Replying to solicitors letter

[NutterForAnEx]

(I've namechanged just in case ex has tracked me down here)

A bit of background - ex moved out a couple of years ago after I got fed up of living with a boozer. After a lot of messing around, contact between him and the DCs settled down to Saturday afternoon at his house. The DCs don't stay overnight with him because he can't be trusted to stay sober (we tried it and he got rat-faced and the kids ended up calling me to rescue them ) He turns up more often than not but still misses a lot of days.

Anyway, a solicitor has just written to me saying that the ex wants to see the kids more and have them overnight too. Part of me wants to write back saying "over my dead body, numbnuts" but anyone got any better ideas?

I can't afford a solicitor but I earn too much for legal aid so I was thinking of saying "If your client wants to see the kids more than he does at present, he can do that by remembering to turn up for the contact he's already got." Obviously I'll write it a bit neater than that but how does that sound?

give a brief outline and chronology of dates missed, and say you will agree to contact taking place supervised in a contact centre

Just state the facts, that the last time the childred stayed he became dangerously intoxicated, and for the welfare of your children, it is not appropriate.

Ask them to please convey your disappointment at the access visits he misses, as it upsets the children.

The childred? That's what my Granny used to say! (Irish)

ilovemydog, I've thought about a contact center but I'd rather not do that to my DCs unless I really had to. And it would look strange to have allowed unsupervised contact for two years and then suddenly say it's got to be supervised.

I like the idea of the chronology, though. Ta! The solicitor's letter shows that the ex has glossed over lots of important events (like him ending up in hospital for alcohol withdrawal, and him not seeing the kids for three months last year) so a bit of background might help.

ItsAllaBitNoisy, thanks for the tips. I like the phrase "welfare of the children" and it's true, too. The DCs do sometimes talk about overnights with their dad after he's prompted them, but they still remember the times when they were there and he was drunk as it terrified them.

I think I'll use these suggestions and also include a bit along the lines of:

"The children benefit from consistency and reliability and are always deeply disappointed and hurt when your client does not arrive. Until your client can demonstrate a reliable commitment to the children by regularly turning up for the existing Saturday contact, I do not feel it would be in the children's best interests to increase contact. All it would do would be to give your client even more opportunities to let the children down. I think the time to reconsider contact arrangements will be when your client stops drinking for good."

Um, maybe the last sentence:

" Contact arrangements can always be reviewed at a later stage. I would suggest though the the current contact arrangements remain in place until there has been a positive change in behavior, including, but not limited to, your client not consuming any alcohol for a reasonable period if he will be in contact withe the children...'

The 'stopping drinking for good' will probably be viewed as unreasonable as you cannot monitor his behavior, but only as far as it affects the children...

ilovemydog, thanks. Your version does sound much more professional than mine

I just find it really hard because hes going to carry on being an unreliable p**s-artist until he does stop drinking for good. God knows why he's suddenly decided he wants to see the DCs more as he's not mentioned anything to me about it since the last time they had a sleepover with him a year ago.

He's up to something, I just wish I knew what. He always could be a devious sh*t when he wanted to be. Every time I try to get things calmed down and stable for the DCs, he comes along and starts playing games again and messes it all up again

Maybe you could mention that if there client showed willing to access treatment for his overuse of alcohol it would be a positive step and show commitment toward the children ??

Or worded in better manner

He obviously hasnt told them his is a piss artist

oldspotraver before I kicked him out he did go to an addiction counselling place for a while and also to alcoholics anonymus for a bit as I'd told him that he'd be out if he didn't. All it did was teach him how to hide it better though which is why we ended up splitting.

If I so much as hinted that he could see the kids more if he got treatment he'd go along jump through the hoops and say all the right things. But he'd still keep on getting p**sed whenever he feels like it.

A friend of mine has got an ex whose an idiot and I ranted at talked to her about this as I couldn't believe this solicitor would write such rubbish. She said that solicitors will write pretty much whatever their clients want even if it's complete bulls**t. So I shouldn't worry too much as they can ask for whatever they want but it doesn't mean they will get it.

That made me feel a bit better but I'm still really annoyed that that arse has got the front to demand more contact when he can't be trusted to turn up sober as it is!

provide a detailed diary listing the times he has and has not turned up for contact.

provide a detailed diary listing the times he has and has not turned up for contact.

Most solicitors are just expensive letter writers who have a vested interested in keeping hostility going as long as possible.

Anyone who uses them when there are any other alternatives needs their head examining.

nonsense lostdad

Try calling the Children's Legal Centre on 0845 345 4345 (website: www.childrenslegalcentre.com/). They offer free legal advice and will be able to tell you exactly where you stand. It's may also be worth contacting your local branch of Women's Aid as well as your local Social Services, although involving the latter can up the stakes somewhat and take things out of your control.

Good luck!

lol i agree with lostdad!

Anyone who charges you £50+ to write a letter is not on your side....period.

I don't know enough about solicitors to know if they're just milking it. £50 a letter sounds like a nice earner. I think I'm in the wrong job. My wages won't cover raising the DCs on my own and manage that kind of cost.

I've got a contact diary going back over the last year or so. He's missed about a quarter of the days he was supposed to turn up for! What a w*er Do you think a court would ignore that, or think it's as crap as I do? He usually only gives us a couple of hours notice that he's not coming as well.

OptimistS, thanks for the pointer to the Childrens Legal Centre. I'd never even heard of them before!

I think I'm doing quite well with the letter. I'm going to leave it for a few days then go back to it, take all the swearing out then send it out. Do I just send it to his solicitor, or do I copy it to him as well?

Sorry for all the questions!

Grr, the twunt couldn't even be bothered to turn up for contact on Saturday

Does anyone know if a court would regard him missing 25% of contact days as acceptable, or would they see it as him not showing a commitment to the kids?

IME the court would not see it as acceptable at all depending on his reasons given for missing the contact times he already had. However, also IME, even lame excuses are accepted first time round. That said, the courts are generally loath to significantly increase the quality of the contact time as opposed to the frequency when there are significant doubts as to whether the individual involved is likely to commit based on current performance. In other words, if he can't commit to the contact he has which is not overnight, the court won't automatically grant overnight stays, nor will they necessarily give more frequent contact. It's more likely they'll schedule contact based on the current frequency and see if he steps up to the mark. They will then review what has been happening. Assuming he's kept to all scheduled contact and its gone well,then it is likely it will be increased, then and only then (depending on circumstances) will they look at overnights etc. I think he's shooting himself in the foot here personally.

I wouldn't bother replying until he is actually going for a contact order. I would also inform SS of your concerns and ask them if they can help you with info/advice on contact centres.

If he tries to take you to Court you need to agree to CAFCASS mediation.

Courts work on common sense. I seriously doubt he would be allowed to increase contact when he has missed so much.

Highly unlikely you would get a contact centre. For some reason they alwasys come up on these threads but i know it takes ages to get a place around here and a court is unlikely to take away contact if you have allowed it so long.

I went to court without a solicitor, it is especially easy if you are up against a total idiot

Something to watch out for with solicitor letters - I think its 'without prejudice' they write at the top, means you cant present it in court as evidence.

My solicitor told me that if a client works against their solicitors advice they wont get legal aid. I was willing to report my xp to the legal aid people for being an idiot, dont know if that is any help to you.

Make sure you get a witness, a neighbour to come to the house when he doesn't turn up - just for the record. As your ex could turn around and say - oh she wouldn't let me see the dc.

If he is mad enough to ask for more contact when he doesn't even turn up just get yourslef a witness - otherwise it will be your word against his.

Write back

Dear solicitor,

Thank you for your letter of whatever date about Mr Ex husband having more contact with children.

I would like this very much as on all these dates Mr ex Husband didn't have contact with children as agreed. list dates for the last year

I would be very obliged if you could indeed enforce your client to keep to contact arrangments as this would ensure he had more contact.

thank you

nutter for an ex

I would reply as to ignore can be seen as difficult.

Has your ex ever been arrested for being drunk and disorderly?

Why does he drink? I would say that he is unhappy, not least as you're stopping contact.

and solicitor? Why dont you just talk to him and arrange something thats mutaually amicable? your kids wont thank you when they get older for stopping contact.

Besides, you will have to pay back Legal aid, so dont think you are getting anything for free.

KEEP THE SOLICITORS OUT. YOU'RE ONLY LINING THEIR POCKET AND IT WONT HELP THE SITUAION. I GUARANTEE IT WILL JUST MAKE IT WORSE... and I know you dont want that do you?

Mumofagun, thanks. I know my ex is great for coming up with excuses why he can't see the DCs this week. But he'll be slurring his words and rambling when he says it so I know it's the booze talking

My reply to his solicitors was "if/when your client can show he can reliably turn up for the contact he's already got, then we'll talk about increasing it". But I did put it more diplomatically than that I also included a contact diary that shows how many times he's cancelled over the last six months. It's nice to know that if worst does come to worst and I have to represent myself in court that a judge might see it the way that I do.

hobbgoblin, I've already responded to the letter I did think about just ignoring it but I thought it would be better to tackle it head on.

gigglinggoblin, I think you're right about the contact centre. Plus I know someone whose DD sees her dad in a contact centre and it sounds awful I don't want to put my kids through that unless there's no other option. I'll keep my eye out for the "without prejudice" bit. This letter didn't have that but I may be back for advice if the next one does...!

IvyKaty44, I'll think about what I can do about witnesses. So far it's just been him phoning a few hours before he's supposed to be picking up the DCs and saying "I'm not going to be able to make it as I'm ill" or some other rubbish. I did ask his solicitor to tell him that the DCs are very upset when he cancels contact (and they are) and that I want to see him make a commitment to being more reliable. I hope I've made the point to them.

sunshine13, he's never been arrested (as far as I know) but he has been in and out of hospital a few times to dry out. I do have some other evidence that can be shown in court if it comes to that, but I don't want to give that away here just in case he's tracked me down.

Why does he drink? He drinks because he's an alcoholic and has been for years. We split up because of his drinking so I'll thank you not to try to make it out to be my fault that he's a p**s-artist. I'm not even stopping contact - he's cancelling it or just doesn't turn up. All I'm saying is that I don't see that there's any point in him asking for more contact when he can't even be bothered to stay sober for long enough to do the contact he's already supposed to be doing.

And, it was his solicitor writing to me. I didn't even know he wasn't happy with the existing contact arrangements until I got that solicitor's letter. Unlike my feckless drunk of an ex I don't qualify for Legal Aid as I've got a job. But I barely earn enough to cover my and DCs living expenses, plus the debts that tw*t left me with, so I can't afford a solicitor. What's even more of a sick joke is that it's my taxes that are paying for his bloody solicitor!!!

au contraire! I was merely suggesting that it wouldnt matter if he was a hobo who decided to dress in a pink tutu - he is still entitled to see his child.

Sounds like you have a REAL beef with your ex.. Im glad you're on here venting and not doing it in front of your child.

So he's asked for more contact. Keep the solicitors & keep ranting (but keep it on here) and do what's right by your child and dont deny them their right to see their dad.

If the child grows up and decided FOR THEMSELF that their dad is an arse, then you wwill have the moral high ground and done the right thing..

Sunshine are we reading the same thread?
NutterForAnEx has at no point said that she is doing anything but try and maintain contact with her ex and her children. She even said at the suggestion of a contact centre she didn't want to put her dc's through that. The only thing she has said no to is overnight visits because he is unable t stay sober enough to look after the dc's.

She is doing the right thing she is making sure the children are available to have contact every Saturday with their father it is her ex that seems to have trouble turning up. It doesn't have to be about moral high ground it is about what is best for the children and agreeing to up the contact so theri father has more oppertunities in the week to let the children he wants to see more of down is acceptable is it?????

sunshine13, you're right that I do have a REAL beef with my ex. He drifts in and out of our kids' lives on a tide of booze. But I would have just as much of a beef with anyone who leaves my children in tears as much as he does. They don't understand why he chooses to get p**sed rather than to come and see them.

If you actually read what I wrote, I'm not denying him access to our DCs. He's supposed to see them every Saturday afternoon. So far this year he's let the kids down half a dozen times. That was all his choice and nothing to do with me. I want him to turn up regularly as it would be the best thing for the children.

What I am contesting is his request, through his solicitor, that he wants even more contact plus overnight stays. What's the point when he can't be arsed to regularly turn up for all the contact he's already got? All it will do is give him even more chances to disappoint the kids by not turning up when he said he would.

I'm not even saying that I would never consider increasing contact. But he'd have to pull his finger out and start acting like a reliable dad first, though. Is that so unreasonable?