everytime he doesnt get his own way i get the "i'll cut your money" crap - arrrrrrggggg

[isheisnthe]

Situation is this - since we parted he is supposed to have the kids every weekend from after school until 6pm on saturday - since I moved in january, he's done this once, and consistantly drops off early - once not turning up to pick them up at all!

This weekend I decided enough was enough, so when I got his - Id like to drop them off at 12, 1, 2, 3, 4 I said no, the agreement is 6.

Like this (via email)

*FOR THE LAST TIME I WILL BE HERE AT 6. I have offered you every other weekend if this arrangement doesnt suit you. I am picking someone up from the airport at 415 so theres no way I will be here at 5.

Agreement was 6 so stop trying to shirk our sons as at the earliest opportunity every bloody week. read it - collection from school and drop back off saturday afternoon at 6pm - thats what you agreed to so tough*

I got this back !!!!

"Ok as per agreement you owe me £10 for there hair cuts, £10 for pants and socks and approx £150 for days out the week i had them so ill deduct that from the agreed money i pay all in for the boys so up to you if you want to be anal???? :-0 just calm down and stop being such an arse as you will get the bare minimum from me even the looking after the boys in hols so get flexible or keep it down the line as you say its the boys who will miss out...something we oth dont want so relax your large ego and chill out!!!"

please tell me if I am being unreasonable? I just sent back see you at 6 with a smiley face - as I think he is trying to provike an agrument - what shall I do - this happens EVERY weekend, and I have offered an alternative incase having the boys cramps his style to much

why would you owe him money for their haircuts and days out?

am confused, does he think the money he gives you for their upkeep is to cover EVERYTHING?!?

stop offering alternatives, its not fair on the boys, they need to see their dad on a regular basis and its about them - he is being completely unreasonable and not considering them in all this

what a mess, at this rate you'll be back at the lawyers office

controlling ishe, trying to control you again. if it was me i'd send back well we don't need you money so leave us alone. (but then i'm a rot headed stubborn arse at times! lol)

no yanbu, days out in the week - FGS it's up to him if he wants to do that itsn't it - and if he wants to do play them games do as I do with XH when he gets like that....

XH - that will be £50 for fixing your laptop.
me - that will be £50 per day for looking after your son, this does not include cleaning the house which will be extra, nor does it include treats and days out soon changes his tune! lol.

hot*

Yes - he does seem to think its for everything - it doesnt even cover nursery fees!

Was tempted to say shove the private agreement up your arse and I'll go through the CSA but knowing how crap they are I just dont have the energy

is it legalised? would that give you more weight to it?

write down a list of everything you have to spend money on, including nursery fees

show him and tell him if he doesn't behave himself you WILL go to CSA and take him for more for the boys

he doesn't need to know you can't be arsed

it was all done through the solicitors when we seperated, he had the choice between every weekend for one night or every other weekend for two nights - he chose. I accepted the ammount of money (agreed through the solicitors) although I KNOW through the CSA i would get a lot more, I also know he is a scheming under hand arsehole who if I do go through the CSA will do what ever he can to not pay anything.

In short I dont even want them to go there, they dont want to go and he doesnt seem to want them to either, its all about how he looks to others and ticking the box, "washed shirts - tick, watched football - tick, been to the gym - tick, seen the boys - tick" I guess you get the picture, he feels it something he HAS to do - rather than wants to, at least thats the impression I get.

Your message to him was confrontational and aggressive. Yes you were angry, and i sympathise with the infuriating behaviour from your ex, but your message was only going to wind him up and he was going to retaliate. All you had to say was something like:

I am unavailable to be here prior to 6pm on [date] as I have an arrangement elsewhere on this date. Please do not return the boys before 6pm as they may become distressed and upset if I am not hear to meet them.

I would also like to remind you that the agreement/court order is from [day/time] to [day/time] each week. This is what you wanted and we agreed to in the best interest of the boys. Pleae note, the court order details the minimum amount of time you should see the boys, not the maximum.

Keep all messages short, too the point, and non confrontational. Don't let him get to you. Come here and shout and let off steam all you like by all means!

You have every right to blow off steam and be angry at him over these issues, just try and avoid showing him that he is getting to you, because then you give him the control coz he will threaten to cut the money and you will appear to back down because of that...

As far as money, the CSA can be quite quick in simply straight forward cases where the other party is co-operative. Don't rule them out completely if he keeps threatening to stop the money. If he keeps on like this point out that the CSA is an option if he would prefer to go that route to please contact the CSA to make an official calculation if he feels he really is paying too much then he would be better off doing this surely...

I would also suggest you point him at the CSA website if he continues to threaten to deduct money, and if he does deduct money get onto the CSA right away. It might take a while to get sorted, but it will be backdated.

What he does in his own time with the boys is not covered by his payments, and the CSA would make a deduction to cover this time anyhow when they calculate. Also pants and socks might be considered deductable if you asked him to get them and he gave them to you. If they are for the boys to have at his house then no, they wouldn't be deductable as would be considered part of his costs. And if you didn't ask him to get them then you can say not necessary as you have plenty at home already...

Any money he pays for the maintenance of his children doesn't necessarily include nursery costs. It is to cover housing, food, clothes and essentials. Nursery places aren't a necessity in reality. However the CSA calculation is meant to give the children a lifestyle they could have expected if the parents had stayed together. So if your combined income would have supported this then it should cover some of the cost. If you don't use the CSA then you must agree between you what is covered by teh payments. If you disagree with anything he considered deductable, inform him so in writing (but keep it calm )

Also with nursery fees, you might get help towards this on Child Tax Credit. Are you on WTC? If you're not then do what you have to to up your hours to 16 per week when you will probably qualify. If you don't work then make sure you are getting the full entitlement of free nursery places for your child. If you can't afford them then you might have to look at cutting back on that.

Best wishes
Gilly

GB - that was the last part of an email coversation that had been going on for over two days about how he wanted to drop the boys off early - its the same coversation that takes place every week and quite frankly I am bored of it!

I know that his maintenance isnt to cover nursery - lets put it this way shall we - he gives me 425 a month and earns over 70k a year - so lets get in to perspective. I do not need more than 425 hence I haven't gone for any more as I dont want to be greedy - however, when he starts talking about deducting money for taking the children out of the amount he gives me and for buying them some pants from tesco that are for his house (after keeping most of the clothes that I send with them and only giving me the DIRTY ones back!) I feel that I have every right to get a little pissed off

I have been avoiding my ex- for this very reason. I know I will blow with him and say things that will make me feel better but will escalate an already dire situation.

The very cool and composed response may just take the wind out of his sails, as would a gentle reminder what the money for his children covers - I'd cut and paste the CSA website. So, I am going to come looking for you, gillybean2, the very next time I want to hang and quarter my ex !

Anyhow, isheisnthe, just so you know - I feel for you. It is the pits when you have an ex- (male or female) playing games and sod the consequences and the kids. The additional stress is SO unnecessary.

Interestingly, my youngest's therapist even said losing it with your ex- wasn't that bad a thing, if you didn't do it in front of the kids.

i havent lost it with him - when I got that response I basically ignored him - after typing back LOADS of nassty stuff, I sat there before I pressed send and thought "you know what, he WANTS this reaction, just ignore him" which I did, and I didnt reply.

Boys came back at around 545 but I didnt go to the door, got a friend to answer it, as I know he enjoys the confrontation side of things, he enjoys the fact that he still has the power to press my buttons, but only on issues to do with the boys now, so I literally took myself away from the situation and felt much better for it. I will wait for next month to see if he messes with the money, and if he does that will be the last chance, I will go through the CSA and stuff him....

I undertand you are at the end of your tether. But do try and stay calm, don't agree to have them back early unless it is exceptional circumstances, and keep repeating the same thing each week which is something along the lines of:

Any changes to our parenting time needs to be agreed at least 2 weeks in advance and in writing.

I would like to remind you that the agreement/court order is from [day/time] to [day/time] each week. This is what you wanted and we agreed to in the best interest of the boys.

Please note, the court order details the minimum amount of time you should see the boys, not the maximum. Therefore the boys should be returned at 6pm this week as we agreed. If you are unable to meet the obligations you agreed to as a parent then I suggest you put forward an amended parenting arrangement which we can discuss.

Until you do this and stick to it he will keep trying his luck. Don't listen to his excuses, tell him how it is and then stick to it. Don't be at home earlier, go out if you have to, even if it's just for a walk round the block. If he turns up early with them say you were just about to pop out and he'll have to take them down the park/library till you get back.

Also dont' think of it as being gready. The money is for your children and they would have been benefiting from it had you been together still. It is your responsibility to ensure that you get the money the children are entitled too. Please don't feel guilty or gready in asking for and getting it. Swimming, music lessons, sports clubs, scouts etc all cost money. And if you really can't find things to spend the money on then invest it for the children's future. Think of your children and not your ex or if other people will think you are gready.

Hugs
Gilly

It sounds like puppy-training but I suspect, if you can carry it off, that gillybean2 is right. Saying that, the idea of my boys sat outside my house would make me so sad that I wouldn't do it. I have taken to arranging a neutral drop-off and envisage this will be the norm until things improve between the ex- and me.

The money your children are entitled to is the minimum and gb2 is spot on: think - extra-curricular, cinema, saving for holidays, school trips, washing the dirty clothes sent home with them and even longer-term, savings for driving lessons and university fees.

Well done for taking a step back. It is hard being the adult when there is someone else acting appallingly. Enjoy your evening with the boys.

we went to see the spiderwick chronicals - christ 24 quid to get in the cinema and then more money for sweets etc - but we had a nice time - which is the main thing I guess. I totally agree about thinking that the boys sat outside the house thinking YOU have forgotten them is something I can't do either.

GB - you talk a lot of sense, sadly I must be quite sensible as I have done most of what you have suggested already - bar getting the solicitor to write to him....

No, not sad, just a caring and mature grown-up . My ex-'s behaviour always serves to remind me why he is an ex- .

Glad to hear the cinema was fun - if somewhat expensive.

Keep going. And as my rl friends point out, "if it doesn't kill you ...." and a good MN mantra "This too will pass."

and the next thing he does to drive me mad - no school shoes for DS1 this morning - and a refusal from him to bring them round tonight - arrrrrrrrrrgggggggg

He is being very obstructive and obtuse. It is easy to forget something but fgs, any normal parent would be falling over themselves to get their child's kit back to them and inconvenience them as little as possible.

I think this is where the problem lies - you are being reasonable and constructive and he isn't. Is he prepared to be, long-term? Is he that good with the kids that you can over look these short-comings or is it time to redraft the agreement and do it with a mediator, the courts or the CSA?

You do have some choices - I always find that makes me feel better, even when I don't like what I am choosing between .

Horrible situation, poor you.
Is that normal for Exes to ask for money back/take it off their weekly contribution? You're doing very well remaining so calm and reasonable I think, good luck.

I think he just likes being difficult really. Its horrid, as before all this happened I thought he was a good man, certainly good with my sd's if not so good with our boys, but I know he loves them. Its like he knows the only way to get a reaction out of me now is via the children.

Its also coming up to a year (10th may) to when I found out about his fling and the fall out from that - its certainly making me feel melancholy so maybe its making him feel that way too. Not that I want him back, I am perfectly happy with my life and with the boys, but this life isnt the one that I thought I'd live, I thought once I had the boys we would be together come what may, and we aren't. Maybe it irks him that I was soooooo upset and now appear calm, rational and unconcerned by him and his latest hookup etc? I dunno, I really dont

That's all ringing bells - a year here, too and I'm still sane (well, most of the time ). I really thought my ex- was a decent human-being and finding out he can be such a git has been hard.

Sorry you are feeling sad. Can you do something nice so you have something good to plan, to look forward to, to treasure?

I live in the hope that with time, the problems we have now will fade and we will all become civilised - pipe-dream, probably, but better to be optimistic.

I do have some nice stuff planned - going out with a group of friends this weekend (this is the weekend that he went out this time last year and didnt come home - also my birthday weekend - nice touch huh!) and new man is taking me out during the week.

Still, just feels funny right now, i wonder sometimes did i fight enough iyswim? I'm sure I did, maybe I need to read my thread from when all this kicked off to give myself a reminder!

Good luck 1066

Ouch for last year.

Happy Birthday for this - have fun.

And, don't forget that the fundamental thing about relationships is both people have to work at them. If your ex- wouldn't/couldn't, there is only so much you could have done.

Onward and upward .

exactly - thanks

Gilly - `Please note, the court order details the minimum amount of time you should see the boys, not the maximum. '

I get the feeling that a lot of RPs don't understand this is the case - or don't care.

My ex has stuck to this absolutely totally rigidly - leading me to the conclusion that the only reason I see my son is because she is forced to by a court, rather than wanting our son to benefit from two loving parents.

lostdad - I would love love love it if exp wanted to see them, rather than just ticking the box iyswim, I can't understand why he is always trying to get out of it or drop off early.

Xmas was a prime example, as it was our first xmas apart I thought he may be sad not to see the boys, and as much as I wanted them all day I thought it would be selfish of me. So i suggested he pick them up at lunch (before or after, just incase he had an invite anywhere) and have them over night and bring back boxing day any time - you guessed it - No, I am too busy.

WTF - too busy to see your boys at Christmas - there was me thinking that christmas was about children, but apparently its about getting pissed with the latest flame and not seeing your kids until 3 days afterwards