HRT advice- am in a panic re Ultrogestan.

[SirVixofVixHall]

I've started taking HRT, after six or seven months without a period. I've been using the oestradiol gel, and now I have to take the progesterone tablets for ten nights. I forgot about having to take them at least two hours after food, and I ate supper really late. I suppose I need to leave it until tomorrow? I'm v anxious about the tablets, partly because they are tablets, rather than transdermal, and partly because I'm frightened of getting dizzyness, and migraines. If you've taken this were you ok on the tablets? is there not a transdermal alternative? I did have natural progesterone cream for a while , from a different clinic, but my Gynae says that it has to be the tablets as the cream can't give a high enough dose?
I'm just having a big wibble- hate tablets, as I've had reactions to things in the past, and I hate feeling dizzy or faint, for similar reasons - I need some HRT hand -holding!

I'm not seeing a GP, am seeing a private gynae who deals with menopause, so he is very experienced and up to date. If this goes on I'll try and book a telephone call with him, I don't see him again until next month. Still feel really green. Could be a bug I suppose but is coinciding with the Ultrogestan. Diarrhoea is listed as a possible side effect, along with nausea, so I'm assuming it is the pills, suppose only time will tell, if it is a bug then hopefully it won't last long. Would using it vaginally make any difference anyway if the issue is the hormone? Or are the side effects mainly to do with taking it orally?

If you want to read the Menopause Matters forum there is a thread there on Utrogestan and gel- and it's about 84 pages long! It might answer more of the questions you have.

The benefits of using it vaginally are :
1 fewer side effects as it's not going into your stomach
2 Less may be needed as it's more effective vaginally according to some research
3 It may be more effective anyway used vaginally.

Hope you feel better soon anyway but as you have a private dr, he's the one to ask. I thought it was from a GP.

Yes they are correct ones and yes you can use them vaginally. Vaginally for me seems to reduce symptoms.

I didn't bother going to my GP , I just went to my friend's man as she is really happy with him. He's in Dorset which is the other side of the country from me, but he knows his stuff and is also easy to talk to and not patronising.
I'll have a look at the menopause forum, thanks for that, but I trust your experience anyway. I just don't want to go off piste without mentioning it to the Doc. Although my gut is really upset and that's making me feel crap, so maybe I'll have to try vaginally anyway as I can't spend days like this, and I've been on the Estradiol so I need to have progesterone now. Maybe it is a bug, but the timing is so suspect.

If the consultant gave you the Utrogestan, I wonder why he didn't mention you could use if vaginally too? Most of them do, that's all.

Hope you feel better!

Thank you. I am huddled on the sofa feeling rubbish. Tummy has calmed down a bit but I still feel slightly gut-crampy and very nauseous. No way could I live feeling like this for a third of the time. I'm scared of taking the pills again at night and feeling like this again tomorrow, but I've had weeks on the oestrogen, so there isn't much choice. Might these symptoms go away?

The only advice I can give you is to try it vaginally tonight, maybe reduce it to 1 capsule to try, and then make up the missing dose later on so you take the same amount but over an extra day.

Hope you feel better soon.

Thank you so much for all the help and support. I have been back to bed for a nap. I feel slightly less green now I've woken up, I had a snack, but can't face supper.

Fingers crossed!

Yes. I'm scared now about tonight's dose, I feel ghastly!

Looking at Menopause Matters I saw that someone had halved the dose when taking it vaginally, as that still triggered a proper bleed. She thought that as so much is lost by it going through the digestive system, that a lower dose is fine when used vaginally.
I don't know what to do tonight. Can't get hold of my doctor, obviously, but really don't want to feel like this tomorrow. I also have lots to do on Monday and today I couldn't leave the house.

So Polly last night I took your advice, and used one capsule vaginally. Today I feel grotty still. Less nauseous, thankfully, but still have terrible diarrhoea. Why does it affect the gut like this? I was fine on the much lower dose of Progesterone cream, apart from initial bladder irritation. I am wondering if this is the sort of thing that settles down or if I will have to stop the HRT? My mother had very bad osteoporosis, so mainly I'm taking it to protect my bones, but I had also been feeling so flat and grumpy, lots of back pain, on and off uncomfortable vagina, on and off hot flushes which were getting worse, not sleeping, brain fog etc. ( Some of which I hadn't associated with menopause until I started the oestrogen and felt so much better). I have young children and so feeling so tired and lacking in enthusiasm all the time wasn't great for them. I'd put most of it down to my thyroid problem rather than falling oestrogen levels.

I'm sorry you feel so awful. You've got a private consultant? You need to go back and talk to him/ her about it all.

Yes, I will do that. I'm going to call his clinic in the morning and hopefully get a 'phone consultation. Any advice on what to do tonight? The full dose vaginally, or try again orally? It is also stressful as obviously I can't rule out a bug, but given the timing and the fact it seems from googling to be an established side effect, I assume it is the progesterone. I could live with just nausea, I had nausea for most of each pregnancy, so I know I can soldier on through it. The gut problems are not something I can live with though.

Advice was to stop the tablets and speak on Thursday. I've still got a very unhappy system , even though the last capsule I used was on Sunday night, 100mg. So perhaps a bug after all? Am not sure how quickly the progesterone leaves the system. I did read somewhere on Menopause Matters, something about progesterone pushing oestrogen out of the system, and oestrogen affecting gut motility, but I can't find it again. Does that make sense to anyone?!?

I think it was good advice to stop it. You won't come to any harm having an extended first cycle.

The thing about progesterone 'pushing estrogen out of the system'- hmm that's not exactly scientific! Sometimes posts on forums end up a bit like Chinese whispers.

I think what that person meant was that estrogen's effect on the uterus is diminished when taking progestoerone, as I explained before (maybe in another thread.) Progesterone changes how the endometrium responds to estrogen. It stops it going into a 'growth' phase ( called secretory, I think.)

So it doesn't mean estrogen has no effect on the body overall, more that it affects the endometrium.

Progesterone can also raise body temp(in fertile women not jusT HRT) so some people find they feel hotter when using it, so if they use gel they may increase it slightly for those progesterone days.

After 2-3 days it ought to have left your system pretty much. I think my non medical advice would be to leave off it for 2 weeks and start a new cycle then, or even wait to 1st March and try again. Then you will see if there is a pattern, but dont go anticipating problems- the mind is a very powerful organ!

Yes, I am hoping to try again soon and that this is a bug. I'm still unwell and I don't feel great, it isn't just a dicky gut, I actually feel rough too. I have chickens so i could have picked up salmonella I suppose. Initially I assumed it was the Ultro as it is listed as a possible side effect, but I haven't had any since Sunday night and I'm not any better so maybe it is an annoying coincidence.

Perhaps.
BTW did you see my PM? No need to answer on the forum as it's confidential in a way but wondered if you'd spotted it?

Oh no, I hadn't noticed, I'll go and read it now.

Got your PM and replied

Hi . New to the site after reading it for many months . I’ve got to have an input as you all seem so helpful . I looked up utrogestan and ended up here ! Ive been on oestrogel 4 pumps a day and progesterone for 10 days each month for about 6 months . I’m 47 . I’m going to try them vaginally to see if it helps with bloating . I didn’t know you could do it this way . I like the sleepy effect they give but the bloating is not good . Anyway waffling ...... back to why I’m here . Hrt and hair loss ??? Any connection every post I read says it’s meant to help ?? I’m sure mine is worse since been on it ?? The hrt has definitely eased thes aches and pains and moods and craziness but this blooming hair loss and dry skin is awful . Im thinking of going back to gp as I’m convinced (well today I am ) that it’s thyroid. Maybe my Peri symptoms were thyroid? never had hot flashes or sweats . Period still regular Ish . Anyway back to utrogestan could this be causing hair loss and dry skiin or should I go with Instinct and push for another blood test . Urghh feel better just getting this out !!!

Slate12, i am on 3 pumps with Utrogestan taken vaginally, loving the progesterone, as you say it is very relaxing and i always sleep super well with it, when i started HRT back in July, after a few weeks k started to llse my hair quite badly, was panicking, my menopause lady advised me to stick with it, not to be scared, that the new supplementarion of hormones did cause this initially, so i trusted her and stuck with it and after 3 months my hair stopped falling and now it is growing and thickening like mad, so i am glad i waited, anyway you should wait at least 3 months for everything to change/settle/improve. Don't give up just yet ! I know it's scary. As for the itching, is it itching down below ? Is it itchy skin all over the body ? I started a thread on it a couple of weeks ago, someone suggested to me Utrogestan might be at fault but nevertheless i had a chat with menopause lady and she told me this sounds very much like a very well known symptom of perimenopause called Formication and HRT doesn't necessarily stop it.

That’s good to hear discoisabelle . I’ll look up the itching thread. My itching all over, the creepy crawly type itching etc has stopped. The itching I have now is just my scalp and eyelids . it’s like a numbness it’s hard to explain. Hopefully then it’ll sort itself out . I’m trying to not worry as stressing doesn’t help but it’s literally all I think about . I’m googling 24/7 so was so chuffed when you replied with an answer I wanted to hear . Thank you so much. I reckon I had 99 symptoms of peri I could write a book. Hrt has stopped nearly all of them .

Oh forgot the vaginal dryness thing didn’t go away so was given Ovestin for that two weeks ago and so far so good 👌

Slatey12, itching is all over my body too, hate it too, started back in November and i think it is slightly less but night time is still bothersome, i give myself scratches, like you i have searched online non stop and it all comes back to Formication, menopause lady confirmed it too, i know we don't have a disease and your eyelids are typical too, oily creams are not good, water based moisturisers are the way to go to keep the skin hydrated, i use Aveeno (blue bottle), my skin is not parched anymore, just itchy, also Ovestin is brilliant for your bits, i use it along with Vagifem and it's all happy down there ! I also have experienced lots of meno symptoms, however after all this, i know that HRT is keeping my mental state completely stable as this was the worse thing, with a good state of mind and even moods i am able to bear (with a smile!) all the negative symptoms.