slow nhs tests that will take up to 6 months to get the results on. So we're planning nights away. I'm exercising. I'm having acupuncture to get my cycles on track for when we do start ttc again. Planning get togethers with childless friends.
Have you spoken to any friends about this? I've found that actually the most sympathetic friends are ones with children as they understand what's missing.

As well as looking into counselling, maybe you and your dh could go on holiday this Christmas? Get well away from family if they're not being supportive.

But do be kind to yourselves.

Hi, I'm so sorry for your losses, and that you and your DH are feeling so wretched.

I have had 4 MCs (2 of them very early, but the other 2 at 9w and 17w). It is a terrible, terrible loss. The grief is very real, and I was lucky to have family and friends who understood that, and cried with me.

You sound like you both need support - perhaps counselling would be good.

I wanted to post to say please don't lose heart. I have 2 DC now (first was conceived after the 1st MC, then the 2nd one conceived after the other 3 MC).

It is very, very likely that you will go on to have succesful pregnancies. You will never forget the ones you lost, but the pain will lessen, I promsise.

Best of luck to you both.

Thank you all for sharing. I hate that you are all in pain but thankful to have people actually understand rather than say they do and then skip off.
sotough I had ten blood tests and the placenta was sent away for analysis after my 21 week loss. Everything came back normal. We could not cope with our baby being tested which in hindsight was a mistake because now we'll never have an answer but the medical staff advised us not to as he was 'perfect'. I lost our second at home and my DH took the baby in to hospital that night. We thought they would do a test and then we could have a service quickly like the time before. They didn't explain that 11 weeks was too early for testing and that the form he was signing was for them to take the baby and cremate it. After a panic visit to the hospital chaplain we've been told the baby hasn't been cremated yet. It's all so hard and there is no practical information for when things go wrong, only for things going right.

peanuthead I'm so sorry you are struggling too. I feel exactly the same about trying again. We needed to focus on anything other than the gut wrenching pain of losing our son and I became obsessive about getting pregnant again as quickly as possible. It made sex a job to be done rather than something we used to enjoy. Now we've lost this baby too it's clear we didn't have enough grieving time. It feels like this year has been one long miscarriage.

KTDace the bloody announcements are relentless here too. Both times I've had friends pregnant at the same time as me. My friend from the first pregnancy has her bouncing baby boy and my friend this time has just announced on facebook that she's expecting twins. My DH's wife decided she wanted a baby when she'd got married and one month on, bingo! I don't want to be bitter. We've always had bad things happen to us and we've gritted our teeth and got on with life. This is different. This has the magnitude to finish us off and the worst thing is that we have no one to turn to which makes me just want to lash out. My DH was honest with his feelings and he has been reading emails tonight from his mum saying how we should be more considerate and that his words are hurtful! Our GP is the kindest and most understanding person we've spoken to. I think it's so sad that people we've known all our lives have just left us to it and people on here who I've never met have the time to speak to me.
So thank you to all of you.

Sam - people have no idea how much it hurts - but also they don't want to know how much it hurts - it's scarey for them - we become scary people to them as they might have to think about what we've been through.

No wisdom to impart but wanted to say sorry for your loss. I also mc in spring and am about to have erpc after misses miscarriage.

I have focussed very much on positive thinking and action ... Spending time walking or cycling outdoors helps me.

Biggest thing I've found is not to feel bad about feeling angry... so the lucky half of the planet thinks you should be the picture of calmness and serenity? Bollocks to that!

I've come to the conclusion that the anger is actually your mind's way of helping you to keep going - I know after my second loss this year, the only way I kept going for a good month or so (and still now really) WAS with that healthy dose of pissed off propelling me through the days.

I wasn't anywhere near as far along as you were - even with the saga of my last loss dragging on a bit - but I sympathise with your feelings that all the shit happens to you and your fella... I feel exactly the same as it about us two. I was also scared we wouldn't make it through the second loss - but the world's still turning and we're still together - I've come to the conclusion that we're actually the strong pair in our social circle, and I KNOW that most of our lucky lucky acquaintances would have crumbled by now after the shit life's hurled at us this year.

I also realise that people won't ever understand unless they've walked there - you're a reminder of that thing that they don't ever want to believe could happen to them, you're an automatic pissing on the parade of anyone newly pregnant - that's just the way it is. Some people keep it all hidden away - I'm quite open about it and I'll challenge some of the utter shite people come out with - but that's just me and my general wanting to rip the testicles off ignorance and insensitity and ram it down it's own throat attitude - I guess I'm naturally a fighter at it all. Doesn't mean my heart's not breaking - but I figure the anger's there to use and not to feel ashamed over. People are scared of miscarriage, moreso than of bereavement in general, because, to them (not to us) - it's such an abstract and intangible loss - in many cases no grave, no funeral, no grand goodbye and they don't understand how you grieve for your hopes and dreams, how you have to mentally recompose the future life you had planned out for yourself - and how utterly incessant the reminders of the human life cycle are for us.

My time of utter hell is still to come - my sister in law (one of those who live a charmed life and never know hurt or sadness it seems) is pregnant and due a couple of weeks before my second loss would have been... and she's the sort who WILL flaunt her mummyness for attention and adoration from her family. Thankfully my MIL's lost a baby herself (which again, is the only reason my dear husband exists in the world - I guess things do happen for a reason however shit they seem at a time) and she does at least have that sense of perspective of how painful it is for us.

I also hurl an awful lot of insults at the TV - that dippy bird with the baby in Lost that I'm working my way through on DVD at the moment (no clue what's going on with the plot of it) has taken quite a lot of the brunt of my anger! Oh and the gym - but mainly the bird from Lost.

Oh god I am so sorry that you DH's mother is being so dreadful. If that were me I would be withdrawing from her and thinking of a nice way to spend xmas, just the 2 of you, so I second the person who said to go on holiday. In fact we booked a very expensive holiday about a week after I started bleeding (it was on holiday sadly) and are off this weekend to somewhere hot. I can't wait it is all that has got me through the last 10 weeks, though I am worried about the come down when we get back but I will push that to the back of my mind for now. Also means I get 2 weeks break from pregnancy talk.

In fact I am so shocked at your MIL I want to shout at her myself - stupid insensitive woman!

I am so sorry.

emptyshell I had that realisation this morning. I was thinking about my brother inlaw and the shock he and his wife have coming to them when a baby comes into their lives. Her main ambition is to 'win' at everything. She saw her wedding as a way to get one over on her sister by making it more expensive and getting pregnant as a way to be the first to give a grandchild. She is very immature and I don't know how she'll cope when she brings a new life into the world. I was scared the first time I was pregnant because it is such an immense thing to decide to do but I knew that eight years of to be honest , crap, made my DH and I a real force to be reckoned with and that a baby would be our world, not an accessory.
You sound like someone I would really like emptyshell. I wish I could vent my anger to the people that deserve it more rather than bottle it up and make myself go mad.

I have been shouting abuse at Natalie Cassidy for a while now. Those bloody adverts where the voice over guy says "its bound to be a difficult". But is it?! No, she gets her baby, its not a hard hitting documentary on miscarriage , its a piece of pointless crap about someone who gets pregnant and has a baby. I'm also sick of the barage of clearblue adverts. They seem to have been stepping up their selling since I lost my first. I know the telly is not against me and it's no different from when my sister died and there was an advert about sorting out your will before you die because "you never know when it will happen". Well no TV that's true but she was only 34 so it's no frigging wonder she didn't know.

My DH has never liked his now sister-in-law so being all happy was never going to be easy for him. It's impossible now. But as the brothers only tend to communicate through texts and the occasional email he might be able to send something that is passable as congratulations. He is planting a little oak for our babies in a memorial park today. I'm so glad that no matter what anyone else thinks, we know they were important lives, no matter how brief and that their names will be on that tree long after we've gone.

I think you are all brilliant, brave, honest women. Mumsnet has kept me going this year. I really don't know what I would have done without it.

KTDace we are going away next weekend and can't wait. But as you said I'm worried about the come down afterwards. It's the one thing we've been looking forward to, well that and Christmas but I won't go into that again! Anyway, my mum has been doing everything she can to make a great Christmas this year and I will make the best of it for her. She's found it so hard the past two years because Christmas was a massive thing with my sister. No matter what we were all doing or what country we were in, we'd be together and so even if our boy had lived and this was his first Christmas there would still be someone missing. As my DH said, if you can't count on your family to rally around when you are going through living hell then you have no family.

I am really glad that your mum is being great and I am sorry to hear about your sister.

Glad to hear you are going away this weekend, I hope you enjoy it, both you and your DH.

Oh I've got the competitive sister in law as well - who I think started trying to get pregnant straight after my first miscarriage because she HAS to be the golden one who's first for everything, did similar with weddings (but my cake was better and bollocks - cake comes before all the sugared almonds and pointless flim flam in the world).

I've yelled at the clearblue digital woman as well... "can you afford to guess your pregnancy test result"... "yes, guessing's free, only a monkey would struggle with the concept of two lines yes, one line no, and it's usually bollocksing negative you silly poo." I also derive a sad amount of pleasure from adblocking all baby and bump photos on the Daily Mail website on a really stroppy day - it's kind of a Space Invaders can I block the baby pic before it loads on the screen!

Sorry, my humour may offend but the way I've always got through life is to see the absurdity in situations - and I've got a very dark sense of humour, to the point where, when they didn't know what was going on with my scans, I was like "hah! don't have a leaflet for that one do ya do ya do ya!" and proposing buying a "can anyone tell me what the fook is on board" car sticker in full on baby-on-board yellow.

Humour aside- I spent days and nights watching QVC as I needed something to go to sleep with and it was the only thing that wasn't going to bombard me with happy families and baby photos (and that flipping Clearblue woman... wonder if you could fit a pee stick in her smile sideways?). It's only in the last few weeks my agoraphobia/babyandbumpophobia has dropped to levels where I don't refuse to go out unless absolutely necessary.

Even if you DO like a relative - the pregnancy announcements are still hellish. Hubby, whose family is very close (my personal dislike of his sister's behaviour aside), got off the phone to his mother and I remember him utterly flatly and dejected saying to me, "you're right, she IS pregnant." My cousin had a baby purely to stay on benefits... I hate her so much for it.

I do think the anger is what's keeping me going though - I know the days I don't feel that fire inside me are the days I feel my outside crumbling if that makes sense so I think it's just life's way of getting you through it all. I know from talking to an older, wiser childless friend of mine that the pain is always there, the anger's always bubbling away at the injustice of it - but it fades and becomes part of who you are over time. At least then I guess the babies are real and live on in some kind of twisted way.

I sound like I've got the answers - I sooooo don't. I've sat sobbing on the bathroom floor, tablets in hand wanting to off myself to go and be with the children, me and hubby have collapsed sobbing in each other's arms over not even knowing if they were boys or girls, I still cry myself to sleep sometimes and shut my eyes when babies come on TV (and I turn over if proper ultrasounds - not that Clearblue malarky - come on the box) but I guess at least the habitual mard-arse stroppy beligerent side of me is reappearing and that it's actually positive!

It shreds you and people can be steaming knoblets basically. My very wonky cat sends a purr and her purrs can make everything feel just a little less ikky for a while (she thinks this is all great because she just gets lots of cuddles out of it all)!

Sam I am so sorry for your losses.

I lost my DS2 at 23 weeks last year. It was a terrible, terrible time and the only thing that got me through was the thought of being able to try again, as if somehow that would make it ok.

It was all consuming and when I fell pregnant again I though it was the answer to everything. I lost that baby very early and in some ways that loss was not painful I was resigned to it, but it did compound the grief of losing our son in a way that I had previously thought unimaginable.

The anger is normal and a healthy part of grief (so my counsellor insists!) and counselling can really help. But the biggest source of support has been Sands - please, please do get in touch with them because just being with other people that "get it" has been enormously helpful to me.

Try not to focus on other people - I know this is hard but it is so damaging. Everyone I know who has been through this (and depressingly there are a lot of us at sands) knows how it feels to obsess over other peoples lives, pregnancies and babies but things are rarely what they seem, people don't always share their own pain and suffering.

I am now 24 weeks pregnant and it has been a difficult pregnancy. I wish it was easier and whilst the pain gets more manageable it never goes away. I bought my first babygrow for this baby last week with tears in my eyes - when I told my sands friends every single one of them knew it was because I was thinking that is what I will bury her in...

emptyshell your post had the ability to make me laugh and then cry. nancydrewrocked I know you're right and getting angry with other people isn't healthy and hopefully I can move on from it (I can be a different person or a multitude of people on any given day) but for now I haven't the energy to fight it.

My aunt has been my role model through all this. She had several miscarriages and was eventually told that she and my uncle were incompatible. The ultimate slap in the face from mother nature as they are the most compatible couple I've ever met in every other respect. Not only did she watch my mum and aunt (who had never wanted children until she was told she'd need a hyesterectomy in the near future due to fibroids) but all of her friends and family her side have babies. You'd think that would be as bad as it could get but she is a midwife! She has to go to work every day and see tons of women who smoke, drink, take drugs and generally couldn't give a shit about the lives inside them. She has to help them as best she can and hope that these babies make it. I don't know how the woman finds the strength.

I hope you get through this pregnancy nancydrewrocked. I completely get your upset at buying something for your baby when in the back of your head you can't see it happening. I bought EVERYTHING when I was pregnant first time. And that only increased when I got past 14 weeks and was told "you're past the danger point now". I now know there is no "past the danger point". I didn't buy anything this time. Apart from after the baby died and I got a teddy bear to go next to his/her big brothers. I have two pictures on the mantel in my bedroom now that I kiss every day. Everyone wanted to see the photo of Archie because he was a baby, I mean he looked like a baby, it was ok for them. But as Elliot was only 11 weeks the baby was a fetus and no one wants to look at that. I took a photo before my DH took the baby to the hospital because our only scan was very crap and I knew I'd want to look at this baby every bit as much as the first. It may be weird, but I love Elliot as much as Archie and I want them both to know how important they are. I think that's where my anger stems from this time. I want to hurt people because they don't see Elliot as a life because he was so small. I personally don't think losing a baby late is worse than early. Your hopes and dreams for that baby are the same and your love is as intense. I look at them both and can see what could have been if luck was on our side. And I feel guilt for the fact that neither of them are alive. I know that is not my fault, its not any of our faults. But knowing something and stopping yourself from feeling it are two very different things.

Oh and I changed my nickname in case you were confused!

You will move on from it. Very slowly small steps at a time. Your grief is very raw at the moment and the pain intense, but it does change. You will never "get over it" or any of the other trite phrases people use but if it helps to know it will get easier to bear.

Re the anger I don't mean you shouldn't feel it, it is a natural stage and you certainly shouldn't feel like you have to hide it from anyone. I can remember going into town one day and walking around utterly bewildered whilst people strolled without a care in the world - I was desperate to scream at everyone: I've just burried my son.

I also totally understand what you are saying about people not seeing Elliot as a "baby". Most of my anger stemmed from people not seeing my DS as a baby, that somehow he didn't exist. For a long time I found myself dropping in details of what he weighed/how long my labour was/what we dressed him in just so people would have a tangiable thought on which they could hang the loss of my hopes on.

But ultimately those feelings only hurt me. Funnily enough on the occassions I have let rip I have felt terribly guilty about the hurt I have caused . Very, very few people want to see you upset - they are just trying to muddle through and deal with your grief as best they can, often with little understanding of how you must be feeling.

MY DH went to his GP to ask for some information on counselling. My GP has said several times that if we want it, it's there. But his said he had to take antidepressants for three weeks and then be reassessed.

My need to try again has surfaced already. But I haven't completely stopped bleeding yet (three weeks on Monday) let alone had a cycle yet, I've got antibiotics to take for the infection until tomorrow and they didn't tell me if I need to be re-examined when I finish them. You know that scene in the Truman show when he's trying to drive out of the town and everyone gets in his way so he's stuck? Well that's a metaphor for my life.

One very weird thing as well. I've had IBS since I can remember and am pretty much a bloated ball of air most days. Since this loss my stomach has been flat, my body doesn't feel heavy like it normally does and my tastes for foods has completely changed. It's so odd.

Seeing a gynecologist at the end of the month. I didn't have this last time. Has anyone else been refered to the gynecology team?

I don't know if it'll help - but I found temp charting helped save my sanity trying again after the first MC, just gave me some feelings of control and knowing what was going on with my innards - which I desperately needed then.

I've not seen a gynae - I've had an initial meeting with the recurrent miscarriage specialist to just take history and discuss initial ways forward/what to do if I get pregnant again - reassuring to know I'm in their system to be honest and that I WILL get early scans next time without having to fight my way through GPs and the like. (Thankfully they've picked me up after loss number 2 - possibly because of the close timescale... I don't know)

I did the same after my first. I think I drove my poor hubby made with the "what do you think this means" etc. I will do the charting again this time but I think I'll keep it to myself! It did make me feel more in tune with what was happening each month. It took six months for my temps to be steady and then I was pregnant again.

I keep hearing a lot of good things about aspirin. The tests I had for blood clotting came back as fine the first time though so they didn't give it to me. But my GP said the cause could be totally different this time so I may be given it next time. I spent days reading books and sifting through websites to get a list of tests I wanted, only to find that I've had most of them already.

I'm a sole trader, working stupid hours for peanuts all in the name of 'using my creativity'. I had a woman email me about wanting a refund on something she ordered because it wasn't the size she imagined and hadn't bothered to look at the exact measurements I put on the site. She was a total bitch about it and I just thought why do I bother? People only want to buy cheap mass produced crap from giant companies not something handmade which has taken many hours and a lot of hard work. I wanted to say, "you know what, I've seen my two babies cremated this year, I am the end of my tether and I only wish you were standing in front of me now rather than sending me a bitchy email so I could have the satisfaction of smacking you in the face" (which obviously I wouldn't but can only dream).
I think a career change is in order. Although I would probably want to kill someone in any job because let's face it, there's a lot of tossers out there.

Tomorrow it will be one year since I lost my baby at 18 weeks. No one other than DH and I remembers...not even my mum. And dh does not want to do anything to mark the day. When I actually told my mum about tomorrow being a year on, she looked extremely uncomfortable and mumbled something incoherent before changing the subject.

Everyone seems to be of the opinion that I should have moved on from the loss, and I'm being a miserable sod by dwelling on it. It should make me angry, but all I'm feeling is this incredible sadness and frustration that no one apart from me saw the baby as a real person who lost his life.

Never mind. I will have my own private memorial for my baby. I will light a candle at 10am when I birthed him stillborn, and make a generous donation to SANDS in his name.

I am so sorry. I don't know how you are coping with this all alone. Of course you would want to mark today and of course your baby was a real person. You created that life not matter how brief and you are not a miserable sod for honouring that.

My DH planted a tree for our babies, both of them. I know most people ffom our families and friends don't see our second baby as an actual baby but that life deserves to be remembered just as much.

Does your DH find it too painful to mark the day? Men are strange beasts, hard to read sometimes. He must be hurting too even if it's hidden away. It's too much to ask you to spend all day trying to understand other people's feeling though when you will no doubt be reliving the nightmare of giving birth knowing you have already lost your baby. I relive the labour with my first all the time too. The physical pain was so intense but I kept thinking if I could keep him inside just long enough for him to make it I would keep that pain for as long as needed.

Moving on doesn't mean forgetting and why should it? You loved your baby and that won't change. I ignore everyone who tells me "I'll get my baby" or "my time will come" "it will get easier" etc. My time did come, twice. I had my babies, I wanted them. It doesn't get easier, I just incorporate the pain into my life. I don't share things with people anymore because I know they have nothing helpful to say, all they do is make me angry. The only people who get it are on here, who are living with it too.

I went on to the sands site after losing Archie and added his name to their remembrance page. There's also a complany called letterfest who make these lovely engraved beach stones. I added one for Elliot a few weeks ago. I've mixed them in with ordinary beach stones. It's something you could put in the garden and only you would know what they are for. It would be private between you and your baby.

I know everyone on here understands just as much as you do that your baby was real. Lots of love to you.