attitudes to hrt - people desperate to avoid it?

[CharityShopChic]

I am 50 this year and so many of my friends are on HRT. I started using patches in January and have seen a huge improvement in my anxiety, sleeping and furious temper.

I am in another online group with people of all ages, although tending to the 40+. Comment made in the Facebook group yesterday about hot flushes and how if the national grid could harness menopausal flushes the energy prices would half. Lots of chat about how awful flushes and other symptoms are. I commented that they should give HRT a try and the patches for me have been life changing.

Nearly everyone in the menopausal age bracket was oooooh no, that's not for me, I'm trying to manage without it, i'm hoping to avoid it etc etc.

What is going on here? I haven't come across this attitude in real life, that succumbing to HRT is some sort of failure? And that it's best to power through without , even if you feel crap? Or are they all just menopause-bonkers?

@JinglingHellsBells

the massive drain on the NHS regarding dementia care then you'd really think they'd have chucked everything at hrt research

Not sure I understand this @JaniieJones

The NHS doesn't fund research as far as I know.
Pharma companies do, research universities do, the MRC (medical research council) and sometimes charities.

As it would have such a massive impact on NHS costs regarding osteoporosis and dementia care you'd think someone (not the NHS no but a research group of some description) would have been tasked with proving the osteoporosis benefits, alleged dementia protection and debunked the cancer risks.

Yet apparently we've to wait at least another 20yrs for any further evidence.

Weird. If I was in charge of the nhs I'd want this as a priority. Or maybe the reduced fractures would be outweighed by increased cancer cases? We don't know do we, seems a guessing game.

And also is there still a five year limit in guidance

This went out the window years ago.

There is no limit at all.

Maybe you should apply for the job then @JaniieJones

@JinglingHellsBells

Maybe you should apply for the job then *@JaniieJones*

I should!

'also is there still a five year limit in guidance'

'This went out the window years ago.'

Yet here we have guidance from 2021 saying risks do increase with duration so not sure it has gone out the window .

No wonder there's ongoing confusion what with uneducated GPs and conflicting online advice.

@JaniieJones

'also is there still a five year limit in guidance'

'This went out the window years ago.'

Yet here we have guidance from 2021 saying risks do increase with duration so not sure it has gone out the window .

No wonder there's ongoing confusion what with uneducated GPs and conflicting online advice.

Ah yes that’s where I read it. So quite new

We have so much of the evidence already.

Honestly, I'm both raging and terrified for women, halfway through this book:

Oestrogen Matters: Why Taking Hormones in Menopause Can Improve Women's Well-Being and Lengthen Their Lives - Without Raising the Risk of Breast Cancer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0349421773/ref=cmswwrcppapiii_W3C8TKYV475QEA0Y2D44

@JaniieJones are any of those progesterone products utrogestan or did they not look at that?

I'm pondering on the effects of that vaginally with oestrogen given the other results.

The most bizarre "side effect" of starting oestrogen patches for me was similar effects to what can happen when you start antidepressants; early crazy dreams, violent vivid dreams etc for a couple of weeks. Then the most amazing sleep followed and I felt so buoyant (till
Covid fucked it all! It's starting to settle again now.)

To me it has been a very effective antidepressant. I later read it can be used as such post natally. Obviously can affect milk supply when very young. I started hrt when feeding my toddler. Noticed a slight dip I think but he was really reducing anyway too.

@TackyTriceratops

We have so much of the evidence already.

Honestly, I'm both raging and terrified for women, halfway through this book:

Oestrogen Matters: Why Taking Hormones in Menopause Can Improve Women's Well-Being and Lengthen Their Lives - Without Raising the Risk of Breast Cancer [[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0349421773/ref=cm]]swwrcppapiii_W3C8TKYV475QEA0Y2D44

I’m appreciating the clarity of the title ;

I’ll check it out. My mind has just been blown by the Sackler programme on a pharma situation in US but will read with open mind

@TackyTriceratops

The most bizarre "side effect" of starting oestrogen patches for me was similar effects to what can happen when you start antidepressants; early crazy dreams, violent vivid dreams etc for a couple of weeks. Then the most amazing sleep followed and I felt so buoyant (till Covid fucked it all! It's starting to settle again now.)

To me it has been a very effective antidepressant. I later read it can be used as such post natally. Obviously can affect milk supply when very young. I started hrt when feeding my toddler. Noticed a slight dip I think but he was really reducing anyway too.

Tacky did you notice any weight changes?

I'm avoiding it myself, yes there's proven benefits but I don't want to have medication in my body unless it's absolutely essential. There is a cancer risk associated, not large but statistically significant, something I don't want to increase because I'm already higher risk due to family history.

I'm coping ok, bad sleep but that aside I can't complain. If it gets worse then I can also change my mind, no harm in trying to avoid.

@Newgirls

Actually everyone is different, some women do sail through and have no long term impact at all apart from no periods. We differ. I personally don't like the idea of taking any medication that isn't essential so I'm not going to take hrt unless my life is unbearable. I'm 7 months without periods now and no significant problems except insomnia which I've had since 42

I didn't want to rely on it for so many years and you get no help paying for prescriptions so it is quite costly

My mind has just been blown by the Sackler programme on a pharma situation in US but will read with open mind

That has occurred to me.

I've been so debilitated by it it's not been an option. Close to giving up work and loosing my marriage. It's been like cfs for me.

I'm hoping that when my youngest starts school I can do lots of regular strength training and be more on top of life so that I don't need to "rely" on it long term, at the same time I will only stop if I can cope.

Weight has been tricky for the first time ever in my life since 41 and I had my second child; I actually started to feel like metabolism was getting back on track after 3 months on hrt. Then I got covid and peri symptoms all came back. I think I'm nearly 11 weeks(?) post covid and can feel things settling again.

I take HRT because I don't want my old age to be like my mum's. She had osteoporosis and arthritis in her 60s and was forced to slow down physically -to the point of taking virtually no exercise. By her 80s she had severe dementia. I am pretty sure the lack of movement had a massive impact on her cognitive function. If the only thing my HRT does for definite is help keep my bones healthy then that could/should make a massive difference to my long term health.

@JaniieJones

The stats show a small increase in BC over time with some types of HRT. That is NOT the same at all as saying there is a 5 years maximum.

Also please understand that all the research showing this increase excluded Utrogestan as the research was done before it was mainstream treatment.

You will find stats in the BMJ and the BMS which state that there is no increase in BC in women using Utrogestan for the first five years. There is data from two other research trials over a long timescale - one EN3 (in France) and another in Denmark, which showed no increase with much longer use (over 12 years.)

There is other guidance that says categorically that there is no time limit on HRT and women can take it for as long as they wish if , for them they a) understand the small risks and b) for them personally the benefits outweigh those.

You can find this on the British Menopause Society website.

Also- to confuse it all more- the data that is used for these stats includes all the research ever done, including the flawed WHI and MW studies, as well as research papers never peer reviewed ( so not necessarily valid.)

Also please understand that all the research showing this increase excluded Utrogestan as the research was done before it was mainstream treatment.

Thanks that's what I wondered

@Downton57

I take HRT because I don't want my old age to be like my mum's. She had osteoporosis and arthritis in her 60s and was forced to slow down physically -to the point of taking virtually no exercise. By her 80s she had severe dementia. I am pretty sure the lack of movement had a massive impact on her cognitive function. If the only thing my HRT does for definite is help keep my bones healthy then that could/should make a massive difference to my long term health.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Yes bone health is so important.

A point was made in a talk I recently watched that hrt or treatments for vaginal atrophy are v important for elderly women, but starting it earlier and being aware of the issue.

incontinence due to vaginal atrophy can lead to more risk of falls as women develop urgency; if bones are weak due to osteoporosis the likely hood of breaking is huge. Breaking hips when you're older can be horrific for life expectancy. Utis are very common in elderly women and can be very debilitating.

Pilates is also very good for bone health, just to add.

I was an avoider. Very much of the opinion that it was a natural part of life and would just 'get through it' - well my last MP was aged 53. So I was post menopause at 54. .. roll on 5 more years and those symptoms were just as prevalent. Hadn't slept a whole night in over a decade thanks to hot flushes. My brain was getting foggier and foggier yet still I thought 'not for me' - mainly because I thought I had missed the boat.

5 months ago I heard a pie e on womens hour with a menopause specialist from a big London hospital. It inspired me to visit the GP as she said ' life doesn't have to be like that' ..

It's a revelation and has changed my life unrecognisably. I'm on a patch I change twice a week.
I have 'get up and go' (thought it had got up and gone !) . I am far happier. I have energy. The fog has lifted and I've even gained promotion after stagnating for a decade.. best of all... I sleep . All night. Complete convert here.

@TackyTriceratops

My mind has just been blown by the Sackler programme on a pharma situation in US but will read with open mind

That has occurred to me.

I've been so debilitated by it it's not been an option. Close to giving up work and loosing my marriage. It's been like cfs for me.

I'm hoping that when my youngest starts school I can do lots of regular strength training and be more on top of life so that I don't need to "rely" on it long term, at the same time I will only stop if I can cope.

Weight has been tricky for the first time ever in my life since 41 and I had my second child; I actually started to feel like metabolism was getting back on track after 3 months on hrt. Then I got covid and peri symptoms all came back. I think I'm nearly 11 weeks(?) post covid and can feel things settling again.

I’d do the same in that position

I’d have no issues with taking it if I had symptoms I wanted to go

I’m really glad it helped so much

@JinglingHellsBells
I haven’t read the full thread but I assure you people regularly claim on these threads that HRT protects against dementia . I think in this case it was @ new girls
There is no firm evidence whatsoever for this.

'You will find stats in the BMJ and the BMS which state that there is no increase in BC in women using Utrogestan for the first five years. There is data from two other research trials over a long timescale - one EN3 (in France) and another in Denmark, which showed no increase with much longer use (over 12 years.)'

Interesting isn't it. Conflicting though, one says no increase for the first 5 yrs then others no increase over 12yrs. It's hard to make an informed decisions. Time will tell we'll have to all reconvene in 10 yrs and see what the advice is then!