Can I say shes not ready for overnight stays?

[taken4granted]

My ex p has just threatened to withhold any maintenance payments unless his requests for reasonable access are granted - I offered saturdays on an alternate basis and one afternoon /evening per week - because of work commitments he wont do the during the week thing ( sounds too much like actually being a parent - you know homework etc etc.) so he says he wants to have her overnight every alt sat 10am - 10am sunday. Thing is we split up begining of march so everything is still very raw - dd not sleeping in her bed and wont go to sleep unless Im in bed with her - shes fighting boys at school (teachers think shes taking her anger out ) nad everytime she sees him she has a night terror which he never could cope with. I think its far too soon for him to have her overnight - Ive asked her if she would like to stay with daddy and she says no (7 yrold) although Im not too sure how much of that is she is saying what I want to hear IYKIM. All advice welcome please - although will say as he did f*** all with her in the 7 yrs we were together I hate the fact that I have to let him see her at all because he takes her bowling swimming cinema etc - spends money on her like its going out of fashion and was allways tighter than a ducks backside! I cant afford treats at all - am in the process of applying for beneifts - the mortgage costs 3 x my monthly salary leet alone all the other expenses - he earns about £6000 per month

It is a child's right to have both parents in their life. My dh's children had that right taken away from them by their mother and the British system (social workers, teachers, doctors etc.). And the children are worse off for it. Dh is an excellent father and was never allowed to be one to two of his children. I am sorry that youi find me rude, but it is a subject that is close to my heart and I am not going to shut up about it.

SofiaAmes, I have a very good friend going through almost exactly the same situation as the OP. I know everyones situation is slightly different and we all have our opinions bla, bla, bla....but I have never ever on mumsnet felt so disgusted by anyones attitude before. You are WAY off the mark and I hope you haven't upset the OP too much. If you had the mis-fortune to meet my friend who is in a very low and raw emotional state and you made those comments to her, she would be likely to punch you in the face.

Sofia, you are coming accross as being very aggressive and unreasonable. It may be a subject very close to your heart, and your stepchildren may be worse off for not having a relationship with their father, but that's no reason to take it out on the op. However, as suwoo says, everyone's situation is different and the op has explained that her daughter is not reacting well to the break up, so surely the worst thing to do would be to force her dd to stay with her father when she is not ready for it.

She's not talking about never letting her see him again, just building up to overnight stays, which sounds quite reasonable really.

suwoo I think what you have said above has summarised my feelings towards Sofia Ames perfectly - yes I think her attitude is extremely negative and not helpful to either myself or other posters on this forum. I thought that this forum is for support and not critisism of anyones parenting skills therefore Maybe Sofia Ames you are on the wrong thread entirely by definition you are not a lone parent. For the record My daughters best interests are and have always been my no 1 priority and I will do everything I can to ensure she has a loving relationship with her father even if i do hate him entirely, I vent my frustrations here and never in front of her. Thank god other mumsnetters are not like her and the ther U. S. netters were very understanding and supportive. No one is perfect we all have our faults Im just trying to do the best job I can. SUWOO - let your friend know shes not the only one is a raw and emotional state and I really feel for her and give her a hug from me (smile)

Taken4granted - you sound like a wonderful mum.

I hope the coming weeks get a little easier for you all.

Email if you like.

x

Oh, you already did

SofiaAmes I hadn't seen your other post. I also speak from experience that if I forced my ds1 to overnight with his father when he didn't want to he would not be the happy little boy he is now. Of course children should have access to both parents if IT'S IN THE CHILD'S BEST INTEREST. You cannot force children to spend overnights when it is going to have a detrimental affect on their immediate psychological and physical well-being. I'm lucky that my soon to be ex agreed we should not force the children to do that. When he first moved out they didn't spend overnights with him for at least 6 months and now the youngest still isn't happy.

Not every situation is the same. I am sorry that your DH's children are missing out. However please do not attack other people for feeling raw and emotional and wanting to protect their own children from the reality of daddy moving out. Time is a great healer and I'm sure that both taken4granted's child and my own will come to be happy with the situation of "Mom's House/Dad's House". Oh and here in Colorado it's parental responsibilities and that means the Child comes first.

What gillybean said.

so sorry to hear of your situation. It is very hard. But for what it is worth, I think you are being perfectly reasonably. I don't think 7 would be considered 'too young' for overnight stays but certainly when everything is so raw and difficult, a gradual build up is best.

the tricky thing is making her dad understand that it is not because you are trying to stop him seeing her, but that you all have to do what you can to make this as easy as possible for the child, who after all, never asked for any of this and can't possibly have the emotional capacity to deal with it.

He may be floundering around in his own red mist and getting the wrong end of the stick. I hope he can calm down in time.

but you seem to have the right instincts and want to do the best for your daughter. Good luck.

Cheers everyone (not Sofia ) I will be mailing my solicitor today reitterating that I dont feel dd is ready for an overnight stay just yet and that a regular conact visit with him for the immediate future is probably better for her initially. Yes I am still very raw and he seems to be setting a fast and furious pace which I cant cope with emotionally. Im also going to drs and see if I can get some help form them as well - sleep deprivation, financial worries etc arent doing me much good ( ive lost over a stone in 6 weeks)

There is no link between money and contact. It is about the child's best interests.

If it is legitimate to deny contact if a non resident parent refuses to pay maintenance, then surely by the same token it is legitimate for them to have it if they do?

I sometimes think the law in the UK is not actually that helpful in insisting on such a clear separation between paying maintenance and contact with a child; if (usually) the dad isn't paying then I can totally understand how a mother is completely hacked off and less likely to be supportive of contact.

In australia, its actually recognised as part of your parental responsibility that you pay for the upkeep of your children and the courts take a dim view of parents who refuse/fail.

But to threaten to stop paying just because you don't like what your ex is saying about contact is completely out of order and shows that the threatening parent is thinking NOTHING about the children but only (usually) his needs/wants.

True, Spero.

Then again, from a non resident parent's point of view, it wouldn't be difficult to think `If she wants me to have nothing to do with our son, why does she want money?'

Personally, I will pay for my son whatever happens, but do you think I resent being seen as a walking wallet by my ex?

It's not a gender thing either...did you know that non--resident parent mothers are LESS likely to pay maintenance than non-resident parent fathers?

Yes i agree, thats why I think a strict separation of contact/money is not always helpful because i can see it cuts both ways.

I didn't know the statistic that non resident mothers are less likely to pay maintenance, but could this be linked to the fact that they are likely to be earning less than a man?

I dunno. All i know for sure is that a lot of people seem very childish and spiteful in the way they behave and it doesn't bode well for their children as they grow.

I think taken4granted should be justifiably proud of herself that she's not falling into that pattern of 'that bastard, that's the last he'll see of the children'.

Thanks for the above - lostdad its nice to know from a male perspective as well. I dont see him as a walking wallet although I do think that as he earns an absolute packet then he should provide a reasonable standard of lifestyle for his daughter - after all its not her fault he decided he wasnt happy anymore. I even went round to his new place tonight with a birthday card and present with dd for an hour to show him that dd's feelings are more important than mine ( I agreed it with him first mind)- was going to bake him a cake but then did think better of it the temptation to put a few immodium in it would have been too great!.Surprisingly enough my dd would have to sleep on a futon when she stays but apart fro that the place is very nice indeed - hardly going to be the pits though when he earns £120k per yr is it.

I also sent him another e mial explaining my reasoning behind not wanting immediate overnight stays but did underline that I am mnore than happy for her to stay overnight in a few months once she is more settled at home and school and is back to being more herself and used to the idea bless her. I feel so bad that she has to go through all this its so unfair but all I can do is try and ensure that she is happy and loved by BOTH her parents - if she is happy then I will be. I dont want her to feel forced into doing something she isnt comfortable with.

I can't help feel that something in the world is truely fucked up when a child of 7 doesn't want to go and stay overnight with her father.

FGS - this is her parent - how have relationships between fathers and children deteriorated to the point where they don't want to visit them.

By this age my children had happily stayed at their grandparents house and their Aunts house without us being with them and were Dh and I to separate they would be beyond desperate to spend time with him.

Unfortunately not all kids have the sort of good relationships your dh & your family have with your children. My exs parents & family have never really shown an interest in my kids, & my parents arent much better. Ex himself has sadly never been a proper involved parent & taken an interest in his lovely girls.

At the moment they happily go with him & have stayed overnight with him twice. The level of care (or lack of) during those visits makes me cross, but if I refuse to let him take them im withholding access & that would be wrong in the eyes of the law.

It seems I cant win whatever I do. One day (probably pretty soon) the novelty will wear off & they will see things for what they are, until then im forced to trust this person to take care of my children so he can show them off to his new sl@pper until he gets bored with them.

Maybe it's because my two's father doesn't do anything "fun" with the other than take them swimming. The extent of ds1's "fun" on Sunday - wait for it - washing window he's 6 ffs. So I can totally understand why a playdate with his bestmate is much more fun.

How have relationships between fathers and their children deteriorated to the point that the fathers don't even want to raise them?

Good question, littlewoman.

My ex wasn't interested when there was crying, countless night-waking, nappies etc. Once we had a walking, talking, happy toddler, then he decided he would be a parent. Great - I am really glad that DS has a dad who wants to be so involved in his life now. I know lots of children do not have that. But it does irritate me slightly that he wasn't interested when it was more hard work and less obvious rewards. The thing is, as I was the one who did the hard work for 18 months, I know that actually, there really was a reward. There is nothing more wonderful than holding a calm, content, happy, giglling or sleeping baby knowing that you made them that way.

I do think it sad that children do not necessarily want to spend as much time with their fathers as we might like.

But in difficult circumstances, when a father (and this would apply the other way round too) has left the family home, it is understandable that they want to stay with the parent who is still there. We can only encourage them to rebuild a relationship with the other parent. We can't force them. And it really shouldn't come to that anyway.

Good question, littlewoman.

My ex wasn't interested when there was crying, countless night-waking, nappies etc. Once we had a walking, talking, happy toddler, then he decided he would be a parent. Great - I am really glad that DS has a dad who wants to be so involved in his life now. I know lots of children do not have that. But it does irritate me slightly that he wasn't interested when it was more hard work and less obvious rewards. The thing is, as I was the one who did the hard work for 18 months, I know that actually, there really was a reward. There is nothing more wonderful than holding a calm, content, happy, giglling or sleeping baby knowing that you made them that way.

I do think it sad that children do not necessarily want to spend as much time with their fathers as we might like.

But in difficult circumstances, when a father (and this would apply the other way round too) has left the family home, it is understandable that they want to stay with the parent who is still there. We can only encourage them to rebuild a relationship with the other parent. We can't force them. And it really shouldn't come to that anyway.

Sorry

Hey guess what My exp didnt do a thing with my dd when she was a baby and has only shown any interest in her the last 6 months. - He never even changed a nappy even when I broke my wrist when she was 6 wks old. So I can totally understand why she's not too keen on spending overnights with him. I always used to say to him you only ever get back what you put in and unfortunately its only now that he is realising this fact however having said that I was made to feel kike a naigging wife when I tried to encourage them to spend time with each other - Even when I went to sainsburys for 1 hr on my own dd would screm until I got back and all he did was watch sky sports - now thats great parenting. She didnt even benefit from the walking talking toddler stage and any interest it was only once she had turned 7 and could have more of an "adult" converstaion that he actually spent time with her. Yes it was a shame he didnt foster that relationship sooner but theres nothing he can do to rewind the clock. Unfortunately he is a very selfish person - when we went round for his Birthday he didnt even offer her a drink of water or a biscuit or indeed give her a cuddle - the sad thingis my dd knows I love her because I discipline her but also give her lots of kisses and cuddles - but with daddy his version of showing love is taking her out for an activity - He doesnt tell her he loves her - kiss her or cuddle her - she admits this herself when I asked her how she knew we both loved her (ages ago. Now that is sad the fact that her own dad cant tell her how much she means to him and kiss her and cuddle her - thing is these things which mean to much to kids dont cost anything and mean the world to them. In fact I was criticised as being supermum and never giving him a chance all becasue I kiss her cuddle her and tell her how much I love her. Thank God thats still free!

Just need to remember that there are good and pad parents, male and female.

Personally I relish the opportunity to have `normal parenting time' with my son - not just fun stuff. As I am allowed a few hours a week though...it's understandable that I want to see him enjoying himself though, isn't it?

Before my ex left with him, I did all the normal, boring stuff that my ex did. Everything. Including staying up all night with him while he cried so my ex could sleep, before working full time the next day. I'm not trying to paint myself as some kind of saint - just saying I was always as much a parent as my ex was, before she stopped me.

The low point? Being told it `wasn't appropriate' that I change his nappy by a member of staff at the contact centre I was allowed to see him at for the first time in over 4 months. He was 8 months old.

I would leap at the chance to be a `normal dad' - but all the time my situation remains it is, my ex can say she does everything for my son.

The best thing you can do is to keep talking to your ex. Be it face to face or mediation - keep talking.

What a sad miserable world we live in! Seems the nasty irresponsible men can get away with things and so can the bitchy women...and us 'decent' ones get tarred with the same brush and get slagged off by the new partners who don't always have a clue!...in my case OW thinks I'm a psycho bitch because my exh wants her to believe that and side with him!..have asked her to meet me to make up her own mind, but surprise surprise...NO REPLY!

My exh left for the OW when my children were 2 and 6 months...he was verbally and physically abusive to me in front of them which caused my eldest to have lots of psychological problems...separation anxiety from myself and her little friends (she would scream and get very distressed when anyone left her...I couldn't even go out of the room!), bedwetting, night terrors, very tearful and emotional, wetting at school etc.... I have never stopped my exh from seeing them but have asked him to work at their pace re access. When he is in a good mood and I am in favour he agrees...when he's p'd off he causes trouble, threatens to take me back to Court, has never believed a word I say re the above as he has not witnessed any of this (no one knows why the problems happen when they return home, but it's emotionally, physically and mentally draining for us...he gets the easy bits!). They do not have any problems going to him and I do not doubt his love or being able to care for them....but the problems recur when he decides to spring things on them that they cannot cope with! He is a complete ass! I even made a short video of her having a night terror to prove I do NOT lie...but guess what?! He told me I was a nasty cow and he was going to report me to the Authorities for cruelty! I can't win!

In nearly 4 years, it has taken me a lot of hard work (including visits to a child psychiatrist) getting my dd's to a point where they are secure and happy... the abuse has stopped from him in front of them and they have only started staying overnight (alternate saturdays) with him in the last few months. I tried a two night stay but problems recurred so it is back to one night stay only....they are obviously not ready yet and I am adamant that things should work at their pace to prevent long term damage. My exh absolutely hates this and often says I am stopping him from seeing them??!!! Why can he not see the bigger picture, believe that I do not lie to him and am only trying to do what I believe is best for the children?...be that right or wrong.

Lostdad...'keep talking' is great advice but easier said than done! I have approached both him and her on several occasions about getting together and talking things through as I do not want the children to re-experience the emotional problems they were having....but neither will talk!

Taken4granted....I think you know what is best for your child and that you should do what you feel is right for your circumstances. There will always be someone who agrees or disagrees with what you are doing!....listen to your instincts x

lostdad, thank you for posting. It's nice to hear from a dad who does want to be involved. I know it's not easy when you desperately want to be a 'real' parent but are not allowed.