Anyone choosing NOT to use HRT?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Does anyone feel that HRT isn't for them or feel happier without it?

'I find some of the posters who seem quite ‘anti hrt’ a bit like that Netflix film Don’t look up.There is so much info out there - books, websites etc that seem to now favour hrt or explain clearly the pros and cons but some posters keep saying ‘where’s the evidence’.

Often conflicting info. I posted upthread a study that claimed hrt can increase the risk of prolapse. No one commented. So which do we believe, those that say it reduces risk or those that say it increases the risk?

We want consistent believable advice. Not from clinicians with private clinics but from clinicians who can also interpret data but don't have a financial interest in it. That would be unbiased. The BMS article was ok but it was more general advice not actual stats from long term hrt users.

I'm absolutely pro choice obviously and am interested to hear stories from both hrt users and none hrt users, but you must be able to see the tone of some of the pro hrt posters can be incredibly patronising. It will put others off contributing or asking questions. We don't want to be told 'Google it'. Don't come on a forum if that's the attitude.

@JaniieJones
I agree with what you say.

HRT is a very complex issue . Posters here who attempt to shout down nuance and disagreement don’t do themselves any favours.

The pro HRT movement is hardly recent @SusannaQueen**

I was quoting someone else saying "this new HRT movement."

This new ‘pro hrt’ movement/discussion is only a couple of years old.

Couple = 2, right?
Is PP saying nobody was pro-HRT before 2019???

Except on MN in 2009.
Or on BBC in 2002
Or in the Newspapers in 1996

But sure, play a "Woe is me nobody was talking about HRT or told me I might like it" card if that makes you happy.

Somewhere I actually HAVE a 1970s edition of Our Bodies Our Selves. I'll try to find it to see what it says about HRT.

This provides a good lay summary for anyone interested:

www.womens-health-concern.org/help-and-advice/factsheets/hrt-the-history/

JaniieJones

'I find some of the posters who seem quite ‘anti hrt’ a bit like that Netflix film Don’t look up.There is so much info out there - books, websites etc that seem to now favour hrt or explain clearly the pros and cons but some posters keep saying ‘where’s the evidence’

My mum took HRT for nearly twenty years and swore by it, until she discovered the origins of what she was taking (she’s a vegetarian and concerned about animal rights: this was some time ago, no doubt there are synthetics now(?))
She gradually weaned herself off but unfortunately the symptoms also gradually returned. Unless (then) she was happy to take it forevermore, it simply delayed the process. After about 3 years, her symptoms subsided naturally.

Based on her experience and the advice of my oncologist, I declined. I’m 58 now and symptom free: I have one prescription, which I’m assured will not bring about any long-term side effects for my one intolerable symptom if left untreated (night sweats, severe).

@MrsSkylerWhite

JaniieJones

'I find some of the posters who seem quite ‘anti hrt’ a bit like that Netflix film Don’t look up.There is so much info out there - books, websites etc that seem to now favour hrt or explain clearly the pros and cons but some posters keep saying ‘where’s the evidence’

My mum took HRT for nearly twenty years and swore by it, until she discovered the origins of what she was taking (she’s a vegetarian and concerned about animal rights: this was some time ago, no doubt there are synthetics now(?))
She gradually weaned herself off but unfortunately the symptoms also gradually returned. Unless (then) she was happy to take it forevermore, it simply delayed the process. After about 3 years, her symptoms subsided naturally.

Based on her experience and the advice of my oncologist, I declined. I’m 58 now and symptom free: I have one prescription, which I’m assured will not bring about any long-term side effects for my one intolerable symptom if left untreated (night sweats, severe).

I have been taking HRT for 33 years. Mine is made from yams and always has been. It is bio identical. I researched the subject myself and didn’t listen to the ill informed. I am assuming your mother was on Premarin. I would never have touched that with a barge pole. Not only is it manufactured from horses urine it is a tablet taken orally and no way would I be taking HRT orally. I have explained way back on this thread that these days most people are prescribed gel, patches, or my preference implants.

I do find it odd that passing on information and sharing positive experiences is apparently not ok? My experience is personal to me and pleas don't denigrate it by suggesting I'm part of some sort of political HRT lobbying group. I'm not, I'm just a 45 year old woman who has struggled with symptoms who has a full time job and a disabled dependent to consider.

Honestly just do as you do - no one here is trying to make you have HRT - obviously it's your choice! Don't be cross that on a womens board with a subtopic called menopause that people will talk about HRT - some good ( and probably increasing thanks to media coverage) and some negative. There's not a gang! It's not 'organised' to alter your behaviors!!!

Personally speaking I knew basically eff all about it until recently- my mum is no longer alive and took HRT until she had a breast cancer diagnosis. She would have taken oral HRT.

I had zero idea until I looked into for myself of all that different types, protocols, newer research and actual risks / benefits.

Peoples personal Mumsnet experiences was part of the picture and you know what, it actually helped.

It helped to read up on peoples experiences - for example I take utrogestan ( body identical progesterone) 12 days a month. Some ladies here haven't got on with it orally and some have taken it differently ( vaginally) and seen an improvement. That was helpful. It was also helpful to hear that taking it at night was better and on an empty stomach.

There are individuals who are passionate about the benefits of HRT for sure - there are individuals who have an issue with HRT too.
There are also plenty of people who are just sharing their knowledge in good faith in the hope it actually helps someone ask their GP the right questions and I'm actually pretty upset at that being labeled as being part of some shadowy sinister 'pro HRT ' lobby.

I'll keep sharing though because like the ladies whose experience helped me, hopefully I'm helping someone else ( albeit silently).

[quote bulletjournalfail]@JaniieJones
I agree with what you say.

HRT is a very complex issue . Posters here who attempt to shout down nuance and disagreement don’t do themselves any favours.[/quote]
There are 30 research papers linked to at the summary of this document.

This was left by me to the questions about hrt and osteoporosis where some posters were asking for data which they felt was missing from a previous link to the BMS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5643776/

No one posting here should expect anyone else to find out everything for them, if they want more facts. It's your responsibility.

Because it's all out there. And often when links are left, some posters ignore them or don't even say thanks, so it's very hard to help those who choose not to help themselves.

I do find it odd that passing on information and sharing positive experiences is apparently not ok?

I’m not sure why this is suggested as it’s not the case. Information is great but we’re at the stage where people post ‘DYOR’ or ask why you don’t ‘believe’ BMS or say it’s like Don’t Look Up -well sure I’ll do that then and take it off the thread and do own research, fine.

All for hearing about it otherwise I wouldn’t have asked questions for more studies etc

I'm surprised to see so many posts from people who don't see advice from doctors who have private practices as valid.

As I understand it, many many consultants and surgeons within the NHS also work in private medicine. I don't believe this invalidates their work.

Dr Newson actually gives a lot of time to menopause research, information and care for free. She (or someone who works with her) has twice replied to queries I privately put to her on Instagram. I'd been unable to find the info I required anywhere else and my questions were answered thoroughly and helpfully within a day, for free!

Absolutely, do your own research on people, etc. But it doesn't seem fair or useful to dismiss experts simply because they work privately.

@missfliss. Well said!

I am very happy to give facts, figures and links to posters who are at a cross roads themselves about HRT and who find GPs unhelpful.

I am not impressed, by posters who join in these threads yet it's never for their own personal information or circumstances, as they have already made up their minds that HRT is not for them.

It's easy to see who is genuinely in need help and info and those are just 'coming along for the ride'

It's this @JinglingHellsBells

Because it's all out there. And often when links are left, some posters ignore them or don't even say thanks, so it's very hard to help those who choose not to help themselves.

You have posted loads of links throughout in response to questions

Then are accused of not providing enough evidence or of the right type

Then asked to provide links again later.

Then those aren't good enough, or you are asked to defend the content or way the data is presented

You can't win

Like it's your job!

That's why it's entirely reasonable afyer having spent time trying to help signpost that you are correct - it's not your role to convince people, you can tell them where some information is but actually it's down to them to read it and find their own and do that bit.

To then not only be constantly challenged and suggestions made that there is some sort of 'pro HRT' group is galling.

I've never spoken to the other people here - I'm just a single individual as is Bullet.

The short answer is - for links RTFT and then if that isn't enough - yes go google!

It's this @JinglingHellsBells

Because it's all out there. And often when links are left, some posters ignore them or don't even say thanks, so it's very hard to help those who choose not to help themselves.

You have posted loads of links throughout in response to questions

Then are accused of not providing enough evidence or of the right type

Then asked to provide links again later.

Then those aren't good enough, or you are asked to defend the content or way the data is presented

You can't win

Like it's your job!

That's why it's entirely reasonable afyer having spent time trying to help signpost that you are correct - it's not your role to convince people, you can tell them where some information is but actually it's down to them to read it and find their own and do that bit.

To then not only be constantly challenged and suggestions made that there is some sort of 'pro HRT' group is galling.

I've never spoken to the other people here - I'm just a single individual as is Bullet.

The short answer is - for links RTFT and then if that isn't enough - yes go google!

Sorry about the double post

@JinglingHellsBells

I am very happy to give facts, figures and links to posters who are at a cross roads themselves about HRT and who find GPs unhelpful.

I am not impressed, by posters who join in these threads yet it's never for their own personal information or circumstances, as they have already made up their minds that HRT is not for them.

It's easy to see who is genuinely in need help and info and those are just 'coming along for the ride'

I haven’t made up my mind

I’ve been honest on why I’m interested but undecided - I don’t have bad symptoms but preventative issues are worth looking at. But then if other methods as mentioned by BMS are good then I’d like to use those.

So a lot of this for me does depend heavily on studies behind statements

Some stuff has been a bit off in response (Don’t Look Up etc) but otherwise I do appreciate studies etc people have linked

I agree 100% @Butimstillhungry

Applying the logic of some posts here about private drs, would they apply that same logic to any dr working privately, who prescribed any medication?

If you disagree with private medical treatment, start a new thread on that, ideally in AIBU, because the same logic would apply across the board.

If women want to pay for private appts, that is their choice. If you feel it's morally wrong, then just don't go there yourself.

I'm so glad you get it @missfliss :)
For that reason I will step off this thread and save my time for women who really need it and who are willing to put in a bit of work themselves. (Rather than those just coming along for the party.)

@JinglingHellsBells

I agree 100% *@Butimstillhungry*

Applying the logic of some posts here about private drs, would they apply that same logic to any dr working privately, who prescribed any medication?

If you disagree with private medical treatment, start a new thread on that, ideally in AIBU, because the same logic would apply across the board.

If women want to pay for private appts, that is their choice. If you feel it's morally wrong, then just don't go there yourself.

I don’t think it needs a separate thread

It’s all part of the landscape we are currently in.

Me too @Butimstillhungry - there isn't a cut and dried line between private docs and NHS docs - they are often the same.

Louise newson for example runs most of her organisation as a non profit and has made up to date training available to GPs for free - since there is no mandatory Menopause training for them

@JinglingHellsBells

I'm so glad you get it *@missfliss* :) For that reason I will step off this thread and save my time for women who really need it and who are willing to put in a bit of work themselves. (Rather than those just coming along for the party.)

Yup jingling - thanks for the time you have put in - I'm sure it has helped and been appreciated even if not voiced.

Also stepping away - I can't add anything further really and I'll just be repeating myself ad nauseum.

Good luck everyone who has questions - I hope you get the information you need to make your own decisions as appropriate for you 🍀

@MarshaBradyo

I do find it odd that passing on information and sharing positive experiences is apparently not ok?

I’m not sure why this is suggested as it’s not the case. Information is great but we’re at the stage where people post ‘DYOR’ or ask why you don’t ‘believe’ BMS or say it’s like Don’t Look Up -well sure I’ll do that then and take it off the thread and do own research, fine.

All for hearing about it otherwise I wouldn’t have asked questions for more studies etc

Aye, same. I had expected this thread to be more about balancing risks and benefits and possible alternatives to HRT inc lifestyle changes.

The apparent anger at women who are not 100% convinced of the necessity for all women to take HRT took me by surprise tbh. It certainly doesn't reflect the NHS information/guidelines, which seem far more nuanced.

I will be looking into the evidence further. And assessing it as best I can. And I do appreciate the links - just not the drama.

'For that reason I will step off this thread and save my time for women who really need it and who are willing to put in a bit of work themselves'

There we go again, patronising dismissive comments. We all are willing to put in a bit of work, but our point is the myriad of studies are often long winded, wordy, full of terminology difficult for some to understand and conflicting. I posted upthread a study that said hrt can increase the risk of prolapse. What are we supposed to think when we see stuff like that.

I wonder how many of the estimated 100k osteoporosis related deaths could be saved if we all took hrt. Just an estimate, measured against the small but real increase in cancer. These estimates would be really useful.