Anyone choosing NOT to use HRT?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Does anyone feel that HRT isn't for them or feel happier without it?

Are there any studies that show a decrease in dementia / bone fragility etc after prolonged HRT?

I think it's also a killer in the short term. I was suicidal before HRT.

@MarshaBradyo

Are there any studies that show a decrease in dementia / bone fragility etc after prolonged HRT?

Unfortunately I don’t know how to do links but the last paper I read was on NPR.org written by Jon Hamilton on the subject. It was based on the Alzheimer’s Association International Conference back in 2018 reports. We all need to do our own research TBH. As for the osteoporosis information JinglingHellsBells gave a link to the most recent paper on the subject at 14:26:15 yesterday.

Ok I’ve now read the BMS document and it is pretty good, check ups and specialists in place sound great

I like the recommendations generally

I wish they’d qualify some statements such as

‘HRT has been shown to have a significant protective effect against osteoporosis and related fragility fractures.’

‘Given the potential cardiovascular beneficial effects reported with HRT initiated in women under the age of 60 this is a further aspect that should be considered as part of the benefits/risks assessment when counselling women about HRT.’

With data but maybe I missed a reference to it

@MarshaBradyo

Ok I’ve now read the BMS document and it is pretty good, check ups and specialists in place sound great

I like the recommendations generally

I wish they’d qualify some statements such as

‘HRT has been shown to have a significant protective effect against osteoporosis and related fragility fractures.’

‘Given the potential cardiovascular beneficial effects reported with HRT initiated in women under the age of 60 this is a further aspect that should be considered as part of the benefits/risks assessment when counselling women about HRT.’

With data but maybe I missed a reference to it

This is the link @esspee was referring to.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/20533691211064037
Bottom of page 3 HRT and osteoporosis.

I am sure that I also posted a very long extract also from the BMS site on the use of HRT in the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis.

It will be there somewhere amongst the 300+ posts here, or you can find it on the BMS website, if you search the right hand column of the Home page where they list info, or go to the drop down menu and look at consensus statements, or use their search facility and put in 'osteo' etc.

Looking at your post above, there are often appendices to statements, where they list the research papers.

BUT, in all honesty, the BMS which is composed of highly experienced specialists are not making up stuff- it's based on science.

It takes time- I've spent years reading stuff- to find papers and if you want to know more, google scholar and various medical sites have it all there.

If, for example, you take the line you quoted and put it into google, zillions of info will come up. ‘HRT has been shown to have a significant protective effect against osteoporosis and related fragility fractures.

Take time to explore and research for yourself.

I was looking for a footnote on those statements, which they do have for the breast cancer statement linking to the study.

Not sure why not those as similar but will see what else they have.

@MarshaBradyo I put that statement into google and 31K references came up.

Here is one. It's research done by the BMS- names of drs and scientists at the top.

density and HRT

There are many many others if you don't 'believe' the BMS.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053369120957514

Why do people get so arsey?

I don’t get it. I’ve said overall it was helpful and good.

I didn’t say I didn’t ‘believe’ them but in terms of information they did provide a link for another statement and generally it is helpful.

Anyway weird tension over it. Finding it odd so will say adieu

Esspee I'm really sorry about your mum and your aunt. That sounds really hard. Sending all best.

I think Marsha people get arsey because there is a dominating tone here that HRT is the answer to everything . If you tried it and didn’t find it helpful or even found it gave new side effects ‘ try harder!’

NICE guidelines currently say HRT is for the relief of menopause symptoms and not for disease prevention ( with the exception of early onset osteoporosis which would not be a concern of many perimenopsal women )

People are flinging around statements like ‘HRT prevents dementia’ ( proof please)
HRT prevents prolapse ( proof please)
Also the more papers you read the more you’ll see that they are often done on small numbers ( one which was linked to the possibility that HRT prevents heart disease was based on 80 women )
Hopefully an nhs study can be done one large numbers of women over a long period of time so we will all feel a bit more confident about the facts.

Re a previous poster I must say I’m also heartily sick of hearing the two drs with private clinics quoted here.
There are other drs , with other views

@MarshaBradyo

Why do people get so arsey?

I don’t get it. I’ve said overall it was helpful and good.

I didn’t say I didn’t ‘believe’ them but in terms of information they did provide a link for another statement and generally it is helpful.

Anyway weird tension over it. Finding it odd so will say adieu

It is a funny board, can be patronising and bossy if we dare ask questions and challenge things posted. I am on the fence and have a vested interest as have family and friends peri and post meno, some on hrt some not so it is a topic often discussed irl.

I think the BMS's our viewpoint/our estimates 'paper' would have been of greater use is they'd actually included estimates on how many lives could be saved. I shouldn't have to Google and trawl through the myriad of often conflicting studies. If professionals put together information to be disseminated then all relevant info should be included.

The SAGE doc is more useful. Why don't BMS include some of the info edited clearly for the layperson?! For example of the 100k deaths related to fractures how many do they think could be prevented.

Red magazine this month had a tiny article saying bone density after periods stop, falls by 1% each year. Each year! The writer recommended running every day. This info needs to more widely known.

@ArabellaScott

Esspee I'm really sorry about your mum and your aunt. That sounds really hard. Sending all best.

Thank you Arabella that is so kind of you. I do hope you find a way that suits you to deal with the menopause. Best wishes.

I find some of the posters who seem quite ‘anti hrt’ a bit like that Netflix film Don’t look up.

There is so much info out there - books, websites etc that seem to now favour hrt or explain clearly the pros and cons but some posters keep saying ‘where’s the evidence’.

This new ‘pro hrt’ movement/discussion is only a couple of years old. Compare that to the decades of family history, culture, soldiering on, lack of funding etc before so it isn’t surprising that women are suspicious.

I hope this thread helps some people. I feel it will all pop up again ina week or two!

@milveycrohn

Age 65. Periods stopped about 55. Can't really remember exact age. Never took HRT. Never any symptoms of anything. No night sweats or anything.

Exact same here. Was probably more like 49 or 50. No symptoms at all, no hot flushes, nothing. So no, I wouldn't want HRT.

The things that bugged me weren't hot flushes or period related. A general sense that I wasn't myself - I was depressed, then angry, didn't remember things as well as before or find it easy to find the right words to say - I've felt a lot better on oestrogen. Oh dryness, that was a physical symptom to be fair.

This new ‘pro hrt’ movement/discussion is only a couple of years old. Compare that to the decades of family history, culture, soldiering on, lack of funding etc before so it isn’t surprising that women are suspicious.

Wasn't HRT more readily prescribed in the past for a while? I remember it being a thing when I was maybe a teen, then an actress (I have Jill Gascoigne in my head?) said she thought it was responsible for her breast cancer, there was a study linking it to breast cancer. So I guess people are wary, because we've been here before.

Just Googled and it wasn't Jill Gascoigne?

Sad when people don’t read the whole thread. If your oestrogen levels dropped gradually towards menopause then the early symptoms might not appear. That does not mean you won’t experience the serious issues which appear usually very late 60s to70s. Such as osteoporosis, vaginal atrophy, prolapse, osteoarthritis, dementia/Alzheimer’s, sleep problems, stress incontinence etc. etc.
If you are aware that oestrogen depletion leads to a poorer quality of life in old age surely you would research it then, dependent on your personal circumstances, make an informed decision about whether or not you should take advantage of medical advances.
What you should not do is stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to investigate what may lie ahead.

@Newgirls

Red magazine this month had a tiny article saying bone density after periods stop, falls by 1% each year. Each year! The writer recommended running every day. This info needs to more widely known.

Not sure where they got 1% from! Everything out there says it's from 2-5% per annum for 5 years then slows down slightly to 1%.

Excellent research paper here with all the stats for anyone who was asking for more. And with relevance to how long women live post menopause. And that osteo usually sets in as @Esspee said within 10-15 years post meno.

Give yourselves the rest of the day to read and absorb it all :)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5643776/

I find some of the posters who seem quite ‘anti hrt’ a bit like that Netflix film Don’t look up.

I find this pretty rude tbh.

My position is I don’t feel I need it due to symptoms so I’m going to want good info on preventative measures

I also have not used other hormonal interventions like the pill ever so it needs to be evidenced

Fine if people want others to research instead of ask questions re studies.

I’ll look for other threads / resources.

Plus the BMS article says this about a one size fits all. So I don’t see why we can’t acknowledge individual approaches

‘Whilst HRT can play an important role, women also need to be made aware that changes in lifestyle and diet (exercise, optimising weight and reducing alcohol intake) can all help in alleviating menopausal symptoms, and improve later health. Management should also be individualised to the needs of each woman rather than a ‘one size fits all’ approach.’

The pro HRT movement is hardly recent @SusannaQueen.

I “joined the club” 33 years ago when I had an unexpected hysterectomy. There were many of us at that time searching for and sharing information.

What is appalling is that over 30 years later it is not common knowledge amongst the perimenopausal that menopause is not just hot flushes etc. but it affects the rest of your life. Medical advances have provided solutions, unfortunately some women cannot take advantage of these but solutions are available for the majority…..if they know about it.

Don’t rule out HRT without discussing your personal situation with a medical professional who is up to date with the subject. It’s your old age, your quality of life. You won’t always be young.

I find some of the posters who seem quite ‘anti hrt’ a bit like that Netflix film Don’t look up.

That's pretty rude. And to what purpose? Totally unnecessary.

I started it as I was going a bit funny peculiar amongst other fun symptoms. I definitely feel brighter for it. I'm really glad I did it as I think I would have been a suicide risk without it. I'm really getting back to normal now and most nights I actually sleep through.