i feel old before my time

[kelway]

for the last 6 years i have been so consumed with the desperation to try and have a second child that i really hadn't noticed that i think i have been perimenopausal for the last year at least, i feel a real fool. it is a while ago now that i have pretty much come to terms with the fact that i will never complete my family, i know i am lucky to have one child, i am 45, and it has suddenly occured to me that my phases of unexplained anxiety (stressed, the feeling that you have forgotten something important when you know you haven't but cannot control it), no night sweats but eratic periods ie one cycle 34 days, light when it comes, then come on 2 weeks later, heavier, sometimes a week before af comes light brown spotting, some times the af will drag on for a couple of weeks with very light spotting of red, only when you wipe after a wee, really depressing the realisation that your body is changing. i don't think i would be that bothered about it, not if it hadn;t wanted another child, this makes it so final, i feel really old and washed up. not sure if to go to dr, i assume it is age, i too have put weight on only on tummy and tops of legs, go to gym and live pretty healthily, feel really depressed, especially as everyone around me (school run bollocks) seems to be knocking them out like rabbits.

Hi kelway Your op chimed with me because I had to have a hysterectomy 2 years ago, after trying for years for another baby, when it was discovered that the cs scar from ds had somehow gone on to tie down and damage my womb. I was really upset, particularly as ds was asking constantly about brother/sister (and still does from time to time).

I think I have more or less come to terms with it but like any grief I think it will always be there to a certain extent. I went on the HRT immediately after the operation and although I don't have flushes I do feel as if i've aged a lot - I've put on a lot of weight as well. I must say I haven't experienced the 'happy' effect of HRT. Sorry to be a downer - other replies have shown it's not the same for everyone!

Earthymama - did you try more than one HRT before you found one that suited? Just wondered if it was like the pill and different types suit different women.

ladies ladiea please! initially i was a little surprised by the response i got from ew but i am a tough old bint and it went over my head, i am fine about it (now) but i appreciate your support, thanks very much. by the way, what is an 'OP'? made me laugh, like some kind of old age pentioner but without the 'A'?? (just kidding). i am of a depressive character sadly so for people like myself who are terrible worriers who have a dark side/way of thinking (as expressed in previous mails above) it has made it a little tougher with the impending bodily change but not for vanity reasons (said previously). When i become hormonal i become quite manic (fortunately however not constantly) but it can sometimes make me a TERRIBLE worrier ie i can become a terrible hypercondriac which if you are one you will know is NO laughing matter, terrifying. I actually have times when i really dislike myself even though outwardly i am quite successful and confident but still not crazy about myself, far from vain. I just don't like the idea i am halfway through my life and on (how i see it) 'the homeward stretch', what a terrible way of viewing life, i am spreading my joy to you all sorry xx

hi hellymelly, thanks for your response. to be honest, i had blood tests done recently for something else and all seemed ok although my fsh etc wasn't checked, i am in no hurry to get it checked again; i had it done a few years ago when ttc and it was too high then, i am guessing it would be through the roof now. funny, always told (by all the gyni's i have seen over the years) how my infertility is down to my age but out of all my friends i was the only one who could not achieve a single pregnancy in my 40's, i went from being super fertile late 30's to it disappearing over night when i hit 40. some friends even achieved a pregnancy at 44/46 without even ttc (and didn't particularly want it either, but kept it) which was hard when i was busy injecting myself daily to try and achieve the same thing. I am not happy having pumped various fertility drugs into my body over the years and have this awful fear that it might come back and bite me in the bum if you get my drift, i try not to think about it but desperate women do desperate things. i remember a religious women with 6 children that i used to see when my dd had ballet lessons. she used to rant on about how anti she was with people who had fertility treatment (i let slip when i had my first session), rich coming from her. i wanted her to see the faces of all the desperately unhappy people i met along the way, be it at fertility hospitals or in councelling sessions, the pain some people have had to live with (people with no children). i saw people that had they not have been with fertility issues would more than likely have been anti fertility themselves, they were sitting crying holding hands in the waiting rooms, i will always remember what i used to see very religious people but they have a longing just like her (women with 6). why am i talking about this? i have no idea, sorry, hormones and passion on this subject seem to just spring out without from nowhere. i am not going to have acupuncter as it brings back too many memories, wasted far too much money over the years on it and had far too many sessions. as for hrt, my take on it is quite simple, only go on it if i have to, women managed for centuries without it so will try and be like them UNLESS when it (meno') kicks in and i feel awful, then i will try it, for now i will not go to the drs, only if bleeding (next af) is really weird, i am scared of drs, always fear the worst. when i had last smear at marie stopes dr there recommended something for my hormonal side but said it also acted as a contraception, no way could i ever take anykind of contraception, i would rather suffer and risk a miracle baby!! it must be hard work for you having two young children at the age of 46? sorry you too feel down about it, us women, what physically we have had to deal with, i will miss my periods, sounds daft but they have been my friend over the years, i never dreaded them (only when ttc!!)

earthymama - thanks for your upbeat response! you have given me hope in hrt!! x
goldenbirdies - sorry to read your note re not having had a second child, how old is your ds? earthymama seems to have a 'good trip on the old hrt'! i know nothing about the damn things but possibly there is more than one type? point being, perhaps you have been paired off with the wrong kind?? i haven't had any night sweats....yet! i have just had to ask dh how old am i? i can't remember, 45 or 46, bless, he just skyped back, said i look 35 but i am actually 45. x

I am on HRT.
I have a superb gynae- and he said my lifestyle etc was great and nothing more I could do to try to stop the flushes etc. (I exercise a lot and eat very healthily, adding in foods that are good for crones!)

I had flushes roughly every hour which was awful as I work closely with men, and I was sleeping badly. Had no other symptoms - not emotionally or psychological.

After a week on HRT they had gone.

I use oestrogen gel which means I can adjust the dose easily and use the amount I need.

Not all drs will give you gel as a first choice but it seems to suit me and I have had no side effects at all-touch wood.

I'd advise anyone to try all self-help measures first including herbs, supplements, acupuncture maybe diet and exercise- then if your symptoms are really getting you down, try HRT. Short-term use- under 5 years- is not as risky as some might imagine from what's in the media.

Purplepeony and Monty - ah I see now. The Menopause thread requires sympathy only, unlike the AIBU threads in which one may disagree with the OP. Well stuff that for a game of marbles - this is Mumsnet Discussions, not Mumsnet Yesmaamnomaam3bagsfullmaam.

I am not hellbent on attacking Kelway, but would like to put forward the view that people should not have such high expectations. Maybe I should have expressed it more impersonally, Kelway, but you seem to have survived.

By the way Kelway, OP stands for Original Post or Original Poster. Pleased to hear your much more positive tone. You don't sound half so depressed now.

Pardon me for mentioning Irina the obscure Russian poet again, but this thread reminded me of the Soviet maltreatment of young female dissidents, which Irina describes, by putting them in "Shizo" which was solitary confinement with intense cold, hunger and dirt. A short time of that could rob a woman of her fertility and was much feared.
(Men were subjected to it too but without the same likelihood of fertility loss.)

"Reflect on everything but regret nothing" - that expresses exactly my point. And I am not telling every one how to be happy, just how not to be miserable. - By setting your heart on something you are unlikely to attain, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not saying you shouldn't want to have a baby though, and best of luck to you Kelway, but just don't hold your breath.

Oh belt up EW.

Why on earth are you back trying to make some "point"?
Your post was unnecessary as has always been pointed out.

True, MN is not baout always agreeing, but on this forum people are asking for information, and support.

The idea of fertility coming to an end is a very valid topic and the desire to have another baby against the odds- due to age or whatever- is part of aging which all women need to come to terms with.

If this is beyond the realms of your understanding and compassion then just go away.

Maybe you need some HRT yourself to lighten up and be less critical.

EW - take a hike, or sod off, whichever your prefer.

As you were ladies.

Gosh EW are you menopausal yourself? You sound a bit tense.

Kelway doesn't have 'high expectations' - she's expressing her sadness that her fertility is coming to an end. Whilst it's not akin to being thrown into a Russion jail, telling her to basically 'get a grip' is a bit heartless don't you think?

I'm gobsmacked by EW's attitude! Menopause is about more thanaccepting that your fertility has ended. It's a whole new phase of life that requires readjustment. Even women in their 50s whose families are complete may find they mourn the end of fertlilty. That is a normal reaction to menopause.

How much tougher, then, to face up to this 10years earlier than you expected?

Someone else's bad experience shd not be compared to your own. If you feel you yourself can learn from someone else's pain then, fine, that's for you. But it doesn't lessen the individual's own pain.

Kelway, I'm 44 and have been on HRT for 8 months. I was probably perimenopausal for about 18m before I went to the GP, and it took another 6m before I started HRT.

If I was now told that taking HRT wd shorten my life by 10y I would say "fine" and continue taking it. It has transformed my life. I could not function as a person without it. By controling my menopause symptoms it has also allowed me to see that there are other issues and I am starting CBT for depression. I am also 2weeks into thyroxine treatment for a slightly underactive thyroid and my skin is responding so well to it. My aging skin upsete a lot, and hrt didn't seem to anything for it. Do GP looked further and found another distressing but easily delt-with problem. I feel so cheered up by touching my skin now!

I'm glad it took 6m for me to start HRT because it gave me time to come to terms with having an early menopause. There is a lot to mourn, it's true, but this is also a new begining. There is a certain freedom - I never thought I would miss periods, but I didn't expect to enjoy not having them! You see your body in a different way. It's a bit like rediscovering youself after a pregnancy.

In some cultures post-meopausal women have added status because of reaching this stage. It is perceived to give them greater wisdom abd, again, they are freed from many of the restrictions and assumptions laid on fertile women.

Gosh this is a long screed! Sorry, but I hope you find it helpful. Anyway, go to your dr and discuss your options. It's something you have to face up to. There's no choice. But it's so much easier to cope with when you have a sympathetc guide and when you are able to focusbecause you are not suffering physically.

hi ladies, oh i am enjoying reading your posts/they are making me laugh so cheers (grin), i feel guilty that my 'innocent' original post seems to have started some kind up uprising!! My breath is no longer held!! i became aware at least a year ago that i would never get successfully pg again (despite people i know my age, one older, getting pg when not even trying), my body packed up in that department years ago, no idea why, just did, lucky to have one? you have NO idea how much i know i am lucky to have a dd, still can't turn off the longing though. most people i know my age cringe at the thought of having another child, they came naturally to the conclusion that they no longer desired to mother a baby all over again and that their family was complete whilst i still have that strong longing, got married later (35), not through choice OR CAREER, would loved to have married a good few years etc earlier but wasn't to be. cried in waitrose the other day as a beautiful 8 month baby girl put her hand out to me and i would have loved to hold her (didn't dare hold her hand for fear her mother would think i was some kind of baby snatcher, not in this sad uptight paranoid parenting world, mind you, i am as bad, been installed into me the fear of other humans even daring to smile at my daughter for fear they may have an ulterior motive, how sad, my childhood was filled with chatting to adults etc, nowadays too over protective me' thinks? another thread elsewhere perhaps. anyhoo, the odd thing is that a larger part of me doesn't even want another child! go figure. my life is fab as it is and another child would bugger it tremendously but i still long to go through pregnancy/labour/baby looking after again, ho hum, perhaps in another life. thanks for all your emails, much appreciated. xx

Purplepeony (love the name - can I plant you in my garden please ) the risks of longterm hrt use only apply after the normal age for menopause. When used for early menpoause the risks are barely ncreased, abd in any case a far overwhelmed by the effect hrt has in protecting against osteoporosis. Osteoporosis can be very severe after an early menpoasue as the woman may have 10 years more loss of calcium than a woman who has gone through menopasue at, say, 50something.

My understanding is that I can safely take hrt for the next 10y before I need to start thinking about limting it.

Hi Kelway . You seem to have moved on a bit since the beginning of this thread. I think despite some posts (lol) you've found this helpful which is really good.

Pretty - yes, I was given hrt for the early menopause for the reasons you describe. I like to say I was given it because I'm so young.

I know how Kelway feels about end of fertility.

I think it is particularly hard at the moment, when the papers and so on are full of all these 40+ mothers who seem to conceive so easily.

As well as all the stories of celebrities remarkably popping out twins at the age of 46, there are the stories close to home which can be surprisingly painful. Three women I know have started their families in their 40s and not needed a whiff of IVF. One woman had her first at 42, second a year later and is now expecting another!

I am very very grateful for what I have, but I can't help being at how some people seem to fly in the face of statistics (and personal experience). And even worse some seem so smug about it. Fertility one-upmanship. Or "my menopause is later than yours - na na ne na na!"

prettycandles - thanks so much for your uplifting response although obviously i do not include the part when you are talking about your own suffering/experiences of early meno', really sorry to read about that part. you really do seem to be seeing the positive side of meno'. i am not yet (!) at the stage of seeing gp, i will as it progresses but at the moment carry on, the bleeding has stopped for the time being so i can forget about it although everything seems heightened ie after mid c (assuming i have a mid c ?) i bloat out as is happening now, and i am carrying around daily constant unnecessary anxiety/stress (that feeling as if i have forgotten something really important but haven't) but i am still happy and not too bad to live with (i find i jump easily ie sudden noises, really freaky, and can suddenly get a feeling of rage inside although it goes as quickly as it came, blink of an eye stuff. question - does one HAVE to go to dr when you think meno' has started? ie 40/50 years ago, did women then?? just wondered. ta x (i don't want to go to dr)

hi gramercy, thanks for your post. i enjoyed reading your post, it touched a nerve with me, i recognised how you were feeling when you typed it. damn right about the bloody media with 'celeb' pregnancy this and that. at a time when so many people are just so incredibly interested in these people (i am not one of them, never touch a 'hello' etc mag) and yet we all have it rammed down our throats, even when queuing in m&s at the check out there staring at you is jordan's mush or kerry what'sername! (they put the mag's where you queue). i can't tell you how painful it is for me whenever i see another one of them has miraculously attained pregnancy at a later age, when i was ie 40/41 ttc it gave me hope, now i just feel terribly envy which is awful, nothing to be proud of, who says money can't buy love though, it bloody well can. of course the latest in the clan is john travolta's mrs. yes, yes, i know, they lost their son which was awful but her pregnancy is still very hard for me to hear about due to her age. an insensitive women recently when asking me 'how many children i had' (taking forgranted i of course had more than one) when learning i had 'an only child' (HATE that saying) went on to tell me how awful it was and all about her friend who had two, one got leukemia and died and that thank the lord she had another to console her (i told her i couldn't physically have another and yet she told me that.....some people, blessed with absolutely minimal social skills, can't begin to tell you how much that upset me) and that it was for that reason she had lots of kids as too risky having just one........ Sorry gramercy, i went off at a tangent there. do you mind if i ask if you have any children/a child? just wondered. having reread your post, i became 'divorced' from my best friend over my secondary infertility. long story but we fell out terribly. she was one of those in their 40's who was very fertile, our friendship could never work but it wasn't as straight forward as that, she too had secondary infer' initially then fell pg successfully (after a fair few mc's) and turned into an insensitive bitch and seemed to have totally forgotten that she used to call me up suicidal when she thought she would have only one child (i was never anything like that, she was far more emotional about it than me) and yet once she was pg she forgot about how she used to feel and thus how i was feeling, i am pleased i nolonger see or speak to her (she went on to have that child and then we totally severed ties when she was pg with her third, she may have a fourth for all i know now). x

No, you don't have to go to the GP, but neither do you just have to cope. Although I had my suspicions that I might be peri-menopausal, I had been so horrified by the idea that I had pushed it to the back of my mind. I originally went to the GP because I simply felt 'wrong', as well as permanently knackered. She did not at first think it was the big M, she fought it was an underactive thyroid. A different GP had thought it was simply depression. My gut instinct had been that it was not depression, and I am very glad I sought a second opinion!

HRT has sorted out more problems than I realised I had - the poor sleep, for example, that I had simply assumed was now my normal sleeping pattern after 18m of non-sleeping infant.

Google natural HRT or similar. There are plenty of natural remedies to help with the troublesome symptoms of menop. Black cohosh and agnus castus are another two to research. The big issue to consider, however, is that although these herbs help you cope with the symptoms, they do not protect you from osteoporosis. Even if you boost your dietary calcium your body just cannot process it adequately without sufficient oestrogen.

To me, the biggest, most important issue, was whether I could function well. I could no. I was struggling to cope. Dh was struggling to make up for my inability to cope. The dc were getting anxious. It was important fir the whole family that I get well.

It is also worth getting a general checkup at this stage in your life, to pick up any conditions that may either be masked by the menopause symptoms, or may even be causing them. It is also good to know if the rest of you is in good shape!

PrettyCandles- sorry I can't be in your garden.

You are right about the risks and when I posted that I was not referring to women who have an early ( under 45 ) menopause. It's fine to use HRt if you start an early meno and then you can take it safely right up to the age of the normal menopause- average UK is 51.

I have an excellent gynae who also treats the royal famly- that is not a boast- but he is good. he is also in favour of all complementary therapies and will never advocate HRT if anyone wants to try anything else , in fact he prefers the natural route.

He'll suggest you try Ayuvedic, homeopathy, acupuncture, chinese medicine- anything you want and has seen people getting good results.

I was very worried about the meno in my late 40s when I had the occasional "odd" cycle and knew things were changing. I was worried I would have terrible hot flushes like my mum did- well into her 70s. I felt out of control, as if my body was controlling me.

Now that I am under the care of a great dr, I feel totally different. We decide on my treatment together and he is supportive of whatever I want. I feel great on HRT as my sleeping pattern changed and I was getting very tired. I know that I cannot take HRT for ever, but for a few years I will make the most of it and come off it gradually. I also believe quality of life is what matters; if you look at the stats there is a risk yes, after 5 years, but ther is a greater risk of dying in your car.

What I wish all women on HRT knew is that it is not oestrgen that causes cancer, but according to latest research the progestogen in the HRT- I takee it only once every 3 months to minimise the risks. I don't know why all GPs do not know this as it is not rocket science. This means i have a withdrawal bleed every 3 months, not monthly. According to my dr, the fewer times you can take progesterone in a year, the lower your cancer risk.

If you are on HRT or are thinking of it, please ask your dr about this, or see a specialist who knws about HRT properly.

Because I'm still peri-menopausal my GP recommended I have a Mirena so that I would get the contraceptive benefits as well. This means that my hrt is effectively oestrogen-only.

My family is still young. I can't cope with toddlerhood and menopause at the same time! In ten years time or so I will have to reconsider hrt. At that time no doubt there will be other challenges too, but I hope it will also be a time when I willbe better able to cope with the side effects of coming off hrt and trying out alternative therapies. I would prefer the lower-risk alternatives, but now is not the time for me to try them.

PC- you mean your HRT is progesterone only- that's what is in the Mirena- unless you are taking HRT as tablets too with only oestrogen in them?

Going through the meno is no fun with teenagers, I can vouch for that . I'm always telling myself off for not seeing this coming and having a family when I was younger lol. Just to clarify, when I was younger, I just wanted to party until I met the dc's df .

LOL, Monty! I'm just hoping that I'll be getting more sleep by then, doing fewer school runs, and having a bit more time to myself during the day. In 10y time my teenagers and I will all go through our hormonal mood swings together .

Purple, I have oestrogen patches and mirena coil.

Pretty - yes, me and dd did!!

Maybe they'll have flown the next by the time I come off hrt.

nest

PC- ah all makes sense now.

My gynae is very much in favour of that combination- he wants me to have Mirena if I continue with HRT longer term. You might want to try the gel instead of patches if they get in the way. It's the same idea- you just rub the gel on your arm and hey presto! No sticky patches to fall off.