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Low-carb bootcamp

Join discussions about low-carb bootcamp plans, meals and progress. Consider speaking to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Week 8 - Pre-Christmas '24 Low Carb Bootcamp - the final week

55 replies

BIWI · 08/12/2024 15:29

So we come to our final week.

Here's the spreadsheet

Still time to drop a couple more pounds - which would also see two Bootcampers reaching the whole stone! @Comeonyoublues and @costevo we're all rooting for you Grin

Starting this chat thread early as I'm away tonight and don't know when I'll be online tomorrow, but I'll check in when I'm able.

Good luck everyone Flowers

Autumn 2024 Bootcamp

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AUEHin0tB7wq2D_bKWdUnN3QlZq2Nwzab9CUYgRRymk/edit?gid=1892381976#gid=1892381976

OP posts:
Crazyquilter · 12/12/2024 08:16

These last 8 weeks have got my head in the right place. Weight loss has been very gradual but the chart is going in the right direction. I'm not bothered about the loss of pasta, rice and potatoes but I am tempted by the thought of buttered sourdough bread! I am here for the longterm so will keep lowcarbing but now introduce a bit of fruit and see what effect that has.

Happy Christmas everyone!

DrBlackbird · 12/12/2024 08:35

I’m disappointed with myself for not getting to the next weight goal I’d hoped for though I’ve still lost a couple of pounds. This bootcamp has been challenging in that it’s a very busy time work-wise and I haven’t planned meals anywhere like I had been in the spring Bootcamp. Plus, eating out.

Planning really is key as it feels as though all the last minute food choices / snacks are really carby. I broke down to eat a stroop waffle biscuit thing when hungry and stressed with a deadline before reading the nutritional info onthe packet… 23g of carbs in a single biscuit… 23! Learned that lesson!

Also need to review the suggestions for LC meals as I need to bring more variety to the meal planning. Getting into a meal rut atm.

BIWI · 12/12/2024 09:39

There's a really interesting piece here about dietary guidelines in the USA. Nina Teicholz has written about this before, but this is a well-researched piece and, although it's about the US, is still worth a read - I'm sure many of the same issues arise in the UK. It's long, but definitely worth a read.

US Dietary Guidelines Remain an Evidence-Free Zone
Majority of clinical trials in expert reviews do not show health benefits
NINA TEICHOLZ
DEC 11

The highly-anticipated scientific report for the 2025 U.S. Dietary Guidelines was finally released yesterday by the U.S. Departments of Agriculture and Health and Human Services (USDA-HHS). The 421-page tome is meant to inform new guidelines due next year, although the task of writing the guidelines policy itself will fall to USDA-HHS political appointees.

Typically, the scientific report is released in early fall, allowing the mandatory 60-day public comment period to conclude before the outgoing administration finalizes the guidelines. However, in this case, the comment period will extend beyond the Biden administration into the Trump era, shifting responsibility for drafting the guidelines to the newly appointed Secretaries of the USDA and HHS.

While the Secretaries are legally required to issue dietary guidelines, the law sets few constraints on how they proceed. There’s no statutory requirement to promote the guidelines to the public, for instance, and the Secretaries can accept or reject recommendations from the scientific report as they please.
No doubt, any decisions they make will be seen as fueled by political considerations, yet there’s a far better reason to reject a number of the new recommendations: they are not based on rigorous science and, in many cases, would almost certainly harm our health.

Key recommendations in this report include:
Reducing red and processed meats;
Replacing poultry, meat, and eggs with peas, beans, and lentils as sources of protein;
No limits on ultra-processed foods; and
Continued caps on saturated fats, to be replaced by vegetable (seed) oils.

Controversy over ultra-processed foods
The question of whether the expert committee should set limits on ultra-processed foods (UPF) has sparked controversy ever since the group’s final public meeting, when it revealed it couldn’t make a recommendation to restrict these foods, because the evidence on them was “limited.” Calls for reducing UPF have transcended partisan lines—from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. reportedly advocating for their removal from school lunches to Marion Nestle, NYU professor emerita, calling the committee’s “non-recommendation” a “travesty.”

Indeed, there is, “remarkable, strong bipartisan concern about ultra-processed food,” as Jerold Mande, a former deputy undersecretary for food safety at the Department of Agriculture under two Democratic presidents, told Time magazine.

Nevertheless, the expert committee responsible for yesterday’s report insisted that the evidence for urging reductions in ultra-processed foods (UPF) was “limited.”

It's possible that conflicts of interest on the expert committee may have influenced this decision. Nine out of the 20 members were found to have a tie with food, pharmaceutical or weight loss companies or industry groups with a stake in the outcome of the guidelines, according to a report by the non-profit public interest group, U.S. Right to Know. The most frequently occurring conflicts were with Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly, makers of weight-loss shots like Ozempic and Wegovy.

Still, it’s important to say that the committee’s assessment of the evidence on UPF as limited is correct. The USDA systematic review of these foods found only one small clinical trial testing the effects of these foods on health outcomes. This trial, conducted at the National Institutes of Health, involved 20 adults for only 28 days (14 days on a UPF diet and 14 days on a whole-food diet). The subjects were found to consume more calories while on the UPF diet, but even so, the test is too small and preliminary to generalize its conclusions to an entire nation. As I’ve written before, we have many more and better studies on some of the components of ultra-processed foods—sugars and starches, for instance—and should act on these, more precise and robust data first.
Marion Nestle acknowledged on her blog that the advisory committee must stick to “evidence-based recommendations,” while giving the strong impression that she wished it weren’t so. She’s also quoted in a STAT articlethat headlines her comment about the “impossible restrictions” imposed on the guidelines by limiting recommendations to only those supported by strong evidence.
In my view, we should not be arguing for guidelines based on lesser evidence. The near-complete lack of rigorous data for the original guidelines in 1980 set in motion a Titanic of misguided advice that has coincided with our astonishing epidemics in chronic diseases. According to the best available government data, Americans have largely followed the guidelines, and despite this, we have not only become sick but very sick.

Echoing this view is a Congressionally mandated report by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, which concluded in 2017 that the US dietary guidelines are not currently “trustworthy,” in part due to a “lack of scientific rigor” in the process. Since then, little has changed (the USDA did not fully adopt even one of the Academies’ 11 recommendations). In this light, advocating for even less rigorous standards based on even weaker evidence seems to me misguided or possibly reckless.

Lower standards for reducing meat, poultry and eggs
Paradoxically, the expert committee was not a stickler for rigorous evidence when it came to advising reductions in meat, poultry, and eggs.

Before getting into the evidence, though, I’d like to revisit the likelihood (as I wrote in an earlier post) that these changes, if adopted, would exacerbate our disease epidemics. This advice does not consider that plant-based proteins are not as complete as those from animals and also not as bioavailable. Plant sources like peas and beans also pack a hefty load of carbohydrates and calories for the same amount of protein, making them a far less healthy option for people with metabolic conditions such as obesity and diabetes who need to be mindful of controlling their blood sugars.

The expert committee also found that reductions in meat, eggs, and poultry would lead to further shortfalls in fiber, and vitamins D and E, a significant fact given that the existing guidelines already fail to meet goals for vitamins D and E, folate, choline, and iron.

Here are the committee’s findings on nutrients announced at its final public meeting:

A lack of essential nutrients leads to a myriad of diseases and health conditions. One has to wonder why the long-standing nutritional deficiencies in the guidelines haven’t been corrected—and are getting worse.

Studies cited do not support expert report claims
Most importantly, the evidence used to support new and existing guidelines’ recommendations is insufficient and contradictory.

Three major systematic reviewson obesity, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease claim the data are “strong” to support claims that the US Dietary Guidelines prevent these conditions in adults. These reviews are also cited to support the new recommendation for reducing red/processed meats. Yet the clinical trials listed fail to support these claims.

Here are the trials listed for heart disease. As you can see, one trial shows cardiovascular benefit from red meat. Four trials show little-to-no benefit, and three are not trials but observational follow-up studies of trials published long ago. Another study was from 2017 and would had been covered in previous guidelines’ reviews. It’s fair to say that the totality of these results do not support the claim that the ability of the guidelines to prevent heart disease is “strong.”

The reviews on obesity and type 2 diabetes are much the same.

For obesity, 24 trials are listed. Among these:

Nine are reported to have “not statistically significant”¹ results on health outcomes for obesity;

One (Crosby 2022) was conducted by the animal rights group, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and is therefore likely to be biased;

Three (Alvarez-Perez, 2016, Casas, 2022, Van Horn, 2020)* *are incorrectly listed as clinical trials; these are follow-up observational studies to clinical trials published more than a decade ago;

Seven appear to show weight-loss benefits for a diet more-or-less like the Dietary Guidelines. Quite a few of these are hard to interpret, since the intervention diet reduced both red meat and sweets, so it’s not clear which of these dietary elements, or indeed the many others, might be responsible for the weight loss observed.

Other trials did not appear to test a diet similar to the Dietary Guidelines.

For type 2 diabetes, 13 trials are listed as evidence that the guidelines can prevent this condition. Of these:

Ten are reported to have “not statistically significant” results on health outcomes for diabetes;

Two (Howard, 2018 and Prentice, 2019) are incorrectly listed as clinical trials; these are follow-up observational studies on the Women’s Health Initiative, which had its results published in 2006.

A single trial (Pavic, 2019) appears to have shown some health benefits, but the outcomes aren’t clear (to me).

There are bound to be some mistakes in my lists above; this summary is just a first take.

Here’s the point: every step in the process that produces reviews like these is broken. The USDA office that conducts the reviews lacks rigor (as the National Academies found); the expert advisory committee doesn’t appear to have checked the evidence; and the “peer review” process for the systematic reviews was completed by federal employees with a conflict of interest (e.g., reviewers who criticize the USDA report rightly fear losing their jobs).

If you have been following my work, you know there’s a history here. When I fact-checked every single study cited in the 2015 Dietary Guidelines for a BMJ cover story, it triggered one of the largest retraction efforts in recent history—though it was ultimately unsuccessful. A key finding of my investigation was that the USDA-HHS dietary patterns were supported by “a minuscule quantity of rigorous evidence that only marginally supports claims that these diets can promote better health than alternatives.”

This paper has been largely ignored. Seven years later, in 2022, I teamed with top nutritionists, including former members of previous Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committees, to write a critical review of the guidelines that was published in a journal of the National Academies of Sciences. USDA-HHS officials responded with an article entitled, “Addressing misinformation about the Dietary Guidelines for Americans.”

I’m not a fan of the term “misinformation,” but with respect to non-evidence based dietary advice, the USDA-HHS are prominent actors. The National Academies and many peer-reviewed publications have now established the faulty evidence underpinning the US dietary guidelines, in addition to the lack of transparency and many conflicts of interest in the guidelines process.
We do not need more evidence. We require only the political will to create change so that we might have a national dietary policy that we can trust—and the good health that we deserve.

My thanks to Jenni Callihan for her research contribution.

In these reviews, “NS” is reported to mean “not statistically significant;” The word “null” means that the results do not support the hypothesis (in this case, that a Dietary Guidelines-type diet can prevent chronic diseases.
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© 2024 Nina Teicholz
c/o The Nutrition Coalition, 459 Columbus Ave. #710
New York, NY 10024

https://substack.com/redirect/a015bfe8-6bbd-4399-9aea-d1262c804db1?j=eyJ1IjoiMXFhbHlhIn0.t7p-cKFYE03yVg0PdNYkEWnVbA-a3U6pMpg8nPhrbvU

OP posts:
prettybird · 12/12/2024 10:05

Survived my Pilates Pals lunch yesterday (which included a lovely panna cotta Xmas Blush) without too much effect on the scales. Xmas Smile

Doubt I'm going to get to my admittedly ambitious target by Christmas Xmas Hmm - but I'm happy with where I've got and more importantly, with my body Xmas Wink

Rayna37 · 12/12/2024 11:53

In response to @NoCarbsForMe for what I eat in a day, my work days are fairly standard as I work in an office out of the house with limited access to shops/vending machines or other temptations so more often than not I can only eat what I bring. We do have a kitchen though.

Normally breakfast is two boiled eggs- I cook in bulk a few days at time and eat mid morning.

Lunch is salad- again ideally I'll prep up to three at one go. Almost always spinach, tomato, cucumber and if I have them some or all of celery/radish/pepper. Olive oil rather than dressing. For protein with it usually tuna mayo, mackerel, leftover roast meat and mayo, feta and olives, or egg/cheese/mayo with chives maybe. I often flavour mayo with wholegrain mustard or gochujang paste. I might have leftovers microwaved (though I'm more likely to save them to be dinner another time) and outside of bootcamp might make a 3 bean chilli in the slow cooker or homemade hummus to go with the salad. Always plain/greek yogurt for "pudding", occasionally with a few berries or bit of nut butter added.

Dinner last night was a venison stew I'd made and frozen a few weeks ago, with sautéed kale and microwaved Brussels.

Tonight after the nativity we'll have pork and beef bolognaise I batch cooked earlier, probably on mushrooms as we have no courgettes in.

Water, tea/coffee usually 2-4 a day, and chamomile and mint teas.

DrBlackbird · 12/12/2024 12:46

@BIWI really fascinating article. Vested interests, limits to what science knows and can measure, little solid research, ‘beliefs’ resting on assumptions and anecdotal evidence abound throughout so many of our food guidelines. I still remember the decades we’d been told to have no more than two eggs a week and that avocados were unhealthy. Unfortunately, it’s hard to let go of that thinking even when we see the updated evidence.

DrBlackbird · 12/12/2024 13:07

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/12/from-red-meat-to-alcohol-the-factors-that-affect-bowel-cancer-risk

Even the headline is somewhat misleading as it’s not the meat but what is added to the meat that’s problematic. Grocery stores could stock a much bigger selection of nitrate free meats and I’m nonplussed at why they don’t offer this healthier option for customers?

From red meat to alcohol: the factors that affect bowel cancer risk

As a study reveals that England has fourth-fastest growth rate globally, we outline some of the issues that increase risk

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/12/from-red-meat-to-alcohol-the-factors-that-affect-bowel-cancer-risk

BIWI · 12/12/2024 13:11

It also really irritates me when they lump processed meats in with raw red meat.

If you're interested in this kind of background, Gary Taubes' book The Diet Delusion is really fascinating - he goes through all the political reasons for fat being vilified back in the late 70s/early 80s, as well as the role that the media played in this (never mind Big Food). It's an incredibly well researched book, as is Nina Teicholz's book The Big Fat Surprise, which was written some years after his.

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DrBlackbird · 12/12/2024 22:33

BIWI · 12/12/2024 18:41

... but also an interesting piece of news about dark chocolate and how it might help with type 2 diabetes:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20241210/Sweet-news-Dark-chocolate-reduces-type-2-diabetes-risk.aspx

Now that sort of nutritional information I can get onboard with 😆

Gunnersforthecup · 13/12/2024 11:15

In response to the what are you eating question:

3 x eggs with boursin for breakfast

might have some mushrooms, tomatoes bacon for lunch

snack: celery sticks and a lump of cheese

supper: last night was roast pork with green bans, cauliflower and broccoli

then yoghurt with a little cream and a few blueberries

lots of weak tea through day

couple of coffees in the morning

I use unsweetened almond milk at home.

Eating outside home:

I tend to go to somewhere like waitrose and find something like crab pate that I can eat with a spoon, or buy a packet of ham.

We went to a Nepalese restaurant on Monday and I had a salted lassi (sort of savoury yoghurt drink), chicken in a fenugreek sauce and saesonal vegetables in a sauce.

Previously I was out and ended up getting a Sainsbury's cooked breakfast. I got a doggy bag and put in everything I didn't want at that point and took it home (someone else was happy to eat it for me!) I just had 2 x bacon, 2 x eggs, a big mushroom and a sausage.

in case that is helpful?

CleanQueen123 · 14/12/2024 09:01

No loss this week but there we are. From experience the first half stone comes off relatively easily, it's from here on in it gets harder.

Definitely interested in a quick January bootcamp to keep me going in the right direction post-Christmas.

DrBlackbird · 14/12/2024 11:35

Adding to say that I’m so happy that for the first time in many years to have dropped below the 160 line. No doubt I’ll see saw above and below that number, but it adds to the motivation to keep going.

prettybird · 14/12/2024 11:57

I successfully navigated lunch out at the Scotch Malt Whisky Society yesterday, despite them not having got their charcuterie delivery so I couldn't have my usual cold meats platter Xmas Shock. Instead I had smoked salmon followed by a starter sized portion of Shetland mussels à la marinière (and spooned up all the lovely creamy wine juice after I'd eaten them). SIL had the full size version which came with chips. The lovely waitress even delivered "my" bread straight to dh Grin

Down to 12st 6.5lb, so not going to achieve my overly ambitious target by Christmas Eve but I'm ok with that Xmas Smile

Magnolia82 · 14/12/2024 17:14

Hello all. Sorry I've been quiet on the threads - life is very busy! I also don't really have much to report. I've not lost any weight this bootcamp (I don't have much to lose, but I'm still a bit disappointed).

I've been eating low carb for (I think?) around a year now. Maybe longer? I just wondered, particularly for those of you who are long-term low-carbers, - what's your plan over Christmas?

I don't really drink alcohol (I think I've had 2 glasses of wine in the last year!), I'm not bothered about potatoes, crisps, pasta, rice, etc. But I think I would like to plan in a couple of mince pies and/or the odd dessert. However, I also know from experience that due to being short/petite and not much to lose, I can easily gain pounds by just eating slightly more than usual and then it can genuinely take me 6 months to lose what I gain over a few days!

I'm not really sure what I'm asking! I think I'm just feeling a bit stuck and a bit sad that surely in life we should be able to enjoy the occasional warm mince pie!

Gunnersforthecup · 14/12/2024 20:54

Plans for Christmas include

  • roast duck
  • smoked salmon
  • prawns
  • experiment with ? low carb egg nog /? low carb zabaglione /? low carb syllabub, we'll see
  • pheasant breasts with mushroom/bream/ ?brandy/ peppercorn sauce
  • roast celeriac and cauliflower cheese will feature
  • as will tenderstem broccoli, baby leeks and asparagus most likely
  • champagne
  • and I will eye up the meat counter and fish counter for good reductions on treats
  • also a little dark chocolate
prettybird · 14/12/2024 21:25

Fortunately I dislike hot or even warm mince pies Xmas Shock - so I freeze my fabulous home made made pies so that they can only be eaten warm Xmas Wink

My plan is to just eat one for purely quality control purposes Xmas Wink and that way I've satisfied my mine pie desire Xmas Grin

prettybird · 14/12/2024 21:28

I'll repeat the advice that I got two Christmases ago: I am no a human trash can

That really helped remind me not just to finish stuff off "just because it's there" Xmas Confused

prettybird · 14/12/2024 22:53

Too late to edit but that should have been "I am not a human trash can" Xmas Smile

ReconstructionSite · 15/12/2024 08:44

My weekend has been fairly off piste so far, but I have family visiting and I like to think I've done so consciously for the most part (but definitely have entered slippery slope territory).

What's been interesting is how little has felt "worth it"... echoing earlier posters.

Homemade mince pie - worth it. Most other bits... not so much. I think I would rather have had a baked sweet potato or homemade dahl than a slice of pizza! Definitely something for me about quality and whole food over carby convenience food, which feels good to know.

prettybird · 15/12/2024 09:26

Had a pleasant surprise this morning: was down to 12st 4.5lb Xmas Smile

Had a lovely thick fillet steak, cooked in thyme infused frothing butter, with buttery mange tout and fried shallots.

Tonight we're having venison and redcurrant sausages (bought at Tebay last week). Will serve up mashed potatoes for dh and ds and do extra veg for me (probably shoogled brussels and baby sweet corn). Need to get one of the veggie options out the freezer for ds' girlfriend - although I do have a head of broccoli in the fridge that is needing used up and a pack of halloumi that had been opened, so I might do the tasty chargrilled broccoli and halloumi dish for her.

NoCarbsForMe · 15/12/2024 10:11

Thank you so much to those of you who have shared what you've been eating. I find it really helpful to get ideas. Love mussels! 🦪

Yesterday I ate:
B: FFGY with frozen cherries and a handful of the most delicious low carb granola

L: scrambled eggs, avocados, smoked salmon, pickles and a tiny bit of sourdough (was out with friends and couldn't resist)

D: home made leek & fennel soup oh and some Padron peppers fried then sprinkled with salt

There have been some slippery slopes appearing this weekend here too... couple of glasses of wine last night and some chocolate covered pistachios someone bought round.
Definitely need to get back on it today! Will head to the gym later 💪🏽🏋🏻‍♀️

NoCarbsForMe · 15/12/2024 10:13

Totally agree with whoever said the first half stone is easiest.., how do we push past the slump??? (I know, i know don't drink wine!)

prettybird · 15/12/2024 11:15

@NoCarbsForMe : the answer really is to simply KOKO.

A large part of the initial half stone is due to water and releasing the glycogen stores.

Thereafter, the average loss will be the same as any other (healthy Wink) diet, at 1-2lb a week. That might mean a few weeks when there is no movement at all (even occasionally a slight upward movement Hmm) but as long as you KOKO and don't cheat , eventually the scales will start moving again. You might even get a "whoosh" Grin