Night sweats help please. Black cohosh or HRT?

[mrsjackrussell]

I think I'm definitely going through the menopause now. I'm 50.
For the last 3 years iv had irregular periods and night sweats so I then take black cohosh and it all goes back to normal then I stop taking it and within a few months it all starts up again. Apart from 4 months last year when I wasn't taking it and I had non stop bleeding for 4 months. Had a scan all OK. I don't know whether the cohosh actually worked or if it was just coincidence.
Forward to now and no period since October.
I'm having night sweats and it's affecting my sleep badly and in turn my life.
I'm disabled too and get horrendous cramps and what with my husband snoring.
I'm thinking about taking the black cohosh again but I'm worried about the side effects re. Liver damage. Iv been put off HRT by others saying its not good to mess with your body which I agree with to some extent. Also with the HRT would I then have to stop it again in the future or is it for life?
Would all of the menopausal symptoms come back?
Coul d I have some advice please from you lovely people

I live in a rural area. Not sure what that's got to do with it.

I live in a rural area. Not sure what that's got to do with it.

Wow! I must be making it up then because Faz says so . There's only one GP out here in this area, he refuses to refer on or prescribe and I can't afford a private consultant. There's no family planning or sexual health clinic out here, the nearest ones cost at least a tenner to get to plus an 8-mile walk. I've got a disabled child I have no childcare for, but hey according to Faz it's my fault.

Way to go!

Glad it worked for you, Faz, but it's pretty fucking rude of you to scold and criticise or generalise for other women (it's a middle class thing, gah, what a shit thing to say) just because things worked out of you and you had an understanding GP. It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination and thought to realise the reason so many use such consultants is because they haven't had their needs met by the NHS, not because they're middle class . What a sneery, snobby post.

@ASurfeitOfDuncans

It ought to be easy in theory to address this with your GP for the following reasons:

1. Heart disease in the family (whatever that amounts to) is not a reason to withhold HRT.

(I posted a link to a doc in this thread- by Dr N- which states [fact] that women using HRT have a 50% reduction in heart disease.) This is shown in various research trials and is information available on the web if you put in the right search words ( ie heart disease/ risks/ HRT/ reduction...)

You could easily take this information to your GP who is way out of date! he's working from the WHI trials in 20 years ago, which @Bellaciao mentioned (they have since been discredited and again you can find supporting evidence online.)

There are also numerous guides from specialists in menopause written for drs - including those by the BMS and NICE - which state the risks- 'heart disease in family' is not there.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/clinical-specialties/womens-health/nice-urges-gps-to-overcome-reluctance-to-offer-hrt-in-menopausal-women/20030415.article

www.gponline.com/gps-more-confident-prescribing-hrt-menopause-says-nice/womens-health/menopausal-and-hrt/article/1372327

If your GP cannot produce scientific evidence for you to show you, personally, are at risk from HRT, then they are not supposed to withhold it.

Ironically, you are perhaps at MORE risk by not using it.

Not at all snobby! Quite the opposite. I think it's important to know that it is possible to get good quality HRT from your gp for the cost of a prescription. I would imagine seeing a private meno consultant would be expensive and therefore out of the reach of many women who are suffering.

@surfeit, you clearly have a pretty unique set of circumstances. I wouldn't say your experience is at all the norm. I hope you get the help you need.

Oh that is really uncalled for @SurfeitofDuncans.

Faz wasn't saying any of the things you ave just kicked off about!

You said you lived in a rural area=no HRT. How is that supposed to make sense?

You have been very rude though I know you won't want to accept that and will most likely kick off at me now.

I don't think there are 'that many' who use consultants. I do- because I went to them pre menopause for a gynae issue and stayed on with them.

I'm in no way interested in 'kicking off', Jingle. I think it's pretty uncalled for to dismiss people who say they cannot access HRT easily the way Faz did or suggest that women are using menopausal consultants as a status symbol, that's quite sneery and dismissive IMO but upon reading this thread it all seems like it was quite unpleasant for some time so I'll leave the two of you to enjoy what appears to be a cozy tete-a-tete.

So much for being supportive of women going through the change, just a petty lot of arguing and being dismissive and scolding other women.

or suggest that women are using menopausal consultants as a status symbol

Sorry but where has anyone said that? I'm not reading the same thread.

of course you are kicking off- you've done it just now with your sarcy' tete a tete' comment.

I have- if you can't actually see it- spent 10 minutes searching online for YOU to try to help YOU and left links, but for all the thanks I got, why bother?

You clearly have your own issues surfeit and its shame you had to get so aggressive. Hopefully there will be women reading this who find it useful. I apologise if I upset anyone with my middle class comment. There is no doubt that a meno consultant would be expensive though so if someone thinks HRT would help then it's worth at least trying a gp in the first instance.

The issue about the 'middle class status symbol' ... :)

I think @Fazackerly was in fact being 'sneery' about that rather than suggesting or supporting it!

Unfortunately, there has been a surfeit a 'slebs' on TV saying how they get their HRT from private doctors- Mariella and Carol Voderman are two who come to mind. Sadly, this gives women who cannot afford private treatment, the impression that the HRT these slebs get is different and superior to the NHS drugs.

It's not- it's the same products. These are available to all women if suitable. The first step is your GP and if they are intransigent, you are within your rights to question their reasons and remind them of NICE guidelines and guidance from other medical professionals.

The first section of the NICE guidelines states that menopausal treatment is a partnership between dr and patient where the woman's wishes are taken into account.

The dr spells out risks and benefits and the woman makes her choice.

the products prescribed ( apart from testosterone) are available free on NHS

Just a general observation that this isn’t true in England. If you are on two types of HRT you may pay two prescription charges. Not that that would
probably be the main consideration for women suffering from symptoms that can’t be eased any other way.

Yes good point Abra1de

And yes thank you jingling for explaining things better than I ever could :-)

Why on earth should she tell you who employs her? I imagine she writes for lots of people. Quite frankly you are.sounding a bit creepy.

"the products prescribed ( apart from testosterone) are available free on NHS"

Apologies - sloppy writing on my part. I meant that the consultation was free - I do realise that most women have to pay for prescriptions (except for us oldies :) , those who live in Scotland and those on low incomes? ).

Also - I live in a rural area but I did have to consult a private doc to get testosterone prescribed in the first instance - now on NHS, although have always got my basic (bio-identcial) HRT on NHS through local (lovely knowledgeable) GP.

although women sometimes need to push for what they want and are entitled to (re-quote of my post!)

I also realise that treatment for and understanding of menopause and HRT is patchy and nothing to do with whether you are in a rural area or not. However I do strongly believe as @JinglingHellsBells also said that we do need to push and question when we are not treated in the way we should be ie that decisions about our care should be based on our preferences after discussion with our GPs, taking into account (and maybe accepting?) any personal risks to our health.

I am always very conscious of the hundreds of women for whom a private consultation is out of reach hence the value of forums like this and others out there. Nevertheless women who freely share their experiences of their private consultations and the nuances of different HRT and treatment regimes, and the views of their gynaes are doing us all a service.

@medschoolrat Can you tell me why you want to know where my income comes from?

Where does yours come from? Who funds the research you do? Where do they get their income?

I suppose you are trying- as you were with LN- to prove some bias in my writing? It's laughable.
Completely off topic.

If you have anything advice to offer the women here who asked HRT v Black Cohosh- post away. Otherwise.....what are you hoping to do? Smear a medical professional?

I may well tell her to read this thread.

Rat your attitude remends me the behavior of one of the gyns I visited 2 years ago for treating my early meno.
He said to accept my meno, I was only 41, as a natural process and that hrt will give me cancer.
When I told him that there are specialists who don’t agree with it and that early meno is a medical condition that need treatment, he said ‘oh, come on, there are money behind them’.
He said that he will give me hrt only if I write a paper that I won’t accuse him if I will get cancer. I said that he have to write a paper too that I will not get osteoporosis or heart problems without hrt.
Of course I didn’t visit him again but I know that he earns a lot of money for fertility treatments for older women...in that cases of course hormones are too safe and acceptable...
Come on Rat...

I'm trying to get my blood pressure down before trying HRT. I'm taking Sage leaf just now but it's only been a week so haven't seen s huge improvement on night sweats as yet.

Hi JinglingHellsBells would you mind expanding on this slightly alarming statement please - Ironically, you are perhaps at MORE risk by not using it.?

How are those not taking HRT through the menopause at higher risk of heart disease?

@margolovebutter

I don't have time just now to expand on this in detail but if you are interested there is a huge amount online in research papers, about how HRT reduces the thickness of the carotid arterty ( where it gets furred up and can contribute to stroke) .It reduces plaque by 50%. This was shown in a Danish study on 10000s women.

if you google all of that you will see.

There are also numerous statements on how HRT started within 10 years of the last period- they call it the 'window of opportunity' reduces risk of heart disease.

Sorry I can't link to this but I found it through my own personal interest ( gran and my mum's brother died from heart disease) so it's all out there it you dig!

www.bmj.com/press-releases/2012/10/10/hrt-taken-10-years-significantly-reduces-risk-heart-failure-and-heart-atta

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/08/hormone-replacement-therapy-reduces-risk-early-death-new-research/

HRT has lowered my risk of heart disease as I now have enough energy to exercise and lose weight!! Joint aches stopped me exercising regularly for years. I've lost 7lbs in the last 5 months, a stone to go!

The study concluding in 2012 was of just over one thousand women in Denmark, rather than tens of thousands.

There is a more recent study that the NHS refers to: www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/can-hrt-in-early-menopause-cut-heart-disease-risk/ This indicates there may be some very small benefit to arterial walls with other measures of cardiovascular health, like CT scans of artery calcium, abnormal blood vessel narrowing and atherosclerotic plaque formation, NOT differing between placebo and HRT group, irrespective of time since menopause.

I'm not sure it is helpful or totally accurate to say that those who don't take HRT may be at higher risk of cardio vascular disease and could potentially frighten people into taking medication.

I was given HRT patches. Made me agonisingly sleepy. I have MS fatigue problems and don't need any "help " to feel sleepy. The sleepiness stopped as soon as I stopped the HRT.
I'm just kind of soldiering through it because, unlike my Mum and my sister, my menopause symptoms are mild and tolerable. They both had a pretty horrendous time.