Menopause without HRT?

[twoheaped]

Is it possible to go through the menopause without HRT?

I have never taken the contraceptive pill, or used a chemical device as I just didn't really fancy the idea of taking hormones.
Now I guess the menopause will be coming in the next few years and I have found little information on going it alone, as such.
Can it be done? I'm still not keen on the thought of taking hormones.

VA! I didn't know what it was but having googled it I'm certainly experiencing it. Being celibate and having only had c-sections hasn't helped by all accounts. It's awful, by far away one of the most physically uncomfortable symptoms.

User......2153 I had 3 9lb vaginal births and have bad VA.

This is very useful for me. I am on long-term GnRH drugs for endometriosis and effectively had a slightly early menopause at 44. The first three months were horrendous - sweats, brain fog, exhaustion, no relief in pain, but I stuck with it and everything got so much better. I didn't want to take HRT because oestrogen is what feeds the endometriosis. Some people have a little 'add back' HRT but I managed without. I know it's very different to a natural menopause - more of an initial shock but once everything is switched off that's it until I stop the drugs. I'm having regular dexa scans to check my bones are ok. The plan is for me to stay on the drugs till I'm likely to have passed through the menopause, around 55. I'm quite apprehensive about what will happen when I stop them!

I have had 5 vaginal births and my VA was severe and my main meno symptom. I am a bit confused as to why delivery mode makes a difference!

NK ......260 because VA seems to be thought as " just shrinkage " by many so no vaginal births smaller vaginal canal , shrinks more than ours .

However as we no VA is far more than that , and this is a concept that needs changing .

Bumping - Polly, any words of advice, could my problems be down to hormones?

I don't know what you mean by 'clinic tick list' ?

Don't know where to start. 57, last period more than a year ago, ticked many of the questions on the clinic tick list given above as severe, have run 'hot' for about 20 years

Obviously if you have muscular- skeletal stuff going on or other neuro conditions, they need treatment regardless of HRT,.

Do you have sciatica? What else?

Polly thank you - the Surrey park clinic one mentioned by deux I thought maybe it was a standard one used in such circumstances. Sorry, I can't remember all the questions it asks. Don't worry, it's not fair to hijack like this or to expect you to diagnose me.

I suspect the list was a list of peri meno symptoms? Would that be right?
Put it this way, most GPs are not going to prescribe HRT unless you go in and say you have one or more of these:
hot flushes, night sweats, low mood, anxiety, tiredness, low libido, vaginal or bladder problems, joint pain, general aches and pains.

You had a late menopause if you went on till 56. have things got worse since your periods stopped?

ok I've had a look at the list.

It's not a list JUST for meno symptoms. It's a list of symptoms that can be caused by all kinds of hormone issues including PCOS etc.

They are looking for whatever symptoms women have as a guide to a diagnosis.

If you have typical meno symptoms then yes, HRT might help. But it's not a magic cure for all health conditions. (sure you know that!)

Vagifem vaginal oestrogen pessaries for VA ask for them at doctors

I've learned more from this site than from any of the medical sites I've tried. I'd never heard of VA until I came across it on Gnet.

If we can join up the dots, why can't the medical profession?

Thanks especially to polly .

Aaaah- have one back Bugger :) Hope you get on okay.

Would a man spend a third of his life ' bungling along ' in a state of ' hormone deficiency ' ? Of course not . Just see how it goes and make your own mind up with your doctor . No judgement meant to anyone who's not on HRT but no woman should beat herself up about menopause choices .

Well, statistically (and anecdotally), men are far less likely to go to the Drs about any concerns than women are bengalcat, so they probably would, yes.

After GnRH treatment for endometriosis in my thirties put me into a temporary artificial menopause, which was horrendous, and which I wasn't given any HRT to relieve, I vowed that when the time came for my natural meno, I would be on HRT like a shot!

Unfortunately, I had a hyster at 41 for adenomyosis and endo that left me with one sad little ovary floating around on the end of its blood supply, and she slowly expired over the course of the next two years. The exhaustion, anxiety, insomnia, sweats and aches built up over that time, exactly like the dimmer switch mentioned by a PP. I've just started on Vivelledot (am in France), and I can feel the lights coming back on day by day. It's fantastic. Only a little bit of bloating so far, but hell, I'll take that.

I've ranted on another thread about low expectations for women as we age. It may be because I am going through this a few years early, but the narrative that we ought to accept this awful loss of function as "natural" or inevitable makes me cross. We have the means to treat this, we know that the risk is small, so why the guilt over taking that opportunity? I don't get it. It's replacing what has ebbed away - it's not crack cocaine

The thing is Sophocles women are quite happy to 'medicate their misery' with wine, cake and chocolate- and love making jokes about it- anyone? all of which carry bigger health risks than HRT.

That's as debateable as everything else on this thread. Eg., wine & HRT (at any dose) can both be linked to cancers but cake & chocolate not so much.

It baffles me that I've had symptoms for decades that on MN get labeled as clear signs of Mp/must be corrected by HRT rather than merely getting older. I watch DH get the same things & similar ages (maybe HE should go on HRT!?) I guess I don't understand what it's like to have perfect health until age 40+ and to not be able to cope when perfect health fails.

There are MN threads with many posters who got thru Mp with very little trouble, but I guess unhappy people have more to say.

Also men's biology and natural life cycles are not pathologised as much as women's natural life stages are (menstruation, pregnancy, menopause).

I think you may be right, lljkk, in that those of us who are happy and healthy in menopause without pharmaceutical support are less likely to post about it and more likely to be out doing what we enjoy.

My only concern in these discussions is that the pro-HRT voices might be scare-mongering women approaching menopause into thinking they will get all these terrible symptoms, when many women actually don't experience anything severe enough for that kind of intervention.

I'm all for informed choice. I just wish both sides (pharma-free vs. HRT) were equally represented in these forums. But ALL of these threads seem completely dominated by the HRT cheerleaders. Any other viewpoint seems to be mocked and ridiculed. And that intimidates anyone with another viewpoint from posting at all.

There is no debate. Cake and chocolate (I could have said 'sugar') are contributors to being overweight if eaten in excess. Being overweight is directly linked to many types of cancer, heart disease and the diabetes epidemic. 60% of women are overweight. HRT is seen as being 'dangerous' but being overweight and drinking a couple of glasses every day is riskier to health. If you want to see the stats go to the Women's Health Concern site.

I don't know what you mean by various symptoms being linked to getting older. What kind of stuff?

Obviously if the symptoms coincide with periods stopping then they could be menopause related. If you have not had good health at all in your life then it can be harder to see what's going on.

It's not really fair to say most women get by ok- the fact is that 75% of women have symptoms, some of which last for 5 years, some for 20 years. What is clear is that many women have symptoms which they put down to 'getting older' , and put up with as if it's inevitable, when in fact it's down to menopause. It's still absolutely their choice if they want to use HRT.

Llljk surely that's lots of links of processed sugar (cake & choclate) To cancers? Importantly to diabetes too.

Alizon I don't see anybody mocking hrt free choices? Women are sharing their lived experiences & stating what's worked for them. Of course it's important that every woman does what's right for her. I don't hear anyone hear saying I thought I might have a symptom or had a mild flush so I took hrt?

Any other viewpoint seems to be mocked and ridiculed.
if you think this, can you please copy and paste what you feel are emotive comments showing mockery and ridicule? Because these sorts of accusations as offensive as the allegations.

Posting facts and stats is not a 'viewpoint'. If people want to go 'natural' or 'alternative' for menopause then some stats about what is proven to work would be helpful. All I see is 'belief', anecdotes and snide comments .

I take Promensil, a red clover supplement which contains genistein. Here is some evidence.

Extracts containing high levels of genistein (a substance derived from soy) appeared to reduce the number of daily hot flushes and need to be investigated further.

From Cochrane. www.cochrane.org/CD001395/MENSTR_phytoestrogens-for-vasomotor-menopausal-symptoms

If you go in the RCOG website you can look at patient information for
alternatives to HRT that can be helpful for those looking for symptom relief . However biggest cancer risk for both sexes excluding alcohol and smoking is obesity .

Cochrane Reviews are systematic reviews of primary research in human health care and health policy, and are internationally recognised as the highest standard in evidence-based health care. They investigate the effects of interventions for prevention, treatment and rehabilitation.