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Original poster

3 hour tantrums at bedtime

48 replies

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:20

For the last month my 6 year old dd has been screaming for at least 2.5 hours every night before bed....saying she doesnt want to go to sleep...im sat here crying writing this after another marathon crying and shouting session i just dont know what to do.....im ashamed to admit that I shook her tonight i cant take anymore of this and im stuggling to keep it together...she is making up any excuse for me to go up or her to come down, from saying she needs to tell me something to asking for my partner over and over. I have been to the doctor today and its a two month waiting list for the psychologist. She is always moving her hands and getting so agitated at bedtime but during the day she is a lovely adorable little girl. I have screamed and screamed tonight i have no one to help me and I just dont know what to do, im scared of how i feel at night and how things are going, im getting angrier each night and dont want to be like it, please help any advice would be much appreciated I feel like a failure of a mum as i keep shouting, i know all she wants is a cuddle but she gets them all the time and its breaking my heart seeing her like this every night but if i keep giving into her its not going to change but I cant keep on like this

OP posts:

scurryfunge · 05/07/2010 21:26

Sorry you are going through this....it must be very wearing.

You have to be firm and not keep returning to her and pandering to her demands.

She is old enough to be told what is acceptable and what is not.

Reward her for good bedtime behaviour the following day with a treat.

Make sure there is a routine at bedtime with no deviations and give her plenty of warning when bedtime is.

CarGirl · 05/07/2010 21:30

I would either co-sleep with her, ie lay in bed with her until she goes to sleep or do the rapid return with absolutely no interaction from you, ie talking etc etc etc

Do you think something has happened for this to suddenly start?

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:33

the thing is she has always slept and gone to bed really well...she hasnt had good bedtime behaviour for a long time...i have always told her in advance when bedtime is, tonight I took her up at 6.30 as I knew how bad it would be, read her a story, sat with her for 10 mins holding her hand and then told her just before that I was going back downstairs and thats where it starts, anything to stay awake...i just dont understand as she cant enjoy screaming for two hours and isnt gettng any positive attention....i have tried staying downstairs and not coming back up but she jumps up and down on the bed, screams for a drink or that shes sorry and then tries anything she can to get into a conversation or screaming match... i dont know whether to stay wth her tomrorow until she falls asleep as I know it would be over a lot quicker?

OP posts:

CarGirl · 05/07/2010 21:34

When it first started to go downhill had something else happened in life? Starting school, a problem with friends etc etc?

MollieO · 05/07/2010 21:36

Have had similar with my 6 yr old. If he comes downstairs after I have put him to bed and won't go back up I just let him sit on the sofa and I ignore him. If I challenge him, shout etc it makes it so much worse - he just behaves in the same way only louder. He has started to realise that mummy's evening after he has gone to bed is pretty dull and he really isn't missing anything.

It is hard as there is no one else to take turns in getting them to go to bed. I have learnt to choose my battles. When I am trying to get ds to go to bed I always remind him how early he will be woken up the next morning and how miserable he will feel if he is tired. Sometimes he does just sit on the sofa and fall asleep. It annoys me but I have realised that no one benefits if I get completely wound up by his behaviour and one of us has to be the adult.

Why does the GP think she needs to see a psychologist?

CarGirl · 05/07/2010 21:37

When it first started to go downhill had something else happened in life? Starting school, a problem with friends etc etc?

MollieO · 05/07/2010 21:39

When ds is shouting down the stairs for something or to apologise etc I completely ignore him and do not go up. Sometimes he will throw every toy he has down the stairs. He is getting better but I would say that at its worst his behaviour lasted for about 6 months.

scurryfunge · 05/07/2010 21:40

Try bringing the bedtime to a bit later to start with...7pm or even 7.30pm. Does she do any activity late in the day that will get her tired? A trampoline, dog walk, water the flowers...anything at all that requires physical activity. Allow some quiet time upstairs on her own for a short while...reading or colouring. Any stories by you should be down stairs as that creates an excuse to keep you there longer.

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:40

I have sat and talked to her for hours over the last few days, she said that she was scared I was going to leave and not come back and also she was scared of dying I really have no idea where this came from. I thought once she had unburdened herself of this and I had reassured her it may get better. She has just been away on her first holiday wit her dad and his gf and this all started about two weeks before that she was very clingy to me and crying for me all the time..I feel so horrible I have said some terrible things to her and I can the fear in her eyes when Im shouting at her...i have tried to be calm and i can for about an hour but then i just lose it...its so hard as i need time to do all the other things. i have another dd who is 8 and she is ending up on sofa as she cant get to sleep upstairs:-(

OP posts:

Megancleo · 05/07/2010 21:44

Perhaps it really is an age thing, all of my 3dc were incredibly imaginative at this age and in fact, my last dc could only sleep in her bed if after a story, I laid down with her until she slept. Of course I wouldn't want to carry on like that for always but better to make big but firm comprimises in such a phase than to end up (as we all have been sometime) feeling out of contol and on the edge of something not good-take it easy!

archstanton · 05/07/2010 21:46

You must be shattered!
Could she be having night terrors? Has something happened that has made her frightened of sleeping?

Don't feel a failure if you cuddle her to sleep for a few nights. It may be that this resets her and makes her calm again then agree a treat with her for each day she goe sto her own bed. Maybe move from co-sleeping to having her bed in your room for a few nights then back into her own room.

Sorry, not much help but good luck.

scurryfunge · 05/07/2010 21:47

She will see the discrepency in allowing the older child downstairs because she can't get to sleep and her having to stay upstairs when she also can't get to sleep.It is a vicious circle and divisive.

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:47

thank you megancleo i think at the moment that is my only option, maybe she just needs some time to feel safe, i have lost it tonight and i dont want her to be scared of me, i screamed so much and she was screaming back. She keeps saying im a horrible mummy and then just says sorry all the time. I feel like a complete failure when its like this as I know I should keep control but I cant

OP posts:

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:49

As far as im aware there is nothing she she has been scared of, she has always slept so well and i dont recall when this actually started. Im going to try staying with her until she falls asleep for next couple of nights and see if it helps, i hate being like this

OP posts:

sevenkeystomysoul · 05/07/2010 21:50

Feel really sad for you and your DD, and totally identify with the 'struggling to keep it together' feeling. My DD is much younger, but has always been very bad at going to sleep and now, at three, I often have to leave her to fall asleep on the sofa in front of a DVD before putting her into bed. It is so very difficult to deal with issues like this on your own, no-one to take over or to be the voice of reason when you're at the end of your tether. You say she keeps asking for your partner, have you recently split? If so, could that be the reason for her getting so upset at bedtime? Has something else happened that could have made her scared of going to sleep/being on her own in her room? Maybe even a nightmare?

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:53

Me and her dad split 4 years ago and I now have an amazing partner who hasnt got children and who doesnt live with me....she adores him and hates him leaving...if i put her to bed I make sure she has her kiss and cuddle of him and then go upstairs or we both take her up and one of us stays but then she starts asking for whichever of us isnt there...saying she forgot a kiss or a cuddle or that she didnt say goodbye its a lot like OCD she has a pattern of saying "goodnight, love you, sweet dreams, hope you have a nice sleep" if this isnt said she panics

OP posts:

CarGirl · 05/07/2010 21:53

I wonder if you could try the cuddling her until relaxed and doing the I will check back with you every 5 minutes. Leave the bedroom door open and do things like tidy up in the bathroom & bedrooms so you are around and she can hear you and do the popping back in every 5 minutes. Quick kiss on the head?

Just thinking then she is getting what she needs/wants but on your terms?

snice · 05/07/2010 21:55

6.30pm sounds incredibly early for a 6 yr old to be going up to bed even if it is the start of a wind down process.

My 6yr old rarely finishes dinner before 6.30 then plays outside for half an hour or so.

Could you push bedtime back a bit and spend the time playing a board game together or something perhaps?

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:57

that sounds like a good idea CG i am willing to try anything, its hard as im so used to them both going to bed and all being happy...i have suffered depression on and off for a couple of years and find times like this really stressful...i feel guilty and horrible now and this feeling doesnt go away. I screamed in her face tonight and she just looked at me with a blank expression..im so worried about her and i think the only way i can work this out it by staying with her i sound awful and it must sound like im a nutter to everyone else...

OP posts:

CarGirl · 05/07/2010 21:59

Do does your dd associate her going to bed with your dp leaving?

Original poster

fedupwelshmum · 05/07/2010 21:59

tonight is the first time I did the 6.30pm thing as i couldnt cope with another screaming session until 10pm. It doesnt seem to matter when she goes to bed it used to be 7.30/8ish but then this would go longer into the night..im worried about the effect this is having on my other one and leaving her out as little one is getting all attention. Im trying to make sure we do nice things togiether in the daytime, walks, feeding the ducks that kind of thing but nothing seems to make a difference, she starts panicking and moving her hands a lot when bedtime approaches

OP posts:

snice · 05/07/2010 22:00

Do you think having a story tape/CD to listen to would help?

archstanton · 05/07/2010 22:01

That sounds like a good idea. I'd say get her a clock though and start with 2minutes then return. Show her where the minute hand will be after the 2minutes in case she wants to watch the clock. I would do 2min 3 times then 5min then 10min until she falls asleep. Then start next night with 5m.

The clock and starting with a small amount of time will help her trust and feel less anxious as she sees you come when you say you will. Ideally she'll eventually realise she can go to sleep and that if she needs you in the night you'll always come.

Niceguy2 · 05/07/2010 22:03

You are overthinking things.

This is one of those situations which you will have to tough out because you've inadvertently made things worse for yourself.

See, your DD now has got into the routine whereby bedtime is a battle. If she does something loud enough and long enough then she will get your attention. Ok, you are shouting & screaming but she's won your attention and delayed bedtime.

Eventually she will fall asleep exhausted and upset. The next day, history repeats. Except this time you swear you will be tougher. So she escalates because hey, it worked last night!

Have you seen Supernanny? The technique where they get no attention after a few times? That's what you need to do. No emotional reaction, no talking. Bed each time.

The first few days will be mega tough but it does work if you persevere. If you give in once though then you will just go right back to the beginning.

CarGirl · 05/07/2010 22:05

fedupwelshmum

do you think there could be a link between her associating bedtime with your dp leaving?

You said she is very anxious etc why I'm not sure the ultra tough rapid return technique would be right for her?

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