Has anyone gone through menopause without hrt

[Jakc]

I’m due to get radical hysterectomy but for medical reasons won’t be able to take HRT afterwards and due to the op will obviously be thrown straight in to menopause. Really scared to be honest about how I’ll cope with that

@Stickytreacle

While it's great that hrt has worked for some, the op has stated that she will be unable to take it, so saying how people can't possibly cope without it isn't exactly helpful, plenty of us have and are managing without hrt, whether through choice or necessity. I do feel that those who choose not to take it come under fire from those who insist it is the only way to keep healthy. We need to respect others choices and consider those who can't take hrt, even if they wanted it.

I avoid the menopause section on MN because of the focus on HRT. Every thread goes the same way.

OP, there are many of us who have gone or are going through the menopause without HRT. I would look at some other sources of information as well as MN. Hope the surgery goes well for you

I avoid the menopause section on MN because of the focus on HRT. Every thread goes the same way
Me too

Again I am not saying hrt will increase dementia risk but prolific posters on this board must offer both arguments not just the one sided hrt supportive ones.

Also I find it incredible that the 'yes it increases the risk of breast cancer but so does being overweight' very questionable tbh. We don't actually encourage people to be overweight do we, we encourage people to lose weight

I would love a botox free celeb to tell their positive hrt free story one day on a documentary or on Lorraine, whatever.

@JaniieJones Have you just searched and plucked a piece on dementia and hrt out of google? Webmed is a US site it's not a reputable place to find real info. Also, in the US, they use very different types of HRT to what is used now in the UK.

Also, as a regular poster here, it's not my job to do every bit of research and post all of it. It's simply too time consuming.

I've left numerous links over time, to the BMS, the IMS and videos and podcasts with reputable drs like Panay where women who are interested can do their own research.

Re dementia, it seems logical to me that as women suffer most, and only women have and then lose estrogen, there just might be a link.

And yes, weight is an issue re cancer. But given only 10% of women use hrt and 67% of women are overweight (which increases risk hugely) the message isn't getting through, is it?

This is a huge source of up to date info and answers a lot of the questions (and corrects misunderstandings) on the menopause and HRT.

If you don't read anything else on meno and HRT, this is a real eye opener.

Panay is one of a handful of top UK meno experts, who does research, was a former chair of the BMS and runs the NHS meno clinic in London.

lizearlewellbeing.com/podcasts-videos/podcast/making-sense-of-hrt-nick-panay/

You can stream the episode below, or download the recording via iTunes or Spotify:

Inside the episode:
Nick explains why he decided to specialise in women’s hormonal health

What causes early menopause?
What treatments are available for early menopause?
What are the first signs of early menopause?
Can we prevent menopause?
How has HRT prescribing changed over the years?
Does the type of HRT matter?
What is micronised progesterone?
Is HRT plant-based?
What role do GPs play in menopause care?
What are the benefits of taking HRT?
Can mindfulness and CBT help menopause symptoms?
Can alternative therapies help?
Does progesterone boost mood?
Can you buy HRT online?
What is the difference between bio-identical and body-identical HRT?
Is compounded HRT safer?
What is DHEA?
Can women with breast cancer take HRT?
Do women need testosterone?
Is there a case for taking HRT early?
Can we continue to take HRT forever?
Should women without symptoms take HRT?

Resources mentioned in the show:
The NICE menopause guidelines
The International Menopause Society

@ lemonsyellow It’s all well and good people showing off the huge benefits of hrt. But it’s a bit upsetting to read all about it and how those who can’t take it are further damaging their health, mental and physical, when you’re not allowed to take it because you’ve already had cancer. I would love to take it

I know what you mean. I have had breast cancer. January 2019, menopause hit me like a sledghammer. Anxiety so awful I couldn't drive (it isn't great now!) flushes, insomnia, joint aches, the list went on. Went to my GP, no hope of HRT due to cancer history.

So, I asked to be refererred to CHELSEA AND WESTMINSTER HOSPITAL. Referral done and 4 months later, I left with transdermal HRT AND testosterone. That was over a year ago now and that I am still working on finding the right regime. BUT there IS hope. Transdermal HRT is one of the safest. There is NO concrete evidence that HRT causes BC. It can never be proved. Many GP's are sadly out of date with their knowledge and experience. Ask to be referred to a menopause specialist. They are listed on the British Menopause Society website. Don't suffer if you don't have to.

To the OP, is there a clinical reason why you will not be able to take any form of HRT post hysterectomy? Remember there are many types and doses available these days, not just oral. Transdermal is very safe and even women who have a history of cancer, are often able to take under the close monitoring and guidance of a specialist. Also read the book, Oestrogen Matters.

Very best of luck to you xxx

'Have you just searched and plucked a piece on dementia and hrt out of google?'

Yes. To demonstrate that for every bit of evidence supporting hrt there will be conflicting evidence against.

'Re dementia, it seems logical to me that as women suffer most, and only women have and then lose estrogen, there just might be a link'

That isn't how it works I afraid what you think is logical needs backing up by definitive research. What about the the research that proves an increase risk of dementia in hrt users do you discount that

Again, please don't misunderstand me. I fully support the right to choose and I wouldn't ever tell someone not to take it but this board often very pro hrt when caution and positive non hrt stories are also needed.

For many women the menopause is a very manageable process. It isn't an illness that necessarily needs treatment.

For many women the menopause is a very manageable process. It isn't an illness that necessarily needs treatment.

And unfortunately for many women, it becomes just that, an illness.
Low mood leads to depression. Joint aches can become painful, insomnia leads to anxiety and inability to function, which leads to time off sick, loss of income, poverty,,early retirement, low self worth, leading to those anti depressants which GPs are so keen to prescribe.

I think menopause for some, is brutal in truth.

'And unfortunately for many women, it becomes just that, an illness'

Yes but the op is scared and asked for positive stories without hrt. There are many.

Taking care of yourself health and fitness wise and managing expectations can really help. You don't have to take medication.

@JaniieJones I did read the link on dementia.

That link is one paper and does say the research may show an association, not a cause-effect. It said the risk may be 9-18 cases per 10,000 women. In percentage terms that is almost nothing. We all take far greater risks as drivers or passengers every day in a car but I doubt people stop going in cars even though 10 people die each day in the UK as a result of RTA.

Nothing in life is risk free, whether it's car or plane travel, or even taking an aspirin or meds for hay fever. It's about making a choice over what for you is worth a small risk (I'm not talking hrt, but life in general) against the benefits.

Everyone has a choice but it's got to be an informed choice. The only reason I post here is (usually) to point posters to the right info, rather than outdated info. If that comes over as being 'pro' something, it's based on BMS or Nice guidance.

It's up to

@JaniieJones

'And unfortunately for many women, it becomes just that, an illness'

Yes but the op is scared and asked for positive stories without hrt. There are many.

Taking care of yourself health and fitness wise and managing expectations can really help. You don't have to take medication.

Indeed. The OP hasn't even been acknowledged by many of the people mentioning HRT

Because it's not medication? It's a natural hormone supplement. If you're low on calcium you are not view as being "on medication"

'Because it's not medication? It's a natural hormone supplement. If you're low on calcium you are not view as being "on medication"

Taking hormones is taking medication. It is prescribed. If it was a supplement it would be with the multivits tescos.

The op wanted positive stories of the menopause without prescriptions and medication.

In Spain, HRT is available over the counter. During the shortages there was a 'black market' of women getting it to give to other women in the UK :)

I don't know if this means Spain is ahead or behind of us but you can waltz into a pharmacy and ask for your Estrogel. Maybe like we are now going to be able to get the Pill in that way.

In spain you can buy antibiotics over the counter, but you cant buy painkillers in the super market,. Chemists are completely different in Spain , do your point is meaningless

I'm now 60 and didn't want to try HRT - partly because my mother had breast cancer.

I had hot flushes but not very often and nothing I couldn't cope with.

People keep sayt that they 'got through' the menopause. It's not something you get through is it? It's the lack of a vital hormone (s) for life. That oestrogen isn't coming back.

@beguilingeyes

People keep sayt that they 'got through' the menopause. It's not something you get through is it? It's the lack of a vital hormone (s) for life. That oestrogen isn't coming back.

Exactly.

My meno consultant has a list of

1 Symptoms that are short term (for some women- the unlucky ones have them for life, he says.)

2 Symptoms/ illnesses that occur 10+ years post menopause caused by a loss of estrogen.

Many women don't appreciate that some of the illnesses (both physical and mental health) they have at 60 or older are a result of loss of estrogen.

That's not to say all women do. I noticed from some of my Mum's generation (now late 80s and 90s) is that a lot were on ADs etc from menopause onwards for their 'nerves' or drugs long-term for insomnia.

@beguilingeyes

People keep sayt that they 'got through' the menopause. It's not something you get through is it? It's the lack of a vital hormone (s) for life. That oestrogen isn't coming back.

Yes you're right. It is an ongoing thing, ageing if you like.

As I've said I am pro choice, however stating things as fact for example telling people it is 'likely to prevent dementia' is wrong. We just do not know this and as I've said other studies state it increases the risk of dementia.

Many people do not want to be tied to treatment, prescriptions and reviews. To have a bit of support that yes VA can be treated topically, anxiety and insomnia can be managed by self help methods like increased physical activity and good nutrition would be useful rather than the parroted 'contact Dr Newson for a 300 quid consult'.

Taking hormones is not always necessary. I'm sure there will be extreme cases but the medicalisation of the menopause by celebs who are paying a fortune at private clinics is inappropriate and not helpful imo.

How far are you on your onw meno journey @JaniieJones?

Have you managed to control symptoms with lifestyle measures?

I agree with your 100% that it's a good idea to try those first.

However, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of women who try HRT have a) tried ALL that stuff, to no avail and b) are very aware and also worried of the risks of HRT, but feel life is pretty miserable and even untenable without some other intervention.

If they can't cope with their careers because of insomnia and night sweats, teenage kids, ageing parents, divorce, etc etc which often all happen in their 50s-60s, the tiny risk (yet unproven - evidence both ways ) of dementia some years ahead is unlikely to be top of the list of worries.

Did you know that the peak age for female suicide is the 50s?

@JaniieJones This is the statement from the BMS 2020 looking at all the risks and benefits of HRT, if you are concerned about hrt and dementia.

The entire paper is online, if you want to read all of it.

Based on current evidence, women should be reassured that HRT is unlikely to increase the risk of dementia or to have a detrimental effect on cognitive function in women initiating HRT before the age of 60. However, HRT should not be initiated for the sole purpose of improving cognitive function or reducing the risk of dementia in postmenopausal women.

I had no symptoms, no hot flushes. Maybe some insomnia but I think it’s more likely that was because I was in an incredibly stressful job. A couple of very heavy periods and then they just stopped and that was it. No HRT. I think (understandably) we hear about the difficulties some women experience but nothing from women like me, because really there’s nothing to say. I would be interested to see statistics relating to the different experiences. Only one of my friends has had a really difficult experience and she went through a number of rounds of (sadly unsuccessful) IVF. I wonder if there’s any link?

This is also an interest read

www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20190307/hrt-linked-to-slight-rise-in-alzheimers-risk

Tbh jingling I'm all ears and am happy to read any new evidence, but you really do need to stop stating things as fact. I hope it is an area that there is ongoing large scale research.

However, I wouldn't go on a thread where someone is asking advice re hrt doses and say 'don't do it, it is not an illness' so perhaps in a situation like this thread we could all keep with the positive stories and not encourage prescriptions and 'treatment'.

@JaniieJones You left that same link earlier. :) We discussed it.

How are you coping with menopause yourself?
Are you coming at it from a natural and lifestyle angle? Is it working for you?

It's a mistake to think that all private drs just take £300 and hand out HRT. Many have all kinds of other ideas and information around how to alleviate symptoms, far more than GPs. Most will suggest all the things you are, first, before HRT. Many are also up to date on supplements and herbal stuff- what works and what doesn't.

You seem very interested in the dementia risk. If you would like to go to the Sage Journal, online, there is a very detailed paper by the BMS on hrt and cognition. It discusses ALL research and comes up with the conclusion I left.

Did you watch the Davina programme on menopause?

The Dr- Michael Craig- gave an interesting interview on the role of estrogen on cognition. He's NHS and very well qualified. Ok, he's just one dr but his ideas support the role of estrogen in cognition.

www.slam.nhs.uk/national-services/our-experts/dr-michael-craig/