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Is there something on internet explaining, reasoning with a mean/thick deadbeat why he should, morally, pay maintenance?

285 replies

LiffeyKidman · 16/01/2009 10:50

Just wondering?

My x is maggoty rich and doesn't contribute. He genuinely believes that he has no moral obligation to give me money towards the children because I left him, and therefore 'implicity undertook to pay for their upbringing'.

I can't argue or reason with that level of idiocy and denial, and I don't try anymore.

I am just wondering if there is anything on the internet, aimed at deadbeat fathers, to make them understand and face up to the fact that they are in the wrong not to contribute,,,

just wondering, because although for now I'm not persuing x for money, I will next year. (long story, legal issue).

OP posts:
StewieGriffinsMom · 22/01/2009 22:15

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glitterfairy · 22/01/2009 22:19

"I can't see counseling doing me any good (or help) so I am not even prepared to go there"

Sadly the case in many who are in great need of counseling and lack insight. Enough said really.

N1 you give fathers a bad name which is such a shame as there are plenty of good role models on this board as well and in an area where many mums here struggle to get by against huge odds I think you show that lack of insight every time you slag off your x and refuse to listen to another point of view.

TheNinkynork · 22/01/2009 22:38

N1, the words you are using say so much. You would NOT Be giving money to your ex. That would be ludicrous. Why would you do that? Why would anyone?

Can you really not see it as fulfilling your responsibility to your son?

Janos · 22/01/2009 22:53

I've rarely felt quite so wound up by a thread.

I feel there's no point ranting but I will say this:

N1 you are going to get what you deserve in life. No doubt about it.

N1 · 23/01/2009 02:01

Enough said then.... I can't really add much more.

TheStatueOfLiffey · 23/01/2009 11:46

Ni, just forget about money for a minute. If you never pay a penny to your son he'll be fine, because despite the karen matthews style picture you painted of your x, actually it turns out she has a new partner and they have one child. They are a new family, she's not a sponging slut.

You need counselling to help you see things more clearly. It's your perogative to think your x is a sponging evil slut, but she's busy getting on with her life, and meanwhile you're absolutely choking in bitterness and resentment and your own twisted form of logic.

You see your son, you don't pay for him and you're still bitter beyond belief and demonising your x.

Seek independent counselling, not from a separated fathers type of body, just counselling full stop.

TheStatueOfLiffey · 23/01/2009 11:48

N1, ps, although your thinking is far too distorted for you to ever see this, you are the sponger. Another man is co-bringing up your child. YOU are the sponger! Durr.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 23/01/2009 12:39

oh FGS why has everyone been so polite and reasonable to N1. He is obviously an abuser, his language and attitudes make that perfectly clear, he talks as though he hates his ex more than he loves his child and his first post contains a threat to his ex "when I get out of jail, it's pay back time and the money snatching ex is going to feel or get some of my anger (not sure how yet) but plenty of time to think in jail."

What form do you all think his anger will take? He needs a lot of time to think about it in jail. Don't you all find that repellent and frightening?

OP, no no website on earth will make a man with a sense of entitlement change his mind.

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/01/2009 12:44

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RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 23/01/2009 13:38

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glitterfairy · 23/01/2009 14:02

I am not sure we have been polite.

dittany · 23/01/2009 16:06

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N1 · 23/01/2009 18:36

I have no idea abo0ut what form I should let my anger out. Up till now I haven't had that problem. I will have a think when I cross the bridge.

What I find rather annoying is that some people are so very focused on insisting on getting money, there isn't any consideration given for anything else. The same reasons, bills have to be paid, rent....etc. Where did this desire to focus on money come from?

The value in a relationship shouldn't be measured with an amount of money. The value should be measured in what the absent parent means to the child.

Adding money, and in the case of the CSA, it's not limited to a fixed amount, it's a proportion of an absent parents entire income.

It's an agreed, that it took a mother and father to make the child. At the point of separation, someone did something wrong to cause the separation to happen. Secret family courts don't want to point a finger (most likely the "ignore the wrong" doo-gooder logic creeping in) so bad behaviour is not recognised. Someone caused a break up, should the person causing the separation be in a position to unfairly make demands?

If parents fall out of love and one has an affair and chooses to move out, in my mind, the responsibility falls on the person moving away to offer a contribution to the children. That would seem fair and right.

If a parent has an affair and chooses to move to the person they are having an affair with AND they take the children, I don't think the better behaving person should be forced to pay directly to the ex because they didn't "cross the line". The wrong is clear. I would go as far to say that the person moving out shouldn't take the children, unless it's agreed between the parents.

In the case of DV, there is a clear wrong. The person causing the violence should be removed, and they should be expected to pay. In some DV cases, I can imagine that the DV person might feel wrongful removal, however, violence is seen as a wrong.

If rules were applied which identify the wrong doer, then it's much clearer about who should be expected to pay and who should be asked to pay and who should choose to offer to pay. It would be easier to determine how maintenance should be given.

Maintenance shouldn't be limited to money,

If an absent parent is able to look after the children for 3 weekends out of 4, then I can't see why the resident parent can't work some of the weekends, to supplement their income, more so it they are the one who did the "wrong" to cause the separation.

Everyone wants their weekends, agreed, however, "crossing the line" should come at a cost.

Maintenance is to maintain the child, a resident parent can maintain the child if they can earn an income without the child needing that parent.

Sadly it seems that the resident parent (not all cases) wants to have their cake and eat it, then they want to demand the absent parents cake and take a bite out that as well, while shouting (with their mouth full) that the maintenance is for the child.

In cases where both parents agree that they were both wrong, it should, in theory, be an easier process to form an agreement between them about how to look after and maintain the children.

I can't fairly see why n absent parent should have to see a counsellor because they refuse to pay maintenance (I am talking about me here). Why should I be classed as bitter when it wasn't me who "crossed the line"? Then I am forced to reward the wrong doer with money (and nothing else is good enough) and allow her (a "her" in my case) to spend the money as she chooses? I didn't stop the ex leaving, but I should have stopped her taking my son. I just didn't know the law, and in my eyes, the court has failed my son. Ex who was clearly wrong and "crossed the line" is now in a position to show my son that being wrong and getting away with it is also classed as a "correct" and it's ok to do.

To make matters worse, the ex then tries to give my son to a step dad and cut me out my son's life....errr, I don't think so. What is the ex showing the child now (keep in mind that I don't think my son should have been taken in the first place) that if one parent does wrong, everything they demand is also right.

Then I have to spend £30 000 to £40 000 to get a court order to see my son. Another wrong in my eyes, Ex had legal aid, I had to pay to get to see my son who shouldn't have left the family home.

To the few people who are so fixated on demanding money (and not accepting anything less than 15% of the absent parents income in cash), who are quick to suggest that I see a counsellor, in the hope that I get brainwashed into paying money to an ex who I know won't spend it on my son. It's not going to happen.

2 wrongs don't make a right, and in the secret family courts, there are few wrongs because no one wants to look at the past, ignore the wrongs and live on. If you make another wrong, don't worry, it's in the past, we keep living on and ignoring the bad behaviour, in a hope that it might go away one day.

There is no expectation for people to be polite. I mentioned earlier that I have been slated for refusing to pay my ex before. Another time might not be nice, but it doesn't kill.

I fight against injustice. Fortunately family courts are being more open in April. Sadly adoptions might stay secret, forced adoption being my pet hate. The good thing is that any bad behaviour by one parent could potentially be exposed in the media if that parent wants to be grossly unreasonable.

I know the CSA have liability orders on me, A liability order restricts me but it won't make me pay. It does however make me more determined to not pay. My determination does come at a price, but Martin Luther king had a good saying (I am not a Luther fan generally) - One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.

I am trying to find a way to end this post because I can't see the majority agreeing with me or reaching a satisfactory compromise. Would it not be better to agree to disagree?

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 23/01/2009 18:47

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TheStatueOfLiffey · 23/01/2009 18:56

Dittany, I was the one who used the phrase 'sponging slut' but I meant to dress N1 down, pointing out that his x is not that phrase, despite his demonisation of hre. He hasn't come up with anything that would lead me to believe the child isn't much better off with its mother.
You're an absolute beacon of intelligent common sense on MN, again and again I think so reading your posts, and now I am sucking up to you! i WOULD hate you to think I was thick enough to believe N1's x was a 'ss'.

N1, you're the one obsessed with money. Your son's family are coping without your contribution. You're sponging from them. Get over it.

TheStatueOfLiffey · 23/01/2009 18:57

Yes RIMOD!! he's deliberately had 6 jobs in five years!!

Well, that really shows his x ey????

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 23/01/2009 19:02

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TheStatueOfLiffey · 23/01/2009 20:02

My x has the same mentality. Children are pay per view.

I was 'wrong' to leave so therefore it's all my fault. Everything. From.now.ON. But as bad as my x is, I think he's slightly less mad than N1, and I tell you it's not often that I read something and think, oh you're worse than my x!!! So in that respect I'm grateful to N1! He's shown me that unbelievably, things could be worse (a bit).

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/01/2009 20:11

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StewieGriffinsMom · 23/01/2009 20:13

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glitterfairy · 23/01/2009 20:28

N1 you still dont understand that you are not paying maintenance to your x you are paying it for your son.

You say that it takes two people to create a child - the only part of this extraordinary and illogical post with which I agree - but then choose to opt out of your responsibility to ensure your son is clothed and fed and has a roof over his head.

You ask "why should I be classed as bitter?" and then proceed to berate your x for making a choice which you didn't share and which you appear to hate her for whilst constantly saying that she was wrong and you were not that is bitter. Strangely that makes you appear errrrrm bitter!

I dont think anyone here suggested you see a counsellor in order to understand why you have a moral obligation to support your son both financially and emotionally, they suggested you see a counsellor because it is obvious that you are living a sad and bitter life focused on revenge and misconceived ideas about women and children.

N1 · 23/01/2009 20:40

"....it is obvious that you are living a sad and bitter life focused on revenge and misconceived ideas about women and children."

No, I argue against injustice.

TheStatueOfLiffey · 23/01/2009 20:41

Stevie, you aren't far off. It is a 'Narcissistic personality disorder'. N1 definitely has it.

I read this online a while ago, and it explains a lot... why 'these' men try to control people in their lives.

They have such a certain and complete sense of entitlement and superiority that they do not see that they are treating their partners or x like a disobedient dog.

They don't think "why should x agree with me, do what suits me?". They only get angry at what they see as the lack of obedience and loyalty they feel they're owed. Heaven knows why they feel it is owed to them.

mamas12 · 23/01/2009 21:56

Bloody hell this man is sad mad and really dangerous to get involved with. I've decided that to engage with him is just fuelling any fuckwit theories he has, his sentances don't even make sense, methinks he needs some kind of help, can the courts, solicitors or cafcass or someone order a psychiatric assessment on anyone displaying these thoughts and behaviour and actions. anyone out there dealt with this brickbat of a mindset in their xes?
'violence is seen as wrong' !

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 23/01/2009 22:10

I love it, he fights for justice.

So if a man leaves a woman for a younger model and doesn't pay maintenance but has lots of foreign holidays and nice cars, would it be OK for the woman to tell her children that "Daddy doesn't pay maintenance for you, he prefers to spend his money on expensive cars and holidays with his new wife that he left us for"?

Given that that's the truth, because you believe in truth as well?

You see, it would be a kind of warped justice, but most emotionally healthy people would see it as emotional abuse. And they are right, because where children are concerned, truth and justice (which are subjective anyway) are suspended in the interests of children's welfare. We could all tell our children a whole lot of unpalatable truths about our exes, if we were like N1. But we wouldn't, because we put their emotional health before our hurt. It's called being an adult and being a good parent.