Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Lone parents

Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

Original poster

Facing vindictive ex in court over residency on Thursday, any tips from people who have been through this??

42 replies

Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:21

Ex h wants 2 of our 4 children to live with him. I dont think the court will split the chidlren up and grant him this, however I am completly sure that he will use the opportunity to try and do me as much harm as possible.

Has anyone been through this? It is in germany, but assume it will be broadly the same as in UK. Will ex h get the chance to question me?

He has been throwing out suggestions for ages about what sort of things he is going to try and say. Some of them are easy to counter, eg that I am a drug addict! or am fiddling my taxes (both groundless)

Other than that, my mind's a blank. What reasons is he likely to put forward as grounds for splitting the chidlren up?

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 02/06/2008 22:23

Do you have legal representation? Does your ex, only as you want to know can your ex question you - i would think not if he has someone representing him.

controlfreakyagain · 02/06/2008 22:25

is this a first hearing or a final hearing? know nothing about german system but in uk there would be at least one directions hearing before any final decisions were masde.... you would both have to exchange and file statements as to what you said and there would often be a cafcass (welfare) report making recommendations to the court about what should happen..... do you have a lawyer? do you want / need a lawyer? you are entitled to know what his case is before court makes any such serious decision.... how long is hearing listed for? if it's short is almost certainly a directions not a fin/ al hearing..... let us know how it goes wonb't you? good luck!

Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:25

no, he can still question even if he has a lawyer - I was a witness in a case where he was tried for hitting me recently, and he questioned me himself.

As he is very keen on the sort of humiliating tellings off where he asks his victim a series of questions that forces them to confess whatever stupid thing they have done, I am sure he would like to do the same thing in court.

I have got a lawyer, hope he is aggressive and on the ball enough to stand up to ex. I think he is.

OP posts:
sleepycat · 02/06/2008 22:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

berolina · 02/06/2008 22:27

oh NN!

Don't quote me, but I think it all goes through the parties' lawyers here - so he won't be talking to you directly.

It's the boys he wants, isn't it? He might try something along those lines - male influence, blah blah. He might also try the Rabenmutter thing but I think courts are becoming more enlightened wrt that (even in Bayern ).

How is ds feeling now about saying he wants to be with you? Is he still worried?

It sounds like he could well make a bit of a performance of himself, which I know is cold comfort before the fact but you have a really strong case, you know.

Ring or email me if you want to talk.

How is the school situ? (maybe I should censor the word like we do on the German Corner )

controlfreakyagain · 02/06/2008 22:27

if you have a lawyer surely he should have explained what is going to happen etc.!

Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:28

thanks cf. We have both put in statements, his was sparse, but I gather he can produce more stuff in court.

We've also had the social services interviews, and I think a decision will be made on Thurs. Good point though, I will check with my lawyer. He often assumes I know things about Germany that I dont.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:29

Hello Bero! I will phone you as soon as I have a moment (prob after this thing is over).

Off to Beolingus to look up Rabenmutter..

OP posts:
Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:30

OK. I am sure he will try that, but it has a whopping big hole in it - if Im that uncaring, why does he want to leave the girls with me? Am hoping the lawyer will deal with that one.

OP posts:
berolina · 02/06/2008 22:31

oh it's that word people fling at WOHM to imply they are Bad Mothers. I used it once in a seminar to explain a linguistic point and a student in one of the front rows said in a very clear and sibilant whisper to his neighbour, nodding at me, 'wie sie' . I was too baff to say anything at the time, but FFS.

berolina · 02/06/2008 22:32

x posts!

ivykaty44 · 02/06/2008 22:33

In the UK you are not allowed to talk in court - unless you are asked to do so, and you can get into trouble for speaking out of turn.

If he has no legal/barrister there to represent him then he can ask you questions (if in the uk) but they have to be appropriate questions and the judge can stop someone representing themselves asking the wrong type of questions (will also pi** the judge of if this keeps happening)

If he has someone representing him then speaks out of turn it will not look good on him.

Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:41

what a nerve. If I ever hear the word Rabenmutter in my hearing there will be sharp words

ivy, I was gobsmacked I appeared as a witness in a case where I had been hit and punched, and the judge calmly asked my ex (the accused) if he wanted to question his victim (me) in court! You bet he did. Fortunately, I managed to turn his questions around on that occasion.

OP posts:
controlfreakyagain · 02/06/2008 22:43

was he convicted of assaultibg you? must be relevant if so, hardly a good role model for his dss is he?

ivykaty44 · 02/06/2008 22:45

They have plastic beakers for the water..... I suppose not being able to speakcan lead to water in beakers being thrown - thus not glass that can actually damage.

It sounds awful to be questioned by the accused when you are the victim - why did his legal person not ask you the questions?

Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 22:55

ivy - both ex and his lawyer were asked if they wanted to question me. I think ex was also not prepared for it, but this time he will be prepared. I think it is probably just a typical german way of doing things, letting everyone have their say.

cf - ex is a walking bad role model for his chidlren, I am sorry to say. Normally, he wouldnt stand a chance. I am just worried he might having something up his sleeve - though I cant think what.
On paper, he stands so little chance of getting the boys, but he seems to think he has a good chance, which makes me nervous.

Maybe he is just going to throw as much dirt as he can, and hope some of it sticks.

OP posts:
madamez · 02/06/2008 23:01

I don't know the german legal system either, but it occurs to me that what your XP is trying to do is upset and frighten you. He may well know he won't win in court, but the fact that he can bring a court case will make you suffer, and that's probably what he really wants: to cause you distress. That's more likely than him actually having any new evidence or lies that will gain him custody.

ivykaty44 · 02/06/2008 23:04

It is so hard not to worry - but do try to get yourself some "calm"

I think as woman we often think about defending ourselves. Try to take on the attack role instead, this would not be expected by your ex and it may sway things.

Of course if he is allowed to question you - you will be allowed to question him.

Why does he want the boys? Girls need a male role figure aswell. Are you sexist only wanting the boys?

Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 23:07

that is probably a part of it.
It is difficult to know what is going on in his head at any time.

I think he asked his embassy for help abducting the chidlren, and they advised him to go the court route. What he will do afterwards, is a whole different problem.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 23:10

sexist is a very good point, ivy. Ex comes from a non-european country, and it is sadly all too easy to stir up prejudice against him, based on stereotypes.

I really dont want to attack him. Its so undignified for one thing, both sitting in court slagging each other off.
In the assault case, the judge looked as if he had only just graduated from university!

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 02/06/2008 23:18

You have to attack and forget dignified and rembember your dc - yes it is sad but not attacking is what he is banking on and he is a bully and will keep bullying you until you let go and attack him.

I do understand why you dont want to attack, and why you feel it is your dignaty - but this isn't attacking physicaly or aggressivly it is being firm and standing up for yourself - take him by suprise and go for it.

You dont need to slag him off - just literaly attack him so he messes up. It is not about a slanging match.

Ask if his culture values boys over girls and why then does he only want the boys?

Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 23:26

that is the sort of argument that would go down a treat here .

I will have to play it by ear, see how its going, and if he hasnt p*d the judge off enough, I could ask some questions guaranteed to set off one of his rants.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nighbynight · 02/06/2008 23:30

am off to bed now, but thank you all for sharing my reflections.

I have just finished preparing a work of art for ds2's school. Honestly, I think the teacher will recognise my style by now!

OP posts:
SSSandy2 · 03/06/2008 14:09

After you both had interviews with social services, did they send you a copy of their recommendation to the court? Whatever that was it will carry a lot of weight. Is it in your favour?

Original poster
Nighbynight · 03/06/2008 22:07

Hi sandy!
yes, I saw it today and it is in our favour. I have a watertight case I hope - am just trying to think of everything really. I dont want to arrive overconfident at the court, and get caught out by something I havent considered.
I even went and had a haircut today!

OP posts: