Week 9 - Low Carb Bootcamp - the last fortnight is here

[BIWI]

Good morning all

I see from the end of last week's thread that some of us have been struggling with various demons.

We only have two weeks left, so time to gird your loins (however you do that!), and plough on.

Hopefully the snow has gone, or is disappearing rapidly, and that there's enough appropriate food in the shops. At least our problem is not being able to find what we want - I saw a very sad piece in the news yesterday about a dairy farmer, who was having to throw all his milk away, because the tanker couldn't get to his farm to collect it. So days' worth of money for him gone

Anyway, here's the lovely new thread, and with the fantastic Spreadsheet of Fabulousness.

Good luck this week. Stick with it and keep the focus.

@AthelstaneTheUnready

A few things I'd say:

• with a BMI of 22 you are already in the 'healthy' range; weight loss at this stage will be slow
• you did lose 6lbs in the first two weeks, which shows you that low carbing works!
• 5 days of cheating - no matter how they were triggered - will have seriously undermined you; in fact you're lucky you didn't put weight on

Without seeing exact menus or quantities, it's pretty hard to give you any more specific advice - it sounds like you're eating the right things, but there's also the possibility that you're not eating enough, if you're not having breakfast and then only eating a small lunch.

I'm not really sure if I buy into the 'starvation' theory - @StuntNun should be able to help here!

It does also sound to me like exercise would really come into play for you now, and I echo the evangelism for C25K!

What would be very helpful is to know what you've been eating. Have you been keeping a food diary? It might be useful, if you have, to go back to the first two weeks of Bootcamp and see what you were eating then, compared with now.

And also don't forget what you've been drinking too!

Another running convert here athlestane. Could you drive yourself somewhere to run? I sometimes drive to a local stately home grounds and have a trot round there. I get bored doing the same routes

Athelstane it's difficult to tell without seeing your food log but my first suggestion would be to increase the proportion of fat in your diet. Another idea is to log all your food in MyFitnessPal for three days so that we can get a clear idea of your calorie intake and macros. I second exercise for sorting out your 'droopy bits'. I favour a combination of HIIT and bodyweight or weight training exercises, no need to go running unless you enjoy it. I have also found Pilates to be excellent for your figure because it improves your core muscles and posture.

BIWI, at this stage I'm beginning to believe neither a week's fasting, nor eating a million doughnuts a day, will alter my weight - it seems immutably fixed!

No food diary I'm afraid, but today was typical (I tend to eat mostly the same things every day):

B - black coffee
L - medium sized bowl (about the size of two fists?*) of prawn, mackerel, mayonnaise, watercress and spinach
D - a fist-size portion of roast beef, and about three fist-sizes of mixed broccoli, leek and sprouts done in the microwave with about two fingers' worth of butter

Does that sound like a lot? Or not enough? I'm not hungry for any more, and I don't snack (because I'm not hungry, not because I have fabulous levels of willpower). Apart from the cat-sorrow binge that included wine, I have been Drybruarying and am now Drymarching as well.

Another vote for C25K, eh? . Well, I said I'd try it, and I will, but I won't say I'm happy about it

• apologies - one thing I love about this WOE is supposedly not having to measure, and so I, er, don't...

Aargh, all the closet runners!
Rshard, yes, I'll need to find somewhere I can try it unobserved, otherwise I just know I'll stop running and pretend to be causally walking instead . I'll have a think tomorrow.

Thanks, Stunt - I'll go look up MFP now - clearly it would help to know exactly how much of what I'm eating. I do do some bodyweight exercises at home (a mix of callanetics and some random stuff I found on MDA), which is bringing out a bit of tone nicely, but doing nothing to remove the layer of flab surrounding it.

I'm just going to have to give in on this cardio stuff, aren't I.

BIWI what do you mean by 'starvation theory'? I must have missed that post.

The idea that if you cut your calories right back, your body responds by hanging on to the weight.

I know that the homeostasis mechanism is very strong, but I've read about this starvation theory before - there used to be a series of threads on MN that also talked about the idea number of calories you should have daily, based on your TDEE (?) and a level higher than that. (Sorry, my memory is very vague here!!!), and that you had to eat a certain number of calories, otherwise you won't lose weight.

Ring any bells?!

I've read something like that, BIWI, about how your body drops energy expenditure to match reduced calorie input, so you're eating less but also using less, so not losing weight. Allegedly a longer term thing though, not one to kick in over a matter of weeks.

MFP tells me I should be on 1200 calories a day, but today was only 1107. 11carbs, 58fat, and 126 protein. Is that good? Or terrible? It thinks I've had too much protein, but then again, it also thinks I haven't had my 45g sugar today, so not inclined to trust it!

There's a really interesting article debunking the myth of 'starvation mode' here

You definitely aren't eating enough fat - you should be high fat, medium protein and low carb. BUT - MFP is notoriously unreliable!

Thank you Biwi for the new thread. I didn’t manage to weigh this morning but will do so in the morning. I made a curry for the family tonight and felt very decadent as I stirred some double cream in at the end - it was delicious though!

Athelstane 1200 calories is really not very much. That alone could account for you not losing weight. As a rule of thumb I don't like to see people going below 1400 calories per day for successfully weight loss. If that's a typical day then you're eating far too little fat. Your fat macro works out at 47% where it should be 70-80%. Your carbs are very low which gives you a little room to manoeuvre. Your protein at 45% is at the high end of the ideal range (20-45%) so you could trim that back a little if you wanted, although it won't be doing you any harm. The simplest way for you to kickstart your weight loss would be to keep eating as you are (maybe cut protein a little and increase fat a little) and add in one bulletproof coffee per day. I reckon it would be worth trying that for a week or two to see whether it works.

In terms of starvation mode, I do think it exists but it is more complicated that is usually assumed. It depends on diet, timing of food, hormonal status, and level of insulin resistance as well as calorie intake. One example is that starvation mode doesn't occur during prolonged fasting even though calorie intake is zero. What we do see empirically is that when someone is chronically undereating it can slow or stop weight loss.

Thanks, BIWI and Stunt - really appreciate a knowledgeable eye on the figures!

I think it may be more fat than MFP thinks, as I usually try to go for red meat that's about 1/4 visible fat, but am delighted to hear I should be swamping the veg in even more butter [greedy face]

Have some coconut oil in the house, so will try the coffee tomorrow morning.

Thanks, again, for the tips. And thank you for all who've suggest running as well - it's so nice to have some outside help.

As an aside, on the Minnesota starvation experiment mentioned in the article BIWI linked to, the starvation diet was 1570 calories per day. It's amazing that in the 40s that was considered starvation whereas now I often see people trying to get below 1000 calories to lose weight.

Help!!
Can anybody find a link to the lamb / pork / beef recipes thread that was at the top of the low carb boot camp section and has now done a runner (for me at least!!)
I can’t live without it please

Firstly don’t shout at me
I bought the How to Lose Weight Well book the other day (did I say I had a book addiction) with the recipes and three diet plans from the series I guess. In the beginning it says you need to spend a couple of weeks eating what your body actually needs calorie wise before starting the plans. To do that you need to calculate your weight in pounds and multiple that number by 13 which gives you your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) and the number of calories you need in order to function day to day. For me that’s a big number but the author says you have to trust this number. Then when you start there are 3 plans. Kickstart which is 12 days 3 of which are fasting (500 cals) and the other 9 are your calories as above reduced by 500. The next plan -Shapeshifters- you do 6 weeks at 400 below your BMR and she reckons you can lose up to 2lbs a week. Then it’s the Transformers which is the life plan and basically it’s eat to your new BMR. 80% of the time and allow She favours low carb as well.

Now I’m not doing this because I cannot see how it can work, or how it works if you have a lot to lose (v v slowly I suppose) but I am interested in what others with knowledge on here think. The author Stacie Stewart lost 5 stone doing it.

...and allow 20% of allowances to indulge and keep your sanity
I bought it because some of the recipes looked quite nice...she says feebly.

Sorry, Athel, I seem to have started something!

Totally get you re hills and people. Too many hills here for me to run outside, and I really don’t want anyone to see me in my Lycra! Work has a small gym which is cheap to use and empty so I can put my music on full blast and not worry about annoying anyone.

It’s definitely been a good thing mentally for me. 9 weeks was a manageable target, and although I didn’t really think I’d manage 5km the amount of pride I felt when I ran the distance for the first time (though I 40 minutes) was amazing. Not all the runs are easy: I remember desperately wanting to give up after 10 mins of one of the longer (25 mins??) runs. I refused to give up so soon but allowed myself to stop at 20 if I needed to. Luckily I got my second wind just before the 20 were up and kept going for another ten. And I felt great at the end! And that’s it, I always feel a great sense of achievement once I’m done.

Starvation mode isn't a thing, think about it. Why would anorexics and concentration camp victims lose so much weight if it was a thing. I think people just got confused on what the experiment was saying. You drop enough calories you will lose weight it's that simple. Of course if you drop them minorly and then lay on the couch all day you'll not lose so much, your bmr will,drop too, but if uou drop your calories enough and keep moving you will absolutely lose weight. The experiment does not dispute this.

Anyways on a more positive note I just bought a rowing machine and am stupidly excited, should come in about a week. 😇

Re all the exercise stuff...I've had a look at the C25K and it does look sort of manageable. I think. I'm not a runner at all - never have been - so I don't know whether I could seriously give it a go, but maybe I'll have a try when I get back from holiday. I can walk for miles (and do), but running gets me out of breath really quickly. That's probably a sign I need to do more, right...?

Bluntness - that reminds me, I bought an exercise bike a bit ago. Would probably do more good inside the house where I'd be shamed into using it than hidden away in the garage....

Meanwhile, the Slendertone Abs Flex I got on eBay does a lovely job of exercising my abs while I watch television

I weighed this morning because I coulcdn't do it yesterday ...and i've put weight on - 2lbs! - and i don't know why. I've not cheated, I'm still on BC proper (not light) and I feel particularly aggrieved because I was struggling over the weekend with empty shops and fridge yet still stuck to it.

I have been reading Athel's posts and replies with great interest because I am similar in terms of weight and size and difficulty in shifting these last pounds. I am a week ahead so, in theory, this is my last week (but I'll be carrying on) and I'm disheartened that I've not lost much at all since my whoosh. I'm going to download MFP and see how i get on. Like Athel, I haven't written things down so far.

By the way, Athel I am another lover of running - sorry! Sadly, I can't do it anymore because of a recurring injury in achilles but I hope to return at some stage. I do it outside rather than gym and get a high from it that lasts a couple of days. It's addictive. The first few weeks are tough when you first start, though - but if you persevere, it's sooo worth it.

BlackMozart there are lots of different ways to lose weight. That diet plan sounds reasonable if you have the willpower to put up with the calorie restriction. I personally couldn't be bothered with counting calories all day long so I prefer the freedom of Bootcamp. I think a lot depends on your mentality as well. So many people tell me they couldn't possibly give up bread and pasta so they need to try something different.

I am honour bound to point out, though, that although the Minnesota experiment 'victims' were eating 1570 calories - they were all men, in which case that's considerably fewer than the recommended daily calorie allowance for men. I would hate to think that female Bootcampers thought we were recommending that daily amount.

Like @StuntNun, it's the not counting or weighing everything that is important to me. Indeed it's why I first thought up Bootcamp!

However, you do need to be aware of what you're putting in your mouth, and the carb and calorie 'load' that you're consuming.

In general, in the UK, we all consume far too many calories (not even thinking about the carbs). Allegedly, the size of dinner plates has increased over the years, so now we eat from much bigger plates - which means that we fill our plates with more food without even thinking about it.

We eat out or have takeaways a lot more - when I was growing up, in the 60s and 70s, takeaways were an occasional treat - most likely fish and chips - and going out for a meal was definitely reserved for a special occasion.

Think, too, of how many times a day you drink tea/coffee - and/or go to Starbucks/Costa/Caffe Nero etc for a takeaway coffee? Chance are, there's a biscuit alongside that tea/coffee, if not a muffin or a cupcake or a brownie.

We also think that we need to snack during the day. I read a lot of posts here where posters are asking what snacks they should plan to include in their day. And even if we think we're choosing healthy snacks, next time you're in the checkout queue alongside all those Graze packs, just have a look at the ingredients - the calories, the sugar and the carbs (as well as whatever else goes in them!)

My point here is that we have become used to eating far more calories and carbs than we need.

Whilst on Bootcamp we're cutting the carbs significantly, and the mantra is 'you don't need to count calories', I think it's still a very valid point that we should all, from time to time, step back and look at what we're eating.

The article I linked to - whilst it had a rather hostile tone of voice - does make a good point, that we often consume rather more than we think we do. Not that we're lying to ourselves, rather that we forget, or deny it.

How many cups of coffee or tea do we have during the day that we don't bother to count? That milk all adds up!

This post is aimed at all of us - not just those who are struggling to lose, but it was inspired by @AthestaneTheUnready and @LeapinLizards.

Calories do matter overall - and as you get within a stone or so of your desired target, you will have to start giving them consideration. But even for the rest of us, we do need to be mindful of what we're eating. Taking carbs out of the diet doesn't mean that we can just pile our plates high!

Morning all...another day at the coal face.

Good luck everyone today.

I'm just focusing on remembering why I'm doing this to keep the motivation going. Spring and summer are just round the corner and it would be nice to be feeling good during those months..