Estrogel and Utrogestan

[DeeleysMum]

Help! Ive been taking Estrogel and Utrogestan for 7 months almost and I still feel shocking. My GP advised me to up my pumps from two per day to four and to use the Utrogestan vaginally to avoid a reaction (i get v depressed using it orally). Ive been doing this combo and now been told by the gp to have ten days off the Utro and 15 days on. Im still feeling shocking. I paid to have a Zoom call with a specialist who was about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Ive had more blood tests to check my oestrogen levels, I had previous tests to check my testosterone (which was very low but tolerable). I thought id at least be feeling better 7 months in but the ability to get through the day without taking a nap has gone, not good when I work full time running my own business and have two kids under 12. Please help.

Poor you, it doesn’t sound as though the regime is helping you at all. I am new to HRT but do think that you should have seen an improvement by now.

I started the same plan as you in February and feel better already, touch wood it stays that way! I do need a nap sometimes when on my period but otherwise have a lot more energy than before. I run my own business but dc are teenagers so don’t need so much support or supervision.

I went through a private clinic and was very impressed with the doctor. What happened with your private appt, what was wrong?

Not surprised you feel shocking on that amount of Utrogestan.

1 The dose is 200mgs x 12 days in a calendar month ( women who find they get side effects on 12 days can under specialist supervision use 10 days and some even use 7.) The leaflet does say every 28 days but other specialists say 12 days at the start of each month or the last 12 days of each month.

2 Using it vaginally increases the absorption. Dr Louise Newson says 100mgs is enough vaginally .(You may know her as a specialist meno GP - google for info).

Basically, you are on far too much.

Is your specialist one on the list of the BMS website?

@JinglingHellsBells

Not surprised you feel shocking on that amount of Utrogestan.

1 The dose is 200mgs x 12 days in a calendar month ( women who find they get side effects on 12 days can under specialist supervision use 10 days and some even use 7.) The leaflet does say every 28 days but other specialists say 12 days at the start of each month or the last 12 days of each month.

2 Using it vaginally increases the absorption. Dr Louise Newson says 100mgs is enough vaginally .(You may know her as a specialist meno GP - google for info).

Basically, you are on far too much.

Is your specialist one on the list of the BMS website?

They GP started me with 25 days on orally and 3 days off. Then switched me to vaginally with no break at the advise or Dr Newson (she's a friend of my GP). Then my GP switched me to 10 days off and 15 on vaginally so I'm all over the place. The meno specialist Health and Her Clinic didn't advise any different (not on BMS website that I can see), so I'm still none the wiser. They advised me to have another blood test to check my oestrogen levels which I did on Monday and yesterday I got two messages from my surgery, one asking me to speak to a GP and one asking me to re take the test as there were concerns. Im so pissed off as thats another week or so before I can get another blood test which means another two weeks of filing awful. I think I actually feel worse now than I did prior to HRT. All I wanted it for was to give me a pick me up and some libido and its done the total opposite. Ive just had a whole month of terrible insomnia where I've managed about 2-3 hours a night, this can't be right. ☹️.

@HelloDaisy

Poor you, it doesn’t sound as though the regime is helping you at all. I am new to HRT but do think that you should have seen an improvement by now.

I started the same plan as you in February and feel better already, touch wood it stays that way! I do need a nap sometimes when on my period but otherwise have a lot more energy than before. I run my own business but dc are teenagers so don’t need so much support or supervision.

I went through a private clinic and was very impressed with the doctor. What happened with your private appt, what was wrong?

I wanted to use HRT originally to give me a bit of a boost and to give me some libido back, I found I couldn't get through the day without a nap and initially I had some more energy but since then its gone down hill. The fatigue is crushing and I feel so unrested all the time and on edge. I know running a business is exhausting, cleaning business too so im always busy and my kids are young ish but I could cope only a few years ago, and they were younger then.

The meno doc didn't really seem to listen to what I was saying to her. I wanted her to advise me on how best to use the Utrogestan and to explain what's happened with my periods, as they were erratic but still present and since taking the utrogestan constantly they stopped, and now im getting spotting again with cramps. I got back in touch with them but have had no response back from them, which i'm not happy about. I'd love to go to Dr Newson but £280 for a consultation will break the bank at the mo.

Are you certain how you're feeling is related to your hormones, @DeeleysMum? Have you had a general health screening - iron levels, thyroid function etc.?

I'm on two pumps of oestrogen a day, 200mg Utrogestan on days 15-26, and one pump of tostran gel every other day. And I do it all at night - theory being, it will be taking effect by the time I get up. I feel pretty good on this regime - and I've tried tablets, patches, everything. However it took months to feel better - probably four or five.

Although . . . come to think of it, I've not had a proper period for a few months. Just a bit of spotting. Wonder if that's something to be concerned about . . . I'm 41 with premature ovarian failure.

@RedPandaFluff

Are you certain how you're feeling is related to your hormones, *@DeeleysMum*? Have you had a general health screening - iron levels, thyroid function etc.?

I'm on two pumps of oestrogen a day, 200mg Utrogestan on days 15-26, and one pump of tostran gel every other day. And I do it all at night - theory being, it will be taking effect by the time I get up. I feel pretty good on this regime - and I've tried tablets, patches, everything. However it took months to feel better - probably four or five.

Its funny you mention thyroid as ive just been recalled to have another blood test, which I had yesterday. The GP said my thyroid level is slightly raised which could be a pre curser to thyroid issues. Im at the point where I'm hoping they find something just so they can deal with it and make me feel better. Did you get the Tostran through private GP if you're in the UK?

Sorry you're feeling so awful. I would also ask to check other levels particularly thyroid which can play havoc with your moods. All the HRT in the world won't help with that. Also B12 and iron could be having an effect.

@DeeleysMum How much are you using? It's not clear from your first post.

Are you using 200mgs ( 2 capsules) each time or just one?

I've used this regime for years under a top meno consultant (he is regarded as the top expert by Dr Newson and more qualified!)

25 days per month of ONE capsule is fine if you are post menopause and this is a continuous regime you are on (with no break for a period.) Post meno= no period for 12 months or over age 54 with occasional periods.

As you say you are still having periods, you should only be using it for part of each month. Your GP has given you the incorrect dose.

The dose for women with periods is 12 days per month. Start of the 1st of each month and keep going with that, OR start on the 15th of each month. You can actually start on any day but just stick to that day each month . So if you started today, you would take the next 12 days from 16 May.

About 3 days after you take the last capsule, you might get a small bleed. This is not your own period, it's a withdrawal bleed to clear the lining. It may not happen each month.

I'd get this regime started and give it 3 months to see if you feel better.

There is also no point having blood tests for your hormones as these will be all over the place while you use hrt. eg if your body has absorbed a lot of estrogen one day, levels will be high, if not, they will be different the next day.

My GP has given me utrogestan vaginally as 200mg capsules - I took the first one last night but not sure if I need to contact them to change the dose - is it too much ? They are not very switched on to be honest !

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@DeeleysMum How much are you using? It's not clear from your first post.

Are you using 200mgs ( 2 capsules) each time or just one?

I've used this regime for years under a top meno consultant (he is regarded as the top expert by Dr Newson and more qualified!)

25 days per month of ONE capsule is fine if you are post menopause and this is a continuous regime you are on (with no break for a period.) Post meno= no period for 12 months or over age 54 with occasional periods.

As you say you are still having periods, you should only be using it for part of each month. Your GP has given you the incorrect dose.

The dose for women with periods is 12 days per month. Start of the 1st of each month and keep going with that, OR start on the 15th of each month. You can actually start on any day but just stick to that day each month . So if you started today, you would take the next 12 days from 16 May.

About 3 days after you take the last capsule, you might get a small bleed. This is not your own period, it's a withdrawal bleed to clear the lining. It may not happen each month.

I'd get this regime started and give it 3 months to see if you feel better.[/quote]
@JinglingHellsBells

I started taking one 100mg of utrogestan per day for 25 days, with a 3 day break. Then doc (after speaking with Dr Louise) told me to take it vaginally without a break, then after a horrendous bout of insomnia he told me to take it for 15 days and break for 10. I do this with what started out as two pumps of gel, but am now up to 4. I feel as though every one I speak to is clutching at straws. Im just waiting on blood results for the thyroid function now as apparently I am absorbing the Estrogel. My GP never asked me to start off with if I was still having periods 🤔. I was but very sporadic, then after taking the utrogestan they stopped. Now I'm back on a different regime I'm having a breakthrough bleed. Im just utterly confused.

@applebobber. it's exhausting isn't it? GP's aren't switched on at all. One particular GP at my surgery told me after months nd months of horrendous night sweats in my late forties that I was way too young to be going through meno. Another asked me when I wanted help 'aww are you having lots of hot flushes?' So uninformed. Hope you get some help.

@DeeleysMum Half these GPs ought not to be treating women!

FGS- the instructions for Utrogestan are on the leaflet in the box!
It makes it clear that there are 2 ways of using it.
It beggars belief that a GP doesn't understand the simplest ways of using HRT

women in peri
women post menopause

and that the amount of progesterone is different.

This is really really basic knowledge and if they are prescribing hrt to other women, how often are they getting it wrong?

It's not complicated.

The way to use it as I've posted. 12 days per month - 200mgs ( 2 capsules each day.)

Use at night,vaginally.

I find it hard to believe they took advice from Dr Newson and if they did, they must have misunderstood. I'm pretty sure the dosing info in on her website anyway, as part of her many fact sheets.

Using Utrogestan daily as you were will stop your periods - or it may leave you with a tiny bleed on the days you stop it.

You are bleeding now as you have changed to a different regime.

Just start the new regime as described.

I use utrogestan for the 25 days each month. When prescribed it I had had only 2 periods in the last 12 months but hadn't had a full 12 months without one.

How can you tell if you're using hrt when you have gone through menopause? As the usual 12 months without a period won't apply.

I'm not sure if I've gone through it or not

Im going to give it a go in the way you suggest and see if it makes a difference. Im astounded that the GP seems to be clutching at straws. So please clarify, 12 days on 12 days off, 200mg. Im in peri as up till I was taking it constantly, my periods hadn't yet stopped. Is this right? Im loather to speak to my GP again as he just insists ive got low mood and need to think about anti depressants. Im not depressed, im pissued off at feeling crap and exhausted.

@DeeleysMum No it's not 12 days on and 12 days off. It's 12 days per monthly cycle. So, on 1st May you would take 12 days then start the next 12 days on the 1st June. The leaflet says every 28-day cycle but an extra 2 days per month doesn't really matter. I was advised by my consultant that on a monthly regime, choose the same day each month- so maybe the 1st, or the 15th. (I use it differently but that's been agreed with my dr- I take it only every 6 weeks.)

If you started Utro today, your next 12 days would be the 19 May.

@JinglingHellsBells. I get you. Ill make some notes in my diary (brain fog 😴). Thanks for your help.

Hello mumsmet.
I new to these forums. I would be grateful for somw advice. I haven’t had a period for two years. Definitely post menopause. I hit rock bottom with Depression. Went to doctors suggested hrt. Given femseven conti. Have had side effects. Been on it just over a week. What I am concerned about is the amount of abdominal pain I am in. I can tolerate pain but this is unbearable. I would be grateful for advice and is this normal. Thank you

@SJCoxon

Hello mumsmet. I new to these forums. I would be grateful for somw advice. I haven’t had a period for two years. Definitely post menopause. I hit rock bottom with Depression. Went to doctors suggested hrt. Given femseven conti. Have had side effects. Been on it just over a week. What I am concerned about is the amount of abdominal pain I am in. I can tolerate pain but this is unbearable. I would be grateful for advice and is this normal. Thank you

I think unbearable abdominal pain should be looked at, see a doctor asap. Is femseven conti a patch? I have used patches and not experienced pain. Hope you get it sorted.

Thank you for your reply from seven conti is a patch. I just wonder as I have been period free for two years, the hormones going back into my system it’s a shock to the system xx

@SJCoxon

Hello mumsmet. I new to these forums. I would be grateful for somw advice. I haven’t had a period for two years. Definitely post menopause. I hit rock bottom with Depression. Went to doctors suggested hrt. Given femseven conti. Have had side effects. Been on it just over a week. What I am concerned about is the amount of abdominal pain I am in. I can tolerate pain but this is unbearable. I would be grateful for advice and is this normal. Thank you

@SJCoxon I had the exact same on this combi so was advised to come off it. I now take what they class as the 'gold standard' of HRT with my current combination. It gives me little side effects, I think I just need to adjust my dosage to get the full benefit. Trans dermal is also the safest option in terms of risk. You can ask your GP to put you on it. x

Thank you for your reply. I will give it another few days. If the pain carries on, I will be contact my GP. Just goes to show, how depleted my hormones were. 😊

What is the gold standard plse.