attitudes to hrt - people desperate to avoid it?

[CharityShopChic]

I am 50 this year and so many of my friends are on HRT. I started using patches in January and have seen a huge improvement in my anxiety, sleeping and furious temper.

I am in another online group with people of all ages, although tending to the 40+. Comment made in the Facebook group yesterday about hot flushes and how if the national grid could harness menopausal flushes the energy prices would half. Lots of chat about how awful flushes and other symptoms are. I commented that they should give HRT a try and the patches for me have been life changing.

Nearly everyone in the menopausal age bracket was oooooh no, that's not for me, I'm trying to manage without it, i'm hoping to avoid it etc etc.

What is going on here? I haven't come across this attitude in real life, that succumbing to HRT is some sort of failure? And that it's best to power through without , even if you feel crap? Or are they all just menopause-bonkers?

I would add that I have read several studies that ‘prove’ HRT increases the risk of dementia. I wouldn’t post these because I don’t believe that one study proves anything, unless of course it is a large long term study.
Anyone who states a fixed truth re HRT does not understand the complex nature of these drugs . Nor perhaps do they understand the complex relationship between pharmaceutical companies and health services.
Or maybe they do! Some one more cynical than me might think one or two or you write copy for big pharma !

[quote Novella4]@JinglingHellsBells
I haven’t read the full thread but I assure you people regularly claim on these threads that HRT protects against dementia . I think in this case it was @ new girls
There is no firm evidence whatsoever for this.[/quote]

There's staring to be some research but it's not firm yet.

It seems to hinge on timing (age) and length.

I've just looked up the study citied in oestrogen matters (I'm on the brain chapter.)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12413371/

@JaniieJones

'You will find stats in the BMJ and the BMS which state that there is no increase in BC in women using Utrogestan for the first five years. There is data from two other research trials over a long timescale - one EN3 (in France) and another in Denmark, which showed no increase with much longer use (over 12 years.)'

Interesting isn't it. Conflicting though, one says no increase for the first 5 yrs then others no increase over 12yrs. It's hard to make an informed decisions. Time will tell we'll have to all reconvene in 10 yrs and see what the advice is then!

Why would it be conflicting.

I read that as one study lasted 5 years and a couple of other studies lasted 12 years and there was still no increase in risk.

Or am I missing something.

www.adelaide.edu.au/news/print9201.html

Kennyken yes you're right, sorry!

Yes @TackyTriceratops , that is the sort of small study I meant . They are so many !
I only glanced quickly at your link but it looked short term to me. That’s the sort I don’t link - what’s the point ?

@Novella4

I would add that I have read several studies that ‘prove’ HRT increases the risk of dementia. I wouldn’t post these because I don’t believe that one study proves anything, unless of course it is a large long term study. Anyone who states a fixed truth re HRT does not understand the complex nature of these drugs . Nor perhaps do they understand the complex relationship between pharmaceutical companies and health services. Or maybe they do! Some one more cynical than me might think one or two or you write copy for big pharma !

Being part of an untapped market has crossed my mind

Well yes

@JinglingHellsBells

the massive drain on the NHS regarding dementia care then you'd really think they'd have chucked everything at hrt research

Not sure I understand this @JaniieJones

The NHS doesn't fund research as far as I know.
Pharma companies do, research universities do, the MRC (medical research council) and sometimes charities.

The NHS most definitely does find reaearch @JinglingHellsBells. I’m surprised you aren’t aware of the fact

Sorry FUND not find .

Novella what form does it take?

Eg at Kings I was part of a research study and had a free NIPT test. Is that what funded by NHS looks like or is that something else

@Novella4

Yes *@TackyTriceratops* , that is the sort of small study I meant . They are so many ! I only glanced quickly at your link but it looked short term to me. That’s the sort I don’t link - what’s the point ?

Yes they're few and far between.

There's also potentially some medical sexism I suppose. And if women were so badly put off hrt it would be hard to get good funding to study.

But there are many studies that point to indications that it can be helpful if stated young enough. (You'd have to see the chapter in oestrogen matters; it details loads.) some observational studies and also impact on rat's brains when rat's ovaries were removed etc. ( )

It does say there's not actually much evidence of any drug particularly helping altzheimers or dementia greatly. (From what I read in the book.)

Lisa Moschino's book the xx brain worth a read.

I would add that I have read several studies that ‘prove’ HRT increases the risk of dementia.

The key seems to be leaning towards when the hrt is started.

@TackyTriceratops observational studies are almost entirely worthless . They show correlation not causation
Pharmaceutical companies seem keen on them though

@TackyTriceratops

I would add that I have read several studies that ‘prove’ HRT increases the risk of dementia.

The key seems to be leaning towards when the hrt is started.

I don’t think there is any firm evidence so there is no ‘key’

Ok so there's no firm evidence.

Why?

healthier lifestyle generally is supportive. For me hrt is definitely part of that. It's not sorted properly yet but I've definitely been able to do more exercise than before.

My brain isn't great at the moment but one thing the book looked at was that verbal memory seems to improve on hrt. My own experience was I could finally concentrate for extended periods of time.

There is limited knowledge about women’s brains and risk of dementia, partly due to the fact that women have only been included in clinical trials since 1993.

Well, that might be one of the reasons why

Info from Newson website www.balance-menopause.com/menopause-library/can-hrt-reduce-your-risk-of-dementia/

Did you read that link? Could they pack any more vague modifiers into one sentence lol?! ‘Some ‘ studies ‘may’ show ‘some’ benefit…
They dismiss the Finland study as observational but do you know what sort of studies the ‘ some’ are?

Pretty much all observational though verbal ones weren't from what I've read.

All observational? Interesting

I'm focussing more on the healthy dose of sexism that's evidently a part of all this.

There's lots of research only just starting to be one on womens brains, eg risk for dementia and women who play rugby and football.

Not enough evidence yet though some suggested mechanisms that they're looking at.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/24/concussions-risks-womens-rugby-union-head-injury-dementia-mens-rugby

@Novella4

All observational? Interesting

I'd suggest you read the book tbh. My memory is currently shit.

@TackyTriceratops

There is limited knowledge about women’s brains and risk of dementia, partly due to the fact that women have only been included in clinical trials since 1993.

Well, that might be one of the reasons why

Info from Newson website www.balance-menopause.com/menopause-library/can-hrt-reduce-your-risk-of-dementia/

Brain fog etc is very common so we have to think there is link to low oestrogen and later brain issues?

The link to the Dr Newson article supports that. It seems very balanced article to me, focusing on healthy living first.

I am sure more women will take hrt in years to come and new evolving products will support that. I wish there was less confusion now.

Thank you Secretsqizzle, you have given me so much hope. I am 55, post meno, struggling with low mood, fatigue, tearfulness, constant utis, just wanting to pull the covers up and not engage with life. I have been so scared to take hrt because of all the conflicting evidence and so many of the ladies on here seem to be younger starting it. Is there any other medication with so much controversy around it? But you have made me feel hopeful, thank you.

A couple of informative podcast episodes here that MNers may find useful.

What does the evidence say about breast cancer and HRT? - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-dr-louise-newson-podcast/id1459614845?i=1000542069721

The basics about HRT - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-dr-louise-newson-podcast/id1459614845?i=1000480316160

The benefits of HRT - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-dr-louise-newson-podcast/id1459614845?i=1000512203120

Dispelling myths about HRT - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/everyday-wellness/id1435214303?i=1000553780228

Disclaimer, I’m just realising that I’m Peri so not on any form of treatment at the moment so can’t comment from personal experience!