Lack of sleep is ruining my life. Any advice?

[desperatelydunin]

I’m 47 and for the past year my sleep has got worse and worse. I’m OK falling asleep but wake up a few hours later and am lucky to get the odd 10 minutes after that.
I’ve cut out alcohol and caffeine completely, I don’t eat after 7pm, I exercise intensively every other day and have a long brisk walk every day. I’m literally at the end of my tether.

I could have written your post OP to the letter. I don’t think there is any solution except as well as the exercise I also meditate and get myself back to sleep that way.

I usually wake up at 3.30 a.m. and might be awake for an hour but I clear my mind and eventually drop off until about 6.30.

I’ve recently started eating far more protein and have found iron helpful.

I’m a year older than you and went for three months recently without having a period. It was such a temporary relief and makes me think I may only have a couple of years left to endure. I slept better in those months.

[quote ineedahaircuttwo]@heymammy - yes of course. I should have said but couldn't sleep last night even after taking CBD oil

I have been using the Green Stem oral drops. I've tried the black cherry flavour but prefer the strawberry. They do pastilles like sweets as well. I think it is about £16 a bottle from Amazon. The Green Stem website sometimes has offers.

I am on HRT but it hasn't helped my sleep. With the the CBD drops I can usually get a good night's sleep 4 out of 5 nights during the week so it has helped.[/quote]
Thank you so much!

Insomnia asper my username has been my biggest challenge with the menopause. Struggling to fall asleep which I managed to sort taking melatonin but waking up all the time and an overall feeling that I never got into deep sleep. I even felt aware that I wasn't in deep sleep even when asleep.

The resulting fatigue during the day has been intolerable.

I tried 4 regime of hrt which not only didn't help but made me feel worse. I tried every possible over the counter remedy, natural treatment, sleep programme, yoga, meditation, even some treatment for ADHD that supposed to help. I took amytriptiline which worked a bit but only if taken once a week or so.

My doctor insisted I tried antidepressants but I'd read here that it didn't help when the problem was related with the menopause hence insisting with different hrt regime.

In the end, as a last resort, I decided to give them a try despite having no issue with depression. At first I felt awfully sleepy during the day but no better at night. I persisted it it took 7 weeks before I started to feel the benefits. I'm now in week 9 and I sleep so much better. I fall asleep quickly and if I wake up at night, I back asleep in minutes. No more waking wide awake at 4am. I wake up at 7am and feel so comfy in bed.

I feel so much better during the day too and have found some positive energy again. I so wish I'd given them a chance much sooner rather than leaving it as the last resort.

Boots Sleepeaze is good, same anti histamine as in Night Nurse.

Vivainsomnia- which antidepressants do you take?
I’ve also tried lots of different hrt regimes and although they have dealt with the other symptoms they haven’t dealt with the insomnia.
One thing that seemed to help a bit is to take the progesterone in the morning an hour before breakfast. I’m taking a daily progesterone.

I was in dire straits in peri with insomnia. HRT sorted me out within days.

@vivainsomnia

Insomnia asper my username has been my biggest challenge with the menopause. Struggling to fall asleep which I managed to sort taking melatonin but waking up all the time and an overall feeling that I never got into deep sleep. I even felt aware that I wasn't in deep sleep even when asleep.

The resulting fatigue during the day has been intolerable.

I tried 4 regime of hrt which not only didn't help but made me feel worse. I tried every possible over the counter remedy, natural treatment, sleep programme, yoga, meditation, even some treatment for ADHD that supposed to help. I took amytriptiline which worked a bit but only if taken once a week or so.

My doctor insisted I tried antidepressants but I'd read here that it didn't help when the problem was related with the menopause hence insisting with different hrt regime.

In the end, as a last resort, I decided to give them a try despite having no issue with depression. At first I felt awfully sleepy during the day but no better at night. I persisted it it took 7 weeks before I started to feel the benefits. I'm now in week 9 and I sleep so much better. I fall asleep quickly and if I wake up at night, I back asleep in minutes. No more waking wide awake at 4am. I wake up at 7am and feel so comfy in bed.

I feel so much better during the day too and have found some positive energy again. I so wish I'd given them a chance much sooner rather than leaving it as the last resort.

Which medication did you end up using? Which antidepressant?

@vivainsomnia IF (and only a guess here) the 4 types of hrt were the same but different (that can happen- they might all contain Norethisterone or MPA_) you'd get the same bad outcome.
In your case you'd have been better off seeing a menopause expert to help ( and apologies in advance if you did!)

One type of HRT ( ie micronised progesterone ) is actually a sedative which is why so many women love it.

Is that on the list you tried?

I take HRT AND an antidepressant called mirtazapine.
I take 7.5 which is the dose for insomnia.
It took a while to work but now I sleep really well….just like my pre menopausal days.
As is said over and over, everyone is different.

Testosterone is worth looking at. Quite often it's the icing on the cake if oestrogen is doing its job

@SoyMarina

I take HRT AND an antidepressant called mirtazapine. I take 7.5 which is the dose for insomnia. It took a while to work but now I sleep really well….just like my pre menopausal days. As is said over and over, everyone is different.

I'm on HRT and a low dose of mirtazapine too. Before I started HRT, I had been put on a 15mg nightly dose of mirtazapine. As my HRT ramped up, I've gotten down to a much lower dose. I've thought about discontinuing it entirely, but I'd hate to return to the anxious, sleepless person I was. Any side effects on your end? How long have you been on it?

Sharonz I've been on mirt since September, no side effects other than a dry mouth at the beginning and can't remember any others so they can't have been bad!
Which HRT are you on?
I'm on oestrogel, 3 and a half to 4 pumps and the merina coil.
Still not sure I've got it right though.
I'm 56.

HRT helped me for a lot of things, but not insomnia.

Only thing that's helped is reducing the time window in which I eat - so I have breakfast around 10:30, then tea/dinner around 6-7pm, then nothing after that. I think it works for me as my body isn't working to digest food when I'm trying to unwind.

I'm on .125 estradiol patches and 200 mg progesterone. I've been using mirtazapine since April. Before perimenopause, I'd never had trouble sleeping and had never used an antidepressant. This is still hard to accept at times.

I feel the same Sharonz but after almost a year of bad sleep I had to give in and take mirtazapine and I have no intention of stopping it anytime soon (as in ever!)
Merry Christmas Menopausalers!

@SoyMarina

I feel the same Sharonz but after almost a year of bad sleep I had to give in and take mirtazapine and I have no intention of stopping it anytime soon (as in ever!) Merry Christmas Menopausalers!

SoyMarina,

I had to make the same pro/con decision, but I wanted to see what my minimum effective dose was. My insomnia came in quick and hard and seemingly out of nowhere. I know we are not taking it for traditional depression, but it must be doing something for us. Is it a slight serotonin boost that we need due to Menopause, to help our systems calm down?

Sharonzwhat dose of mirtazapine are you on now?
I would like to take a smaller dose than 7.5 but think the pill is too small to be cut by a pill cutter properly and I would end up with crumbs.

I usually take 3.75. I use a pill cutter. 7.5 is considered a low dose though. That's considered a geriatric dose.

This is happening to me. I've known a while my sleep is not great but ignored it as what could I do about it.
Few weeks ago got a smart watch that records my sleep among other things and I am stunned that I get a whole two hours a night at most.
I'm waiting til I get a pattern or a couple of months of readings then I was going to take it to the drs to prove my sleep is shit. Sad that I believe I need proof before a dr will take it seriously.

On the magnesium thing, I buy magnesium crystals that you lob into water like Dead Sea salts and either soak my feet in a tub or lay in the bath until my aches go. It's a recent find and I'm a convert. If you wanted to just try it then
www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/westlab-magnesium-flakes-60013034?skuid=013034&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwqCOBhCdARIsAEPyW9nEQNvr2nzCKe3Tph6r51g8pjlbHiIRARhgc3hCSqGp-Lv6AkAz6tsaAk9oEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

This pack will do two baths or three or four foot baths and can be found in home bargains cheaper. Also Amazon etc
Just sling half a pack in the bath, sit/lay in it for as long as you want or until the aches go.

@Terfydactyl

This is happening to me. I've known a while my sleep is not great but ignored it as what could I do about it. Few weeks ago got a smart watch that records my sleep among other things and I am stunned that I get a whole two hours a night at most. I'm waiting til I get a pattern or a couple of months of readings then I was going to take it to the drs to prove my sleep is shit. Sad that I believe I need proof before a dr will take it seriously.

On the magnesium thing, I buy magnesium crystals that you lob into water like Dead Sea salts and either soak my feet in a tub or lay in the bath until my aches go. It's a recent find and I'm a convert. If you wanted to just try it then
www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/westlab-magnesium-flakes-60013034?skuid=013034&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwqCOBhCdARIsAEPyW9nEQNvr2nzCKe3Tph6r51g8pjlbHiIRARhgc3hCSqGp-Lv6AkAz6tsaAk9oEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

This pack will do two baths or three or four foot baths and can be found in home bargains cheaper. Also Amazon etc
Just sling half a pack in the bath, sit/lay in it for as long as you want or until the aches go.

Thanks for chiming in. Magnesium never helped me sleep. Believe me, I tried most things before resorting to pharma and HRT. Are you on HRT?

You shouldn't need to accumulate months of sleep data to prove the point to doctors!

Honestly, the more I learn about perimenopause and all the body systems and body chemicals that are involved, I no longer believe that HRT resolves all of these symptoms. There is much more involved than just progesterone and estrogen when we go through this transition. There's also brain neurotransmitters, cortisol and more.

Even at higher HRT levels, we still won't achieve our former estrogen levels. That so many push HRT as the be all, end all solution is scientifically dishonest in my opinion.

Yes, HRT definitely has helped the symptoms I had, even my sleep improved but not totally. Hence, the use of a low dose antidepressant to help.

Sorry for not coming back sooner. The antidepressant I take is Paroxetine.

In your case you'd have been better off seeing a menopause expert to help ( and apologies in advance if you did!)
I did, I saw 2. First a GP specialising in the menopause and then a specialised gynae. I am at odd because it is Oestrogen that gave me horrible hot flushes. It got worse the longer I tried it. Progesterone helped a bit with sleep at first but at no more positive effect after a couple of weeks.

Yes on HRT too , gonna have to go find the name now cos I've forgotten.
Novofem 1mg. Was on patches for a couple years, forget name of em, and apart from barely sticking on they worked ok. Then you couldn't find them anywhere.
I don't know and I dont think anyone does, do symptoms of meno get worse, stay same but you notice more, will I need a higher dose of HRT before long, should I ask for a review.
Many questions and I'm loathe to bothering the dr just now with covid going on, but how much longer can I not sleep?

Sharonz have you explored testosterone? We produce three times more testosterone than estrogen when we are young. Your level may have depleted. It's often the icing on the cake and the missing piece of the jigsaw.

@vivainsomnia

Sorry for not coming back sooner. The antidepressant I take is Paroxetine.

In your case you'd have been better off seeing a menopause expert to help ( and apologies in advance if you did!)
I did, I saw 2. First a GP specialising in the menopause and then a specialised gynae. I am at odd because it is Oestrogen that gave me horrible hot flushes. It got worse the longer I tried it. Progesterone helped a bit with sleep at first but at no more positive effect after a couple of weeks.

Thanks for sharing! It definitely sounds like you did your due diligence in trying most reasonable things before getting on the antidepressant. I guess your serotonin levels had been thrown off by the hormone changes since it's working for you.

@Nickersnackersnockers

Sharonz have you explored testosterone? We produce three times more testosterone than estrogen when we are young. Your level may have depleted. It's often the icing on the cake and the missing piece of the jigsaw.

No, haven't tried testosterone yet, though this isn't the first time someone has mentioned it to me. I'd have to see/find a different provider for it. How would that help with sleep?