Allegation of parental alienation

[Orchidlie22]

Hello, does anyone of any experience of this and how it can be proved with evidence?

Evidence would be any messages, calls, etc that one parent is disparaging the other and discouraging the children of having a relationship with their parent.

And if there is no evidence?

The children are part of the evidence - if the children aren’t complaining then I wouldn’t be sure there’s any parental alienation going on.

Where are you in this? Are you the accused parent, or the resident parent?

I don't agree that if dc are nt complaining there's no problem. They might not have the words or maturity to understand it's wrong.

Ensure that you have told all the school doctor etc that the other parent also has parental responsibility so should be included in correspondence and decision making and invited to anything important,
Then it's on them and the school.
You don't need to say nice things about the other parent if it's not true, just be neutral and don't burden your child with any worries. If that's all you've been doing then you'll be fine.

@Apolitia I'm the resident parent and the accused!

I meant complaining about the parent, not about being alienated. Even if they’re quite small, if they are refusing to see the other parent for no apparent reason it might be a sign something is going on.

@Orchidlie22 is the other parent accusing you of alienating your children?

@YourGladSquid the NRP

Yes my ex husband accused me, when he was actually the one doing it. But it was part of a much bigger case, so this was just a small part of it.
Are the children happy to go to their fathers? Also how old are they?
I had lots of evidence and 3rd person evidence of this (among other stuff).
It was investigated and there was no substance to his claim, but it was found he was trying to damage the children's relationship with me, which was one of the things that went against him.
Is he taking you to court and claiming parental alienation? In my experience it's normally part of a much bigger sinario, well it certainly was for me.

My ex husband did it to me, genuinely brain washed dd and emotionally coerced her into a weird codependency with him. Nobody helped me, nobody gave a shit so I wouldn't worry.

What is the setup you have and why is he saying this?

@teenmaw that is sad. How are things now?

My eldest who is 14 does not see his Dad and is his own wish and experiences that make him not want to. That's recent this year. Dad cut all extra financial help since he doesn't see him anymore .

Youngest who is 9 goes as court ordered and more when Dad requests and I can accommodate.

@TickingKey46 yes he's taking me to court accusing me of PA!

I feel I'm the one being abused.

It's more dangerous for women. Abusive men successfully argue PA all of the time.

My ex assaulted my daughter and then accused me of PA (which was untrue). The social workers seemingly believed him because we got an equal punishment.

The courts are similar from what I understand.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/12/parental-alienation-and-the-unregulated-experts-shattering-childrens-lives

I think the courts tend to ignore a lot of aligations unless they are significant or part of a much bigger case. What's his intentions? Is he accusing you as part of a case to see more of his child?

The courts come from a place of "looking at both parents, parenting". So even if one parent accuses the other of something both patents will have their parenting looked at. So in effect fault can be found on both sides, or neither sides. But for a simple case of child access, i dont think they take much notice. It's when there are significant safeguarding concerns when more professionals are involved that they make the effort to look into these things more. Well that's just my experience.

@TickingKey46 yes I think he wants more of our younger child so he won't have the same view as his older brother!

Interesting though as our older son doesn't wish to see his dad due to his own lived with experiences! But obviously his Dad thinks I've caused their fallout!

Please note false allegations of Parental Alienation just like other forms of Domestic Abuse do happen and both men and women use false allegations BUT like real Domestic abuse real parental alienation DOES exist - https://alienated.ie/http-alienated-ie-solutions-for-parental-alienation-professionals-and-parents-webinar-6/

Maybe view https://www.pasg.info/

These websites appear to operated by those who profit from peddling PA.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/parental-alienation-a-dangerous-and-harmful-concept/

So also the Irish Government and courts are peddling PA ? How can you peddle real child abuse? Womensaid do some good work but ignore alienated duaghters mothers and grandmothers so what are they peddling ? https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/5c5c5-parental-alienation/
Also in Womensaid Ireland report thIn Women’s Aid Direct Services experience most women with children, particularly from age 7/8+, report attempts by fathers to ‘turn the kids against her’. Women have reported to us throughout the years that the abuser often tells children lies about their mothers; denigrates her to the children, undermines her authority and manipulates the children against her. For example, by using children to spy on the mother and report to him or by encouraging them to join in the verbal or even physical abuse of the mother. Children end up blaming her for his abusive behaviour and align themselves with the father against her. Women feel deeply upset by the weaponisation of their children, and while these tactics are by no means always successful many women can be really undermined. In some cases, women told us that the relationship with their children has broken down completely and has not resumed even when the children are adults. In other cases women felt they had to cut off contact with one or more of their older children because their father had ‘poisoned them’ so much that their own mental health was being seriously compromised by contact with their children. 20This common emotional abusive tactic is often commonly employed as an integral part of an abuser’s overall coercive control pattern and has long been recognised by domestic violence services and described in Domestic Violence literature.37 In our experience this form of abuse against mothers, and children, is usually ignored in the Family Courts.- admit that some mothers (as do fathers) chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.womensaid.ie/app/uploads/2023/07/submission_on_parental_alienation_june_2022.pdf

What can be helpful is document and record actual facts. At 14 the court will listen but will also consider potential PA.

Document incidents noted by your children that makes them uncomfortable.

Log the court ordered access and note when child went/didn't reason why.

This can help because quite often without dates, times etc it will become a he said she said. The logging of any texts etc is also helpful.

I've been accused of this.

It's just something they say to make others pity them while they continue to put in fuck all effort.

My oldest 2 are adults now and the other 2 are teens, they have all had their own phones and ability to contact each other without my involvement for years, and dickhead ex still doesn't bother his arse. He now says "phones work both ways" instead.

So anyone who says they are alienated is lying?
How would all victims of domestic abuse feel if they were also accused of lying?
Sadly domestic abuse is real and so are false allegations of it real too
it is the exact same as Parental alienation
We need to fight all abuse including false allegations of it

Parental Alienation - In the eyes of the child survivors

An example definition parental alienation given by the Irish Government and "may be described, very generally as:
a process through which a child becomes estranged from a parent as a result of the psychological manipulation of the other parent, or;
situations where one parent is wrongfully influencing their child or children against the other parent." - https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/5c5c5-parental-alienation/

This can mean that the children lie and are manipulated because of emotional coercion. It takes a clinical psychologist to interpret whether the child is giving their genuine voice or not.

Maybe not in this instance but in the times it has been proven the children have been manipulated to be in fear and even hate their non abusive loving parent.

@Pol1961

I am probably a bit too emotional about this and my previous post did not explain the nuance.

I believe that abusive parents commit PA. Goodness knows that my ex does what he can to harm my relationship with my daughter while crying PA from me.

The problem is that PA is extremely frequently used as an attack by abusive men against protective mothers. Because the courts are messed up and biased towards men, these allegations are frequently believed.

So I believe that PA can happen, but in practice false allegations of PA are very frequently used as another tool of abuse, with women being placed in a vulnerable position.