Post court analysis

[timetofight]

I was taken to court for breach of a child arrangement order. I’m the mother and the court order was taken out by the paternal grandparents against me. I was obviously against it. They took my son somewhere that triggered his allergies over a year ago and I told them not to take him back but then a month later they took him back. What followed that day was completely controlled by them. When I told them to take him somewhere else they bad mouthed me to the children, removed them and then the children had to stay for another 7 hours with them. When the children returned home their grandparents denied saying anything. I showed my eldest the email (which I know was a huge mistake) and he confirmed they lied.

The children decided not to engage with them for a while and that turned into not wanting to see them.

There Was a section 7 report and they said they wanted minimum contact and the report sided with the children. They are 12 and 14.

Fast forward to court and I agreed to not do a fact finding hearing as they said the time was best spent working out what access should happen. I did not have legal representation as I couldn’t afford it. I took a friend.

Their barrister cross examined the Cafcass Officer and basically completely tore it apart and the court ruled against them. They said that the kids needed more access than they were asking for. It was still reduced from what it was.

Im not happy, the kids aren’t happy. Their barrister said and it was accepted that I influenced the kids with what they said to the Cafcass officer. I absolutely didn’t and the Cafcass offer said the same. They said similar things but I did not discuss it with them as I was petrified I was going to be accused of coaching and yet I still was.

My question is (and I’m not putting this in legal as I’ve exhausted all avenues in that under another name) what could I have done differently and how would you feel about the verdict? Just looking for some solidarity because I feel that I’ve let the kids down.

It sounds like all of the adults in these kid's life are more bothered about fighting each other than the kids having a solid support network.

Are you angry at the grandparents for things to do with your relationship with their son?

@JustAskingThisQ I am their solid support network. Outside of this we have a very stable life. Not a lot of money but they are my priority. Would you have just ignored what happened? Genuinely interested. Not a dig.

I have never liked them because their son was an addict and they chose to protect him over the children and I saw the incident where they brought the kids account into disrepute as a way of protecting themselves over the children.

My advice to you is to take a more philosophical approach to all of this. Your children have two grandparents who want to spend time with them. You should be encouraging this. The more people that know and love your children, the better. I only have a snapshot from your post but I get the feeling that you dislike the grandparents (probably because they are linked to the dad) and that you are either intentionally or, more likely, unintentionally influencing the children. I think that if you were genuinely neutral about them spending time with their grandparents, they would probably still want to see them. You need to step back and look at the bigger picture. Why do you think that you have failed the children because they have to see their grandparents from time to time? You seem to be creating a problem that isn't there. It's very sad for the children.

@WomanFromTheNorth I feel that I have failed them because they asked for reduced contact directly to Cafcass and it was up to me to get it for them and I didn’t. I am interested to know what you think about them lying about what they said to the children. I’m finding that the courts just do not care. I’m concerned the children will stop telling me their concerns because they know that nothing can be done.

I think you're forgetting how easy it is to love your kids to their detriment. They have an addict son. I can tell you that if any of my kids become an addict, I will not always make the best, safest or most ethical choices for them because of my irrational and almost unconditional love for them. I'd likely enable them through fear, shame, exhaustion and plain naivety.

I'd probably be fairly good working with addicts who aren't my loved ones. But it's a whole different kettle of fish when that's your baby, and your baby's babies. You're human.

You can't be their everything. It's even unusual for courts to even give great grandparents access. I suspect their court feels their involvement is necessary, not just nice.

At their ages, they can just refuse to go, not a lot can be done!

@JustAskingThisQ Yes their father died.

I don’t have any personal experience but I think the family courts are very flawed.

I don’t see what else you could have done. You are required to make the children available and the children can choose whether or not to go with their grandparents.

it’s a horrible situation to be in. So sorry.

I suspect they asked for reduced contact because they know how you feel about all of this. Seeing their grandparents sometimes will be good for them in the long term. Lots of teens get bored going to their grandparents but they still do it. I suspect their reason for not wanting to see them is you. All of this is in-fighting is far more damaging to them than having to see their grandparents from time to time. I'm sorry, I'm going to be honest here - you are the problem. I hope your user name isn't linked to this case.

@JustAskingThisQ The court also mentioned our different cultures and how the children needed to see the paternal sides culture. As someone who has always tried to be the best parent I can be (and it can be exhausting) I found the whole process extremely demoralising.

Well that's really important. But I also know of cases where a parent was widowed and obviously traumatised. Her response to this trauma was to cut off his family. The guy died in an accident by the way and everything was perfectly fine beforehand. She just shut down and wanted to move on.

Grandparents fought to see the grandchild but the judge ultimately said that they have no rights and they do urge the mother to rethink but also understand people grieve differently and this is what she might have to do to be a healthy parent to the child which is most important. These were all very middle classed people.

So even in that case, when nobody had done anything wrong, they never said the grandparents have to see the child so I find it surprising that in your case, they've ruled that it's definitely in the kid's interests.

I also think that you've been covering their children into not upsetting you so they've rejected their grandparents.

Coercing*

When you say triggered their allergy may I ask what allergy?

@JustAskingThisQ And how do you think I did that? Cafcass are trained to see these things and they took their side. They spoke to the grandparents are well and saw what I saw.

@Theunamedcat Its a pollen allergy that triggers asthma so he can’t breathe.

Because they took their side as you say and are trained to spot when these things are occurring. Grandparents have no legal rights to access children so authorities have to really believe it's in the children's best interests to override the wishes of their parents to instruct it occurs.

I knew it was hay-fever.

@WomanFromTheNorth so tell me how you would have dealt with that day as I think asking them to remove my son from that place was a perfectly reasonable request.

@JustAskingThisQ cafcass came out against the grandparents and the court overruled them.

@JustAskingThisQ I see hayfever as swollen eyes and runny noses not being unable to breathe.

A someone with allergy related asthma triggered by pollen, there isn't anywhere. The trick is to use a good antihistamine (i use fexofenadine 180mg), and proper preventative (the brown pump likely isn't strong enough) and have your blue pump and any other as required medication with you at all times. You might want to consider an epipen..my sister in law has one for similar allergies.

No if you have asthma, any allergy can result in what is essentially as asthma attack. With my hay-fever, I can't breathe, streaming eyes and nose, fever, even vomiting, itchy ears, hives, swollen lips.

@JustAskingThisQ but don’t you think it’s just better to avoid going somewhere like that then have to deal with EpiPens? My point is that if he’s been proven he is allergic don’t take him back.

Does anyone think that the outcome could have been different if I had legal representation? Their barrister was expensive and good.