How do you respond to the claim that menopause is natural and therefore you shouldn't use HRT?

[Neulip]

I was reading though an "anti hrt" account on instagram and first let me say I am totally in support of any woman making the choice that is right for her to take or not take HRT but one of the common threads of this woman's rejection of HRT was that menopause was a natural transition and therefore we shouldn't interfere with it. Yes menopause is natural but for most women it isn't a transition to a new optimal state of being but actually a rather brutal biological and evolutionary economy that isn't carefully planned to benefit women in anyway, frankly mother nature doesn't care what happens to us when we are past the point of reproduction, she isn't even that focused on our comfort when we are fertile. If it is unnatural and therefore inherently harmful to treat menopause as a disease then what about any other medical intervention? Is anyone arguing that type one diabetics just do more yoga or give up drinking rather than rely on insulin?

I just don't get this argument against HRT at all?

Instagram and the rest of the internet isn't natural either...

Some women who go through natural menopause get through it fine, some don't and need medical help. Everything 'natural' in the body can go wrong, that's why medicine exists.

Many women go through very not natural menopause - surgical menopause is one of the more common unnatural causes, but there are quite a few thing that can cause it. The whole 'it's natural' has resulted in many of these women needlessly suffering without appropriate support. This group is entirely ignored in this BS.

Paraphrasing - to live is to experience suffering. if a suffering is avoidable, the meaningful thing to do is to remove the cause of suffering. Suffering is NOT required to have meaning, and it being 'natural' suffering doesn't make it any more meaningful - or healthier. We all have to weigh the benefits and risks of things like this, but the natural fallacy does a lot of harm and promotes unneeded suffering, ignoring that one of the wonderful things about being human is how we've adapted and made so many great not natural tools to help with suffering.

So yeah, I'd likely respond with an awkward shuffle away in person because this has been around so long that it's tiring - and I'd be concerned about getting into a conversation about them trying to sell 'natural' supplements -, but if pushed, I'd respond with what my teenagers call a mumologue about the philosophy of suffering, meaning, human adaptation and no, not all menopause is natural, and even ones that are can have medical needs.

I think its not that HRT or at least the modern formulations cause breast cancer they don't but if you develop an estrogen sensitive breast cancer then the estrogen in the HRT can potentially feed it so to speak. Its complicated as not all breast cancers are hormone sensitive. I have also read that there is some evidence to suggest that women who have had a certain kind of ovarian cancer may have a better survival rate than women who don't use it Hormone Replacement Therapy for Ovarian Cancer - NCI With breast cancer it seems more complex but its been suggested that women who were using it prior to diagnosis may have better outcomes but for the most part taking HRT after breast cancer isn't recommended. Dr. Avrum Bluming an oncologist specialising in Breast Cancer wrote a book called Oestrogen Matters and I think he believes that HRT can be given to breast cancer survivors however it really isn't a mainstream view at all, but still interesting. I also think with studies done on body identical estrogen there was no increase in breast cancer but with progesterone their might be, the jury is still out on micronized progesterone.

looking after our health naturally is all very well but if it doesn’t meet expectations- there are meds. That’s it.

I don’t bother. Death for large numbers of women during childbirth used to be natural. Natural isn’t synonymous with good. Life’s too short to argue with idiots I don’t know and don’t care about

@2Rebecca Very true. I think if her page was just about support and info for women who can't or choose not to use HRT I'd think that was great but instead her page is dedicated to attacking those who do choose to use it and spreading misinformation that is what is annoying!

ooh I’ve had a few lately but I’m usually polite and say I’m not interested - how do they respond to this?

All healthcare is an intervention.

It's well documented that women have radically different experience of menopause so I'm not sure why any woman would think their own experience applies to every woman.

See also pain relief in childbirth.

I tend to smile and nod, perhaps ask people how they’ve got on with the fillings they’ve had or how they get on with their dentist and leave it to them to work it out.
Demonising any kind of healthcare intervention is ableist and daft.

@Arlanymor and @franklymydearscarlett A JW came to my door once and I almost let him in he was so handsome, like a very young Chris Noth. Luckily I came to my senses before he could hand me the latest copy of Watchtower!

Learn that others have opinions and that’s what they are and they can have them.

"How do you respond to the claim that menopause is natural and therefore you shouldn't use HRT?'

Fuck off?

What if you have had an injury or been harmed by medication or health intervention, like me? (See my previous reply upthread)...

I mean, I am not anti-medication or healthcare per se at all, and have had antenatal care, c-sections and emergency surgery, but I personally feel wary of not knowing how a new drug might affect me.

I'm all for helping out people using medicine but equally, not blindly trusting them too isn't really ableist. Just possibly overcautious.

I am very supportive of women who take HRT and definitely don't buy the "its natural so you have to suffer" brigade. But what does annoy me is the suggestion that every woman of a certain age must take HRT and they are harming themselves or in denial if they choose not to. Choice goes both ways.

Cancer is natural. It doesn’t mean we don’t want to do something about it if it happens to us.
oh as is death. Doesn’t mean I don’t want to postpone it or make my life as nice as possible until it happens.

Knob cancer is natural, so you wouldn't be taking painkillers for it then?

Well death is natural but we try to avoid it as long as possible, no?

I’m in favour of HRT when a women feels that they need help through the menopause years. But I don’t think women should feel pressurised to take it in light of the heavy duty campaign that has been going on.
Some women can be very evangelical about it and if you have mild symptoms then you can be made to feel that you are somehow missing out.
I took it for 4 yrs, it really wasn’t the answer to all my problems. It helped with moods and the very mild hot flushes I’d been experiencing but my main symptom was muscle and joint pain. It had no effect on the skeletal problems in fact it made them worse. I later found out that low magnesium and B12, most likely due to age , were the culprits and simple supplements for 3 months DS more than 4 years of hormones.

Many of my friends who’ve had the same problems have also admitted that HRT did nothing for the aches and pains.

We mustn’t forget that some menopausal symptoms are just universal symptoms of aging.

I came off HRT when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I do think it was the result of HRT, I had been having mammograms regularly and always had negative results. My 3 yearly mammogram was delayed by a year due to the pandemic and was diagnosed 4 yrs after the last clear mammogram.

What most women are unaware of when risk assessing is that apart from women who have had a surgical or premature menopause ( hormones are actually replaced rather than supplemented) most of the data we have re the longterm affects of HRT are predominantly from studies done on post menopausal women. Prescribing HRT was limited to women who had not had a period for 12mnths, the definition of post menopausal. The trend of giving HRT to peri menopausal women is relatively new. It will be interesting to see data relating to this in the next few years.

In addition there is almost no reporting of breast cancer development while taking HRT through the Yellow card system. When I was diagnosed I asked my surgeon whether they reported and she said no, it wasn’t standard practice.

I plummeted into full meno but as I was officially post menopausal I was pleasantly surprised that my life didn’t end. My mood swings didn’t return. I had plenty of energy and life is actually fine. I’ve had to deal with a lot of life events since stopping HRT and I think that I handled them far better than when I had hormones. I take hormone blockers which have their own special side effects but hopefully I can come off them later this year and from the experience of others the side effects do lift.

Menopause is like many stages of life, some people whinge and moan because they have a difficult time, others sail through it and live as well after as they did before. In fact life without hormones for someone who has had a lifetime of endometriosis related problems can be life changing. You only have to look at the differences in how childbirth and parenting are perceived to understand how we deal with the various stages of life.

We also need to be clear that HRT is not an anti aging drug. Our hormones haven’t stopped us aging up to the point they fail so replacing them is not going to slow things down. It has specific benefits for some women who may be more likely to suffer with osteoporosis. The link with cardiovascular disease is a little more tenuous.

For women who are not sure or risk averse then it’s important to have support networks when they chose not to take HRT or if they are unable to take HRT.

.

If men suffered from agonising period pains and horrible menopausal symptoms, there be a cure for it by now.

I would not attack anyone choosing HRT but I got through menopause without it . I felt that the process of adjusting to have a different hormone balance was a natural one that I could trust, even though it was deeply unpleasant at times.

The reason many women are enthusiastic about it is that it isn’t about the symptoms solely but about the benefits for what you can’t see eg bone density and organ health. But it definitely isn’t right for some women. I just wish all women would be properly advised and educated and then make their choice that is right for them.

I’m not sure if this is in response to my post and you’ve misinterpreted it and calling me a knob or whether you’re saying the same as me.
What you’ve posted is exactly what I meant and that just because something is natural doesn’t mean you wouldn’t treat it/do something about it.

@Crwysmam can I ask how hrt made your joint pain worse. I take it for sane reason and like you am not noticing any improvement. I was wondering if I am not taking enough but your post suggests otherwise. I had none of the typical meno symptoms.

I guess like everything it's a balancing act. I would rather not use HRT as I hate the faff and if it noticeably helped I would not complain but I don't think it's helping. I was also recently diagnosed with adenyosis and wonder if I should be taking hrt at all but doctor said nothing. Then again I have ostepaenia so that makes me feel I should stay on it. Perhaps what's missing is access to a good gynaecologist or similar expert.

I'd say get bent. It saved my life.

Dont humour stupid people by responding to them or even reading their verbal vomit. Death is natural, so anytime this woman has done something to ward it off, she’s done something ‘unnatural’: antibiotics for a sinus infection, a vaccination against TB, an appendectomy, etc etc.

So this is a real person?
Does he/she believe that nature alone should decide what happens to you?
Ok so a few examples to spam her with.
Does she dye her hair?
Does she wear any type of make up, moisturiser, sun cream, anti perspirant, body lotion, if fact anything at all?
Does she have children or relatives? If so I assume that she never, ever administers any kind of pain relief what so ever. She would rather let nature take its course.
If her child is ill she will just waft a few herbs in front of it and give them a herbal remedy made entirely from her garden to drink, yes?
If she is ill she never, ever takes pain relief.
It’s also fair to assume that neither she nor any member of her family is vaccinated. Neither do they go to the doctors or hospital under any circumstances as what would be the point?
If she doesn’t comply to all of the above then she is a hypocrite.
More likely a phoney trying to get likes.