Husband seeking insights into the menopause

[Perichoresis]

Good afternoon.

I fully realise it might come across badly for a man to be posting in this forum on this subject. I can assure you my intentions are honest, and I am simply seeking some help..

All I can say, is that I've struggled to find a constructive way forward with my wife in regard to her menopause, but it's become increasingly difficult. She simply doesn't want to talk about it with me anymore, and I totally respect that.

My goal in coming on here was to be able to chat in an informal and anonymous context, in the hope it'd give me some insights I'd otherwise never be able to get.

My wife's menopause started in earnest four years ago, and without resorting to hyperbole, it's fair to say it has ravaged her. She has suffered crippling headaches, increased pain and flow during her periods, a hatred of her body, removal of all libido, and a crushing sense that it'll never go away.

She's often exhausted and exasperated with the whole experience, and quite rightly says I have no way of relating to what she's going through.

My question is this - if you're a woman who has experienced, or is currently experiencing, menopause - what would you like to say to a man in order to help him understand what you're going through?

Further, are there any big 'dos and don'ts' you'd want to tell him, in terms of what he says and does? Is there any advice you'd like to give, so he can better support and stand with you?

As I said at the beginning, I fully understand that what I am asking might be construed negatively, but I am desperate to not cause my wife any more pain than she's already suffering, and sometimes I seem to do that without realising why.

This is utterly heart-breaking, and so, in a spirit of mutual understanding and support, can any of you please help me?

Thank you, in advance, for anything you might be able to offer - I am all ears...

Being really blunt (and we only have your side here) I think I would encourage your wife to seek medical help and consider HRT. If she is not taking any responsibility for her health other than 'moaning' and accepting the symptoms of menopause, she is suffering unnecessarily for a start, and also jeopardising your marriage.

There is MASSES, literally masses, of information out there now to help women. There are podcasts on Liz Earle Wellbing site, where she interviews top UK meno specialists, there is an App available by Dr Louise Newson (free) called Balance, which ties in with her website full of information (My Menopause Dr) , there is a great book entitled Your Change Your Choice by a top meno consultant, and more.

Really, she is being selfish if this is impacting on your marriage and she is not doing anything to help herself.

She may be one of women who believe HRT is unsafe, and not up to date with the real facts re its safety. All the above sites I've suggested will help her understand.

If you were a woman coming along here and complaining your H had erectile dysfunction or another health condition that was destroying your marriage, yet they would do nothing to try to change it (by seeking medical help) I think the advice would be LTB ( Leave The Bastard.)

First you need to have a serious conversation with her and even show her your post here.

Thanks for the response JinglingHellsBells.

I guess that given the information I shared, this is an entirely reasonable response. It's difficult to impart all the relevant contextual-content, without writing a novel.

My wife is medically-trained, and has tried every imaginable treatment, to varying degrees of failure. This has lead us to here, where nothing medicinal is effective.

My post, therefore, was focused on the emotional, spiritual, experiential level of engagement, and I am sorry I didn't express that clearly enough.

My wife is the strongest, brightest, bravest and most capable person I've ever met, and we have an amazingly positive and energizing relationship - in every other regard than this one.

The menopause has all but destroyed the woman I previously knew, and I am looking to get some help with how best to engage with her, support her, and better understand what she is going through.

I've certainly not accused her of 'moaning', but if I inferred this, I apologise. I guess it comes down to the menopause constructing something of an interactional-wall between us, and it has changed my wife's outlook and personality to a degree I'd have thought impossible.

To reiterate: I am simply after some conversational/interactive/relational advice please...

Without knowing all the facts, I find it hard to understand how your wife, regardless of her training (whatever that may be) is not able to find a type of HRT which suits her. That is very unlikely. Many women have to try 3 or 4 types to get success.

Has she ever seen a menopause consultant? because that really is the next step, if she hasn't.

I am a health journalist and speak to all the best drs on this and know a fair bit on it through them and my own research.

If she wants to come along to the forum, be able to describe what she has tried.

Sorry but you can't help her. The way out of this is HRT and finding one that works for her.

This little passage from Robert Webb’s book about PMT struck me as relevant here.

It’s admirable that you want to understand a bit more about what your DW is going through, but how you use that information is key.

She will not want you to mansplain menopause to her, or to knowingly wink and say “oh yes, I understand, you’re cross because of your hormones” etc

You simply need to understand that it’s a frightening time for some women, that the physical, hormonal and emotional aspects of it will be something that even SHE doesn’t fully understand, and that if she’s tried all the available medical options to treat it, the only thing left is time.

After this period of her life is over, she may never be the same woman you met and married, she may have fundamentally changed as person. Her sex drive will almost certainly never go back to the same place, as she won’t have the hormonal driver to procreate. That’s not to say she won’t want the other aspects of it, but on a purely animal level, things will be different.

It’s often a time when women start to put themselves first for the first time in their life, having spent their child rearing years putting themselves last, so it may be that she’s going to need you to adjust to a new normal too.

Whatever the outcome, you both need to be able to communicate clearly and effectively with each other. We can’t give you any answers and it may be that she can’t either, but if you love her, and want to grow old together, you both need to find a new normal.

Honestly, I think it's impossible to explain it so that a man can understand.
Even women who have had an easy menopause don't seem to understand how difficult it can be for some of us.
Literally everything changes - our bodies, our brains, our emotions and then add on the crushing anxiety that pervades everything - it's literally life changing, and not in a good way.
She's finding her way through this and needs your understanding that her whole world has changed.

I can't help- I've thankfully got a few years before I need to worry about this, hopefully.

But when I do, I hope my partner is as thoughtful as you OP, taking my thoughts feelings and emotions into consideration and trying to help, rather than moan about who I've become and threaten to leave.

Even with HRT my menopause drove me to the point of insanity and the only way I wanted to communicate with my husband was with a large carving knife. We ended up getting divorced. I could not stand the sight of him and didn't think the menopause could cause such catastrophic change in all areas of my life. Personally I needed to be left alone. It took me a long time to find HRT that made me feel human again. Has your wife tried HRT because if she wont she'll probably be like this for the next 10 years. I'd encourage her to go to a menopause specialist.

Has she tried acupuncture with an actual experienced acupuncturist? (ie not a doctor whose ‘done a course’). Look at reviews and go for one who specialises in women’s health and has a good track record (there is only one professional body so you know they are qualified etc).

Costs £50 a go up our way. Changed my life. She may have to go once a week for a while, then monthly. It can do stuff western medicine can’t and brought me the same relief I’d have had with hrt (I didn’t want to take that).

It takes away brain fog, general pains, water retention, regulates shortens and lightens periods. Gives energy and makes you feel a human being again.

So if you really want to help, get your wallet out and prepare to give her a few hundred quid to try it. That should get her well on her way back to normality from the madness of meno. It doesn’t happen overnight but it’s such a godsend to me.

@JinglingHellsBells

Sorry but you can't help her. The way out of this is HRT and finding one that works for her.

After my wife's breast-cancer, she isn't allowed to take any hormone-treatments.

I really feel for both your wife and for you.

I used to roll my eyes when I saw women fanning themselves with bits of paper, menus etc. When I started with night sweats and constant flushes throughout the day I realised just how the menopause can totally mess up the quality of your life.

I went on HRT but that isn’t an option for your wife. I don’t agree theres a perfect type of HRT for each women either after the one i took with no problem stopped being manufactured. Since then every one (I’m up to the fifth one now) has caused bleeds and severe pmt symptoms. I’m waiting for an appointment at a menopause clinic at the moment.

It must be so hard to support your wife through this. All I can advise is to follow her lead and acknowledge what she is going through is awful and don’t try to come up with solutions.

@Elieza

Has she tried acupuncture with an actual experienced acupuncturist? (ie not a doctor whose ‘done a course’). Look at reviews and go for one who specialises in women’s health and has a good track record (there is only one professional body so you know they are qualified etc).

Costs £50 a go up our way. Changed my life. She may have to go once a week for a while, then monthly. It can do stuff western medicine can’t and brought me the same relief I’d have had with hrt (I didn’t want to take that).

It takes away brain fog, general pains, water retention, regulates shortens and lightens periods. Gives energy and makes you feel a human being again.

So if you really want to help, get your wallet out and prepare to give her a few hundred quid to try it. That should get her well on her way back to normality from the madness of meno. It doesn’t happen overnight but it’s such a godsend to me.

Thank you for your constructive response.

My wife is currently Googling local acupuncturists, and really wants to give it a try...

I think people who sale through the menopause or find hrt that suits them without the pain off trying different ones only to go on to the next one worse than the first one. These woman are extremely very lucky, and haven’t a clue or have forgotten what other women who can’t take hrt for any reason go through. Some women have bad memories, or are selfish.
The saying “I’m all right jack” pops to mind

I literally had a nervous breakdown, not even realising it was maybe menopause related to years later.

I’m post menopause now, 8 years + and still have anxiety aches sweats insomnia
I stupidly thought once you went through it, after there were no more symptoms
Ha ha what a bloody idiot I am, if only

After my wife's breast-cancer, she isn't allowed to take any hormone-treatments.

Ah. I assumed when you said she had tried all kinds of medication that she had.

I still suggest she sees a menopause specialist as they are the best people to advise on what she can use, having had BC.

Just for general info, it's not black and white re HRT and previous cancer. One of the most eminent breast specialists in the world ( from the UK) prescribes for women who have had BC as he believes the risk is minimal if it exists at all. Medicine has moved on...

She needs to see a specialist in my opinion to discuss all options including complementary treatment.

Out of interest, why won't she come to this site herself?

Get her to read
menopause matters forum

It’s not all about those that take hrt,

Rather than reading anecdotal accounts on a forum, if your wife is really interested and motivated to tackle this, I can give you the names of at least three menopause experts (in London) who would see her privately and who are all world experts in treating women like her. They would discuss whether low dose HRT was in fact possible (as i said, it's not black and white by any means) BUT they would also offer their advice on other treatments, either drugs or lifestyle/ complementary or a combo of both.

For someone where their symptoms are so severe, a forum is not the best place- you need to point her in the direction of medical experts.

@JinglingHellsBells

After my wife's breast-cancer, she isn't allowed to take any hormone-treatments.

Ah. I assumed when you said she had tried all kinds of medication that she had.

I still suggest she sees a menopause specialist as they are the best people to advise on what she can use, having had BC.

Just for general info, it's not black and white re HRT and previous cancer. One of the most eminent breast specialists in the world ( from the UK) prescribes for women who have had BC as he believes the risk is minimal if it exists at all. Medicine has moved on...

She needs to see a specialist in my opinion to discuss all options including complementary treatment.

Out of interest, why won't she come to this site herself?

My wife won't come to the site, as she used to be a member, but cancelled her account, having found it frustrating.

I asked her why, and she said (and I quote...), "It's full of Karens who want to enforce their half-baked ideas, without taking account of context and nuance..."

I pushed her further, and she said, "For example, loads of people give advice on menopause without having been through it, and they're worse than useless."

Emotionally, one of the things I found difficult about menopause was the whole cliche of becoming the invisible old woman. Media depicts the idea of sexually active older women as either comedy gold or disgusting. My dh telling me he still found me attractive was helpful not that I wanted to shag him much of the time

My solution was HRT, but I see upthread that your wife can't take that because of previous breast cancer.

For me, a big part of the symptoms were knock-on effects of disturbed sleep. So think through your sleeping arrangements. King size bed with separate single duvets (normal man/pre-menopausal woman tog on your side, maximum of 4 in winter for your wife's). Think about wool duvets (and maybe a wool blanket under the sheet - sounds counter-intuitive but will actually help). Layering is her friend - until I got rid of the duvet entirely I struggled with getting too cold - it would go hot sweat, throw the duvet off - too cold, wake up, pull it back on - hot sweat, throw the duvet off on a roughly 1.5 hour cycle, too short to get a decent amount of sleep.

What I find works is several blankets. Bed at 11. Hot sweat (damped a lot by HRT) about 2.00am - throw a blanket off, but leave the other in place. Get a bit chilly round about 6.00am, pull blanket back on. Up for work about 7.30. This gives me sleep in long enough chunks that I feel rested, and I can now more-or-less go through this routine without waking fully.

For me, it was a kaleidoscope of several things whirling at once if you like. A doesn't necessarily cause B but makes it worse and means C is also difficult to handle.

So my working memory which had always been pretty good, deteriorated, I lay awake for hours in the middle of the night and then couldn't get up in the morning and would struggle to stay awake in the afternoons. I found my usual work got on top of me and my confidence evaporated. I put on weight and found it hard to shift as I was too tired to exercise and became prone to comfort eating.

Against this background, my elderly parent's health was deteriorating and I was struggling to deal with the impact of that, I had a ridiculous micro-managing boss and an impossible job and didn't have the headspace or time to find an alternative. I was depressed and anxious and unable to function as "me".

The advice I was given about taking HRT or being more organised wasn't helpful, even if it was well intentioned.

What I needed was a route back to me. Symptoms aside, I had lost who I was.

4 years on I'm still a work in progress, but have moved forward. Exercise and counselling have helped, eating better has made me less sluggish and my weight is stable. I also didn't take HRT though I tried black cohosh and take vit D, K and a multivitamin.

The night sweats I manage with less bedding & fans and I listen to a lot of audiobooks when I can't sleep. I try to get to bed earlier so that I'm less tired and able to get through the day.

I've accepted that my memory isn't as good, but take comfort from the breadth of my experience which I can still apply. I can't remember the names of research studies but can mostly recall the outcomes. The internet is my friend.

This has turned into a bit of an essay, so I suppose what I am trying to say is that I what needed most from DH was to continue to value & support me. Not to treat me as something that needed to be fixed.

she said, "For example, loads of people give advice on menopause without having been through it, and they're worse than useless."

Well, I've never seen that here. There may be one or two, but on the whole, most women on this forum are either in peri menopause or post menopause.

You might like to refer her to website of Liz Earle Wellbeing. There are some great podcasts there on menopause and HRT with input from menopause specialists. There is also a very detailed interview with Kirsty Walk who like your wife had BC and has now gone onto HRT as she was unable to function otherwise. Not saying that is the answer for your wife, but it's interesting in itself to listen to.

My wife is medically-trained, and has tried every imaginable treatment, to varying degrees of failure. This has lead us to here, where nothing medicinal is effective.

Has she seen menopause specialists?

Is she finding it all as intolerable as you, or has she given up trying to seek help?

Any meno expert will go through all the other stuff people here are mentioning- so that's acupuncture, mindfulness, yoga, Chinese medicine etc etc.

Will she not consider seeing someone?

I am in peri menopause. Most of the physical symptoms I have had are mild or not really annoying. The utterly drenching night sweats from time to time were the worst and obviously disrupted me sleep.

The creeping mental symptoms were by far the worst for me. Just gradually getting more and more down and irritable. Because the process was so gradual I didn't really notice it at first and certainly did not take it as menopause-related.

Lockdown brought everything to a head. I would find myself bursting into tears at nothing, or flying into a rage. I would happily have killed my husband most days and he was doing nothing wrong. Just bracing himself for whatever virago I might be on a particular day. I was really unpleasant, and not "me" at all.

I am on month 2 of HRT and it is like a veil has lifted. My husband calls them my happy pills.

Now, I totally hear what you say about your wife's breast cancer and the dangers of taking HRT - but what about quality of life? My doctor commented that menopause does not just "go away". We live with a chronic oestrogen shortage, which affects pretty much all the cells in our bodies for the rest of our lives. Some people adapt to a "new normal' with relative ease. Some don't. Maybe there are some forms of HRT that are worth a try, with more frequent monitoring?

In terms of what my husband could do/have done? Well, he honestly did the best he could have done by putting up and shutting up, but taking an interest if I did want to speak about the issues. If he had tried to railroad me to a doctor or a therapist or whatever I would not have been pleased. If he had Googled and made suggestions I would also not have been pleased (although that is me and he knows me well enough to know that). When I suggested seeing a doctor privately to see if I could get HRT sorted he was delighted, drove me to the appointment and paid. He has asked a couple of times how I am getting on with the pills, but really the good results in my mental state are plain to see.

I hope your wife feels better soon.

OP that’s great your wife is considering acupuncture.

It’s good there is only one professional body so you don’t need multiple websites.

Like all things in life; hairdressers, joiners, cooks, there are good ones and not so good ones. All qualified. Just some better than others!

Hence try and check out reviews or phone and ask them themselves what results they have had with menopausal patients.

Mine is near Glasgow.

I went to her as she’s a nutritionist, counsellor and acupuncturist. So she gets the full picture of all my mind and body problems and recommends dietary choices I can consider to support me at my age.

I take it that Glasgows no use to you?

@Perichoresis Apologies for quoting the wrong Kirsty! (Snr moment there.) It's Kirsty Lang who has gone back to HRT after breast cancer and there are several articles online and interviews with her on that.

Anyway, it would be great if your wife could pop onto your thread- she's clearly 'listening' and invested in what you are doing as no sooner had someone suggested acupuncture than you report she's off to Google it.

And you've quoted word for word why she closed her account before (the 'Karen' quote) so she must be aware you're posting.

I'm not really sure what you want from your post even though you've articulated your concerns so well. You sound very caring, so maybe while she is having such a rough time, the best you can do is help her at home by taking the load if she's tired and generally being supportive.

And, as I said before, there are specialists out there who could help her as she has mix of physical and emotional symptoms. Heavy periods can be helped in ways other than drugs but she needs to fill in the finer details of what she's tried.

Is she interested in names of experts?

I too have never seen much in the way of ill-informed opinions on the menopause on here. Quite the opposite in fact. Your wife's incredibly dismissive and sexist view of so-called 'karens' is not one I recognise.

I found this incredibly useful.

www.victoriahealth.com/editorial/takeaway-tips-from-shabir-and-trinnys-menopause-facebook-live