Anyone else have this insomnia issue?

[Furryfeet]

Sorry about the long post. Ideally I'd like to hear from anyone who has come through similar experiences to give me encouragement or anyone who just wants to share their own circumstances. (Btw I'm 45; been on Evorel 100 patches for about 8 weeks, upped to 150 3 weeks ago + cyclical utrogestan + 37.5mg venlafaxine for 5 weeks + 10mg amitriptyline started v recently)

I am continually perplexed by the way I have lost the ability to sleep and my sleep is at the same time really bad AND erratic. The thing that aggravates me most is that I've lost count of the number of times I've tried something new to help sleep and it's worked and I've thought 'Brilliant - I've cracked this' and then it's stopped working after 2 nights max.

For example I noticed for several months I was sleeping longer and more soundly on the nights my dh had ended up falling asleep downstairs on the couch, so he offered to sleep on the sofa for a week as an experiment to see how it benefited my sleep... 3 nights of great sleep for me and then it just stopped working. Same when i took taurine - first 2 nights slept like a baby but not since. First night of amitriptyline knocked me out for 8 hours and then the next night I was awake within 30 minutes and only got back to sleep again from 3-5:40am, CBD oil was similar. I've tried CBTi and hypnotherapy but they just seem like expensive chats.

I seem to sleep for little more than 3 hours a night with maybe 1-2 nights a week of a magical 7 hours, but I never know which I'll get. To make it more confusing, dh thinks I sometimes think I'm awake when I'm actually asleep. I thought about getting a smart watch to track sleep but think I'd probably just get even more obsessed with it.

The thing I find the hardest is the sense of not 'knowing myself' any more. I have been off work for a while with anxiety, low mood and insomnia after a fairly full-on stint of homeworking during the pandemic (which was when certain peri symptoms emerged). Some of my physical symptoms have gone and part of me would love to go back to work and feel part of that world again (and in fact I'll have to return soon anyway), but it's hard to tell how working will impact on my sleep and wellbeing. My managers have been pretty supportive in terms of asking me all about what might support me, but it's actually hard to know what would help when I've been feeling so weird for so long.

I am stuck in the too much, unless I’m not absorbing in which case it could be too little question

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Stuck?

If you are using 150mcgs, that's 2 patches as there is not 150mcg patch.

All you need do is use the 50mcg patch instead.

You don't have to wait for permission from a dr. Give it a whirl.

Women who use gel where the dose is easily altered, change it all the time, to get the right amount.

I've only skimmed the thread but are you taking magnesium?

Wrt amyltriptaline (sp?) You won't see an improvement immediately, it doesn't work like that , give it 3 weeks and see how you feel then.

I'm doing an early waking thing at the moment, it's driving me bonkers, I could happily shoot every bird squawking from 4.30am!!!

@Runaround50 I think you're absolutely right on one level. I have been through a lot of transitions and have just coped because I've had to, which is why I tried CBT and hypnotherapy, as well as mindfulness and took time off work. But what has happened to my sleep seems over and above what you might expect. For example at Easter DD and I had a lovely day our hiking with friends on the Isle of Arran in blistering hot weather and then I came home exhausted and slept that night for just 1 hour. I think I'd only slept for 2 1/2 hours the previous night. So yes, I think that the stresses certainly haven't helped but there seems to be something happening at a chemical level too. Or a feedback loop of both

It's weird, Dh when he was at his worst would walk for hours on end and be exhausted but still wouldn't sleep. He was up 3 nights straight once and STILL couldn't drop off,it was just awful. Amitriptyline has been miraculous but it took a while to kick in.

And he takes a high dose of magnesium too which is essential for sleep.

@Furryfeet yes I hear you re the chemical changes to the brain etc.
To a degree, i am the same and the inability to sleep worsened during peri menopause, but it's not much better now.

Insomnia is very real issue we know.

Have you tried an indica dominant CBD oil? Could be worth a shot?

As @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor mentions, magnesium is worth a try too. There are sprays which you can use, which go directly into the bloodstream.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor Thanks for the comments Mrs P. I actually slept very well last night having followed someone's advice to take 20mg of Amitripltyline a couple of hours before bed. I will stick with it and see what happens,. I take magnesium but might up my dose. I also need to review my ferritin levels as I know anaemia can affect sleep and I was iron deficient last year.

I haven’t rtft so ignore me if this has already been mentioned - my sleep disturbances are cyclical I think. I sleep fine at certain parts of the month; struggle to get to sleep for a while; get to sleep easily but wake in the wee hours with raging anxiety.

Have you tried keeping a diary/record of yours? You might just need different solutions on different nights.

I’ve found a weighted blanket works well for the early wake ups/anxiety but when this isn’t the problem is just annoying and too hot. So I save it for those times.

On the nights I can’t get to sleep I sometimes head for the sofa as being near dh infuriates me.

For me there just isn’t a single solution for every night.

@Runaround50 yes, insomnia is beyond awful and sorry to hear you still struggle with it. I've found it so hard to 'untangle' all the different factors that have been at play in my life in the last year that although I know it isn't ideal to be on HRT & AD's it's the only way I felt I could cover all eventualities. I've never been on any meds before and until September last year I was getting 8+ hours sleep a night without giving it any thought!

@Furryfeet yes I hear what you are saying.
More than likely just a combination of everything, including hormones which are causing the sleep issues . It's so frustrating, but at least you are not alone.

@Trivester I think you have a point. I am on HRT so don't really have a real cycle but I have noticed that if I sleep in bed with DH for a few nights I get restless and yearn for him to fall asleep on the couch for a change. Then when he's out of bed I often sleep a little better but after a couple of nights I slowly realise that he isn't actually the cause of my insomnia. I also note that if I sleep really badly for a few nights then usually a 7 hour night will arrive. When I return to work 2 days a week I think I'll need to use this info the best I can

Really feel for you , I can relate ... I feel so drained during the day that I think I'll sleep well tonight and then I can get to sleep usually then say I go to bed at 11.30 I'm awake at 1 then 3.30 then 5 then I get up at 7
I'm on sequel 50 and conti patches , veneflaxine ( been on for a good few years ) and have just wondered if I will never ever sleep a proper nights sleep again
I swear I look older and more haggered this year too , I'm 47 in august

@Purplecatshopaholic Thanks for the warm words P! Glad to hear it passed for you

Can I recommend the Menopausal not mad website over Newson clinic for any menopausal insomnia ( with links for affordable zoom appointments) They have a brilliant FB page for anyone interested

Awful insomnia here too, usually I can drop off to sleep, but I wake about one, and can’t stop thinking, after a couple of hours or so I make a cuppa and sit in the lounge, I am in the menopause and also have MS, both conditions known to affect sleep pattern.

I get about an hour's extra sleep if I take 50mg Sleepeaze (diphenhydramine hydrochloride) which you can buy over the counter. Unfortunately it's only for short term use so I only take it when my sleep has been so bad that I can't function any more. But it might be worth a try.

@Carlycat @Roselilly36 i see you were both posting at stupid o’clock, and sympathise!

Thanks Carly for the menopausal not mad suggestion. This is just what I’m looking for and I even posted a request to that effect on Facebook this morning. I found the Newson consultation a bit generic for the money.

There should be link to a private FB group
' The HRT Truth Collective ' on that page. They've helped me out immensely and the private consultations were brilliant and very reasonable compared to Newson
Good luck x

I was about to post the same thing. I had the same problem as you and was prescribed Amitriptyline 10 mg but it stopped working after a few days. I’ve been on 20 mg since (around 10 months) and touch wood, they give me a solid 8-9 hours sleep - apart from around my period when the insomnia rears it’s ugly head.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor Can I clarify with you... with regard amitriptyline. Are you saying that the sedating effects can take a few weeks to kick in? I'd be interested in any insights you on this.

Yes , definitely. Dh's GP was shit hot on insomnia and how it's treated now (NOT with traditional sleeping tablets but a low dose of amitriptyline) he talked to Dh for a long time about sticking out the initial side effects - dreadful dry mouth- for the first couple of weeks. It was about week 3 before dh started getting decent chunks of sleep. It's definitely not an over night cure.

That’s interesting @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor So far I’ve had 3 good nights and 2 not so good. 2 of the 3 good nights I was shattered anyway so would have expected it wouldn’t have taken much to make me sleep. I tend to worry I’m a fast metaboliser and things just move through me before they get a chance to work but I’ll keep an open mind and will resist the temptation to keep upping the dose

Apparently for insomnia the dosage is 25 mg, any more and it has the opposite effect. I can't remember the specifics, I did a lot of googling at first. Take it at the same time every night and stay on top of a strict sleep hygiene routine. Dh takes his at about 9, has a shower at 9.30 and heads for bed about 10 and reads.

I took it years ago (can't have it now) at 25mg and it worked brilliantly

A lot of these sound like me ☹️
Been on the phone to a couple of different GPs in tears.
Tried most things including HRT - nothing bloody works.
It's so upsetting, I'm always exhausted, can't do nice things on my days off because I'm just so tired.