Anyone else have this insomnia issue?

[Furryfeet]

Sorry about the long post. Ideally I'd like to hear from anyone who has come through similar experiences to give me encouragement or anyone who just wants to share their own circumstances. (Btw I'm 45; been on Evorel 100 patches for about 8 weeks, upped to 150 3 weeks ago + cyclical utrogestan + 37.5mg venlafaxine for 5 weeks + 10mg amitriptyline started v recently)

I am continually perplexed by the way I have lost the ability to sleep and my sleep is at the same time really bad AND erratic. The thing that aggravates me most is that I've lost count of the number of times I've tried something new to help sleep and it's worked and I've thought 'Brilliant - I've cracked this' and then it's stopped working after 2 nights max.

For example I noticed for several months I was sleeping longer and more soundly on the nights my dh had ended up falling asleep downstairs on the couch, so he offered to sleep on the sofa for a week as an experiment to see how it benefited my sleep... 3 nights of great sleep for me and then it just stopped working. Same when i took taurine - first 2 nights slept like a baby but not since. First night of amitriptyline knocked me out for 8 hours and then the next night I was awake within 30 minutes and only got back to sleep again from 3-5:40am, CBD oil was similar. I've tried CBTi and hypnotherapy but they just seem like expensive chats.

I seem to sleep for little more than 3 hours a night with maybe 1-2 nights a week of a magical 7 hours, but I never know which I'll get. To make it more confusing, dh thinks I sometimes think I'm awake when I'm actually asleep. I thought about getting a smart watch to track sleep but think I'd probably just get even more obsessed with it.

The thing I find the hardest is the sense of not 'knowing myself' any more. I have been off work for a while with anxiety, low mood and insomnia after a fairly full-on stint of homeworking during the pandemic (which was when certain peri symptoms emerged). Some of my physical symptoms have gone and part of me would love to go back to work and feel part of that world again (and in fact I'll have to return soon anyway), but it's hard to tell how working will impact on my sleep and wellbeing. My managers have been pretty supportive in terms of asking me all about what might support me, but it's actually hard to know what would help when I've been feeling so weird for so long.

I hear you:(

I'm currently back on the melatonin. Doesn't seem to be working.

Hrt is regarded as a universal panacea for peri menopause issues...not in my case! In fact it caused more (serious) issues and never really solved anything.

And, of course, not everyone can take it (hormone receptive cancer sufferers and survivors for instance)

If I knew the time frame...eg: you'll be menopausal in a year and it'll all get better - I'd feel more able to cope I think. But no idea when women in my family go through menopause...my mum, sister, aunts...all had hysterectomies in their 30s/40s.

I'm 49 and average age for menopause is 52?

I've been menstruating since I was 10. I'm so done.

@ChiswickFlo @newbiename God I feel for you both, and all the other posters. And yes a timeframe would be amazing - at least when my DS was a dreadful sleeper I essentially knew what I was dealing with. I look at my diary to remind me I do get 7 hours sometimes, but never knowing when the next one will come around is so tough.

I think I feel low as its been a rubbish half term week (we were supposed to be away but mum was too ill to travel..)
Weather looks awful for the next 2 weeks (which will include both big family birthdays)
I feel stretched so thin (ironic as I'm 2 stone overweight!!)
I'm still waiting for test results x 3 which is also on my mind
Need to start thinking about and prepping for the holiday in 6 weeks 🤔

Ds1 needs lots of lifts this week (various parties/a festival etc)
Meetings tomorrow which I haven't prepared for 😬

@ChiswickFlo aw, sounds like you’re having a moment. This will pass, as they say. There will be better times x

And @ChiswickFlo sounds like you’ve got a son with an active social life, which is a beautiful thing 😊

Yes it's great hes out snd about after covid lockdowns :)

@Furryfeet thanks. Hopefully we'll all get sorted at some point.

Have you tried Zaleplon (Sonata)?
It saved my life.

I also sleep in a cold - not cool - bedroom.

I’ve had insomnia my entire life. It sucks.

Window always open even in winter
Air cooler fan (which I haven't needed to use yet this year)
Decent mattress
New pillow
Light duvet
Dark room
No coffee after 10am
Limited fluids after 9pm
Lavender pillow spray and magnesium body lotion
...
I've tried the lot 🙂

Never heard of Zaleplon (great name though!) I love the cold soo much. In fact in April I slept in a tent in the garden for a week. Again, it was one of those things that worked a treat for a couple of nights but then I couldn’t sleep for worrying how I would survive through a Scottish winter! 🤣 I made it through a night at -3 which I would say is still preferable to a warm room 😆

Another night tossing and turning...

Sigh.

I can't take more melatonin...I'm on 10mg.

Meetings this morning. Fun times.

I had this problem for about 4 years, I'm 46. What worked for me instantly is taking ultrogestan every day at night. I still have a period but no in between bleeding) and oestrogel. I simply use a small blob in the morning and at lunchtime. I don't follow the required dosage as it's too much for me. It makes me too wired at bedtime. The doctor said I should take the dose which works for me, so little at often works.

The above has been a game changer as I sleep all through the night and my peri menopausal symptoms have pretty much gone.

The trick is finding the right balance of oestrogen for your body which can be regulated easily with a gel. Too much will keep you awake.

Daily doses of progesterone will make you sleep like a baby

@Cherryblossom200 glad you found what works for you. I tend to follow dr’s advice to the letter for HRT - no idea why cos they don’t know much more than I do! 😅How long did it take you to find the magic balance? Was there lots of trial & error? And gel must be easier than patches all round

But this was following my doctors advice, and one was a gynaecologist. It was the gynaecologist (male doctor) who told me straight away what to take once I explained my symptoms. He said to take the progesterone daily, and just use the gel as and when I need it. If I took the daily dose I would feel absolutely awful on it.

I've realised that every woman is different, the amount of estrogen we need is different to the next woman. If I had given up so quickly I wouldn't be where I am now. Almost symptom free. So I'm grateful for the advice of the gynaecologist.

Btw this is the exact same HRT as Davina McCall uses and it's fab as it's the closest to our own hormones.

Some days I don't even take the oestrogel, I don't need it. I think this is because I'm peri menopausal. So I don't need quite so much of it. Around my period I up my dose as that's when I know my hormone levels are low.

It's not an exact science. But it works great 👍 my advice is don't give up, tailor it to your bodies needs. Perhaps Estrogel won't work for me, but a different gel might work.

For me it took approx one month to discover the dose I needed. I also discovered it was better going on the inside of my thigh rather than my arm. For some reason it works better for me there.

Thanks @Cherryblossom200 It never occurred to me before that with gel you can alter the dose daily whereas with a patch there’s more of a commitment to a set dose. Funnily enough my hot flashes had been happening for years just before my period and around the time my sleep got bad they’d started during/ just after my period, so maybe that’s where I should have concentrated the oestrogen

Furry exactly! I tracked how I felt almost daily and I found I could pretty much pin point when I would have my sleeping problems and when I felt anxious etc. I'm almost mimicking now my hormones levels rise and fall throughout the month, topping up when I feel I need it most.

The gel is without doubt the best way to take oestrogen.

But in terms of where you are in your menopause, then try take utrogestan every night before bed. It works perfectly. This is the sleepy hormone you will be lacking.

I had such a bad week on my first stint of utrogestan that I ‘accidentally’ forgot to take it on time this month. I did truly forget but think it was maybe subconsciously because I didn’t want a repeat of last month (which may have been awful of other reasons, not necessarily utrogestan’s fault). We live and learn! 😅

One thing that cheers me up through all this is picking a really inane MN thread to follow. I’m currently a bystander to an argument about whether or not an indoor/out cat should have a litter tray. I follow it like a soap opera thinking ‘wow, you must get so much sleep to put so much energy into this argument’ 🤣🤣

Do you exercise? I found upping my exercise made a massive difference to my sleep

I can't take HRT but I take Menopace Night and piriton at night and it works well along with exercise. I've only been taking both the last month.

If it helps, I'm now 49 and it's significantly better than it was age 44-48. I can't tell you why but maybe my hormones are finally calming down a bit. So fingers crossed it improves for you!

@FatTum I was exercising regularly (a run most mornings) but when I went onto a low dose of Venlafaxine about a month ago it really suppresses appetite, so I was losing too much weight, which didn’t seem good for my anxiety (ironic considering I put so much effort into weight loss last year!). I think I will start again as it feels great on a sunny morning. Glad to hear it get could get easier! 😊

@Mummysgogetter @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor @Runaround50
So far, with some help from this thread, I've had a few good night's sleep on the amitriptyline. The first 2 nights I took 10mg, then up to 20. Taken it about 2145 for 2300 bedtime, then read for 10 minutes, 20 minutes of meditation (I would like a slightly earlier bedtime but the teens crash about the house till at least 11!). I've woken up in the night for a minute here and there as I might with a natural sleep. I think I may have been awake for 40 minutes or so from 0430 this morning and thought 'oh no it's wearing off' but then went back to sleep and even slept through the radio alarm so I had one of those dreams about the radio show.

It's such early days though, so I feel v apprehensive. Already think 'what if it stops working?' Particularly because I was on mirtazapine for 6 weeks before and it worked as a sedative for 3 of those then insomnia came back worse. Having said that, the mirtazapine sleep felt less natural than this. I'd take it at 11pm and fall asleep almost instantly for the whole night, whereas this feels gentler and more relaxing.

As amitriptyline users can any of you relate to this? Do you have a plan B? I'm going to stick carefully to self-care (about to go for a run) and speak to the GP and ask what other options there might be if this doesn't work for long. And I've got an HRT review at the end of the month so who knows... I've never coped well with uncertainty, which given the world we live in isn't ideal😅

Plan B for dh is he tries to sleep but if he can't after ten mins he reads and just drops off again. This happens maybe 2 nights out of every week. A kindle is useful in this situation as you don't have to disturb your partner,if you have one, with the light. The idea is to not stress about waking or going back to sleep. If a relaxation thing works listen to that maybe if reading doesn't work.

Early days but give it 3 weeks on the new dose and I'm sure you'll see a difference.

**dh only reads for about 5 mins and just nods off again.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor thanks for the tip. Initially I was thinking more about what you might try next if you simply developed a tolerance to this med, but it’s helpful that you’ve pointed out that the odd more wakeful night doesn’t mean it’s stopped working as such

@Furryfeet I have about 2-3 bad nights a month on 20 mg of Amitriptyline - I always think “oh no it’s stopped working!!” But then it works again. It’s usually around the time of my period when it doesn’t work. I have been on it for 10 months now.

@JinglingHellsBells Got my bloods tested via the NHS and estradiol is only 154pmol/l. I know that levels vary in peri but not indicative of too much oestrogen.