Can I say shes not ready for overnight stays?

[taken4granted]

My ex p has just threatened to withhold any maintenance payments unless his requests for reasonable access are granted - I offered saturdays on an alternate basis and one afternoon /evening per week - because of work commitments he wont do the during the week thing ( sounds too much like actually being a parent - you know homework etc etc.) so he says he wants to have her overnight every alt sat 10am - 10am sunday. Thing is we split up begining of march so everything is still very raw - dd not sleeping in her bed and wont go to sleep unless Im in bed with her - shes fighting boys at school (teachers think shes taking her anger out ) nad everytime she sees him she has a night terror which he never could cope with. I think its far too soon for him to have her overnight - Ive asked her if she would like to stay with daddy and she says no (7 yrold) although Im not too sure how much of that is she is saying what I want to hear IYKIM. All advice welcome please - although will say as he did f*** all with her in the 7 yrs we were together I hate the fact that I have to let him see her at all because he takes her bowling swimming cinema etc - spends money on her like its going out of fashion and was allways tighter than a ducks backside! I cant afford treats at all - am in the process of applying for beneifts - the mortgage costs 3 x my monthly salary leet alone all the other expenses - he earns about £6000 per month

A father needs to provide, not threaten, there is some weird twatty state at the moment that men can get away with saying that.

Tell him, its nothing to do with the relationshp between you and him but you need to support your offsprings

I know it is hard to see someone who showed no interest in their child suddenly want to be involved. It is especially hard when they get to do the fun stuff and leave you struggling and actually being a parent.

I think what you offered sounds reasonable for now. If things go well then there would be no reason she couldn't stay over night but it is early days and best to take things one step at a time.

Do you have a solicitor? I'm not sure how access works in the UK.

I don't think he is allowed to withhold maintenance. It is a separate issue to contact.

He's her father. He should have equal rights to her. How dare you keep a 7 year old from spending time/overnight whatever from her father. I saw what my dh's ex did to their two children and now he has two completely messed up teenage children. Because he was never allowed to participate in their upbringing. Dads do things differently from moms - that doesn't make them worse parents...just different. It is bad parenting to put your dislike for him in front of your child's need for two parents.

Thats a name i have missed

Yes but SofiaAmes do you think you should truly force a child to stay with a parent when they don't want too? Genuine question as I'm separated and am doing everything to ensure that my two boys spend overnights with their father. However, due to many changes, the youngest does not want to stay - so he comes home. He still spends time with his father but sleeps with me - is that so very very wrong? Surely both parents need to put the child first and foremost in any breakup.

Sofia, I think that was a bit harsh. No-one is suggesting a child be withheld and taken4 said she's offered him time in the week which he can't do. If this is still new to all of them, and the DD has said she doesn't want to stay overnight yet, then that needs to be considered.

But I do think you should get 'proper' advice, taken4granted.

Totally agree UnderRated . The breakup was last month. Everyone needs time to adjust to a totally new and very weird situation.

Tbanks - didnt think anyone would be awake!! - yes I have a solicitor and will say the same to her - Im not saying she cant stay overnight forever Id just rather wait till t hings settle down a bit more say 6 months so we can all get used to the idea -f seperate homes etc - plus as he initally agreed to doing and afterschool thing once a fortnight - dod one and is now saying due to his work commitments he cant do this on a regular basis he level of commitment to her is very low - he recognises that he doesnt want to let her down as his justification as to not doing the school night thing but Im really dubious how long the alt sats will last as well he loves his tx sport and golf and now the weather is improving he wont like having her around and can see say in 6 months the alt sats will start to become a hinderence to his life and I will deal with the fall out as well. Plus of course I get to be the big bad mummy making her doo her homework every night and disciplining her whilst he never has done properly in the past I will get on to my solicior monday - thing is even with legal aid I cant really afford to keep contacting her either so have to ry and deal with him direct as much as poss which is very very difficult as Im still very raw from the split

taken4granted you are not alone. It is a horrible thing to deal with. It will be tough to start with you'll great support from people on here. I don't know if the book I read here is available in the UK, but we used one called Mom's House, Dad's House and it had a Parenting Plan in there. Try and draw one up if you can, stipulate holidays, days with Dad, how you deal with discpline and contact with each. Emails really work by the way as it keeps things unpersonal. You can always CAT me or if you don't have that post here and I'll shoot you my email.

Yes, it will be very very difficult. I am sorry to say that, 2 yrs down the line, it is no easier for us than it was when it first happened. Worse actually, but that's another thread.

I really think you are doing the right thing. If he is really that committed, would you allow every Saturday, if he agreed?

Sofia Ames - sorry to say this - but I DAre do what I flippin well like - I actually have MY daughters best interest at heart - as in I actually gave birth to her and raised her practically on my own anyway - the only real thing he did in parenting was pay the bills - so I think I know my daughter a little bit better than you - I appreciate what you are saying about messing up her life ( Actually my mum and dad divorced when I was 2 and I never saw my dad Im not messed up but I also believe its important for her to see her dad and have a relationship) - As i said Im not denying him access I just wanted to see if anyone else thought it was a bit too soon for the overnight stayes thats all. Sorry for being a bit harsh but hey you pinged over a shitty message critising me as a parent so I think I have the right to reply.

Another one (for kids) is Fred Stays with Me but may be too American and too young.

I'm also CATable if you need more moral support.

Make sure you take care of yourself in all of this - it is easy to get caught up in being the parent and forget about making time for yourself.

Do you have support in RL?

Thanks Underrated - I dont have Cat sorry whatever that is and whats RL Im still new to all this sorry - its 5 am here ive been up for 2 hrs and not coping very well not sleeping etc I think I might have to see about some sleeping tabs from dr as it doiesnt help to keep a clear head if i dont get any sleep everything just seems 50 x worse Im so worried he will force me to sell house - I cant afford a mortgage/rent and so will end up homeless and then he will say he wants her permenantly. Everyone keeps telling me I need time for me as well - but the only thing that keeps me going at the mo is my dd I couldnt cope if I lost her too

I know, I was the same - your DD will be ok. But she needs you to be ok too.

Lack of sleep is horrendous and really does make things much much harder. I hope you can find something to help soon. Your mind races and it can feel impossible to work out what to do. So try not to make any big decisions yet.

CAT is Contact another talker. But you can email me if you like: busy mamama @ gmail. com No gaps.

RL is real life

And here's mine alisonsmits at gmail dot com. We'll support you through this. I'm still struggling too.

You have a lot of different issues in the one message:

As a parent you often have to encourage your child to do things they may say they don't want to do - eat their vegetables, wash their hair, tidy their room, see their dad...

Hard as it is, You must encourage your child in seeing her father just as you would with any of the other things she might refuse to do but which you as a parent have a responsibility to ensure happens as part of your proper care for your child.

I would say your daughter sounds terribly confused by the situation. More time with her father may be the solution so she can see he is still a real part of her life and that she is important to him. At the moment she doesn't know what is going on. It is very hard to see straight when this is all new to you too i appreciate, but you have to try and step back from your own feelings and look at what is best for your daughter.

If he wants overnights suggest a gradual increase. He should really see her weekly, so suggest every saturday and insist he have that afternoon/evening time. This is not what is about convienient for him, he must make changes in his life too to do what is right for his daughter. If you can't come to an agreement with you then use mediation. Have you explained to him about your daughters distress, not wishing to sleep alone, night terrors etc. He needs this information to be able to think abou what is best for her in making these decisions.

It might be that your daughter is worried you are going to leave her too. Having more time with her dad will help her see that he hasn't left her life and maybe she'll be able to handle things more.

Maintence must be paid regardless of the contact arrangements, they are not meant to be related (though the current system only discourages contact by linking contact time to amount paid and is in serious need of an overhaul imo)

If you are going on benefits the maintenace issue will be irrelevant more than likely. If you are on IS you will only be allowed to keep £20 os whatever he pays.

Also your financial concerns re the mortgage etc need sorting out. You say you can't afford to pay it, yet you don't want to move and don't think you could afford anywhere else. It is very hard to deal with things like this when you are in the middle of it all, but you must get some advice and seriously look at your options. Go and see your CAB to see what they can offer you in terms of advice.

Do not begrudge your daughter the time and money her dad is now spending on her. He clearly feels guilty and doesn't know what else to do and wants her to have fun with him. If you can't afford to do these things try and be pleased that she gets to do them at all. Would you rather she sat around doing nothing but watching tv and being miserable with him?

Dad's parenting time is very limited so of course he will be doing the fun things and leaving the rest to you. Increase this parenting time and make it clear you want him to be an actively involved and equal parent and not a fun time only parent. And then go about ensuring this happens. Don't moan he doesn't do homework or telling off etc and then limit the time he spends being a parent so he will never be able to be an equal parent. At the moment he is pretty much relegated to being the equivalent of an aunt or grandparent who sees the child only occassionally and spoils them rotten when they do. If you want him to be a real parent then let him be. Sort out that extra time. Your daughter really needs it and from the sounds of it you need some time and space to sort yourself out too.

Increase the time to every weekend, add an afternoon/evening, two if you can. Agree that if everything goes well and he shows he can stick to this arrangement that in 3 months time overnights will start. Show willing and you will fare much better in court should he take it to that stage.

Take care of yourself, things will get better with time, but it will be a lot of time. List out all the issues and then put a plan together on how you are going to tackle each one (house, money, parenting plan etc). It might help you focus more clearly.

Stay strong
Gilly

Thanks underated and alipiggie - I will mail you both. Gilly bean 2 you have answered a lot of posts and are always very sensible even if the advice you give isnt what everyone wants to hear - you are a lovely person and no doubt a great friend to have. i understand a lot of what you say in terms of contact with dd - she is afraid Ill leave her too Im sure of it I have suggested he sees her more during the week but because of his work he will not budge and insists on weekends only. Whilst I aprreciate that he needs to see her regularly I also want in his definition quality bonding time with my dd as well so would also like to have a saturday with her where she can see her friends and be herself not feel the stress of being ferried between mum and dad. Friday nights might be a possibility - I might suggest it to him most people leave work early Friday dont they and she could have a late night as well - but not sundays as its school in the morning and homework needs to be done. I have explained her emotional state to him but he thinks she is fine and I am lying (wish I was it aint fun going to bed at 8pm every night!) I was going to suggest to my solicitor that we attend mediation so that seems like it could be a good route. I might even be genreous today - its his birthday tomorrow and he left his card from dd here last week (on puropose which really cheesed me off)now I have his new address I might pop round later and post it t hrough the letter box - if hes in he can see her - doubt it though the sun is out and he will be golfing as he always did. If you are still on line what do you think everyone - good idea or not?

Thanks for your kind words, I'm glad you have found what i said helpful.

As far as taking the card round there I personally don't think that is a good idea. If he left it at yours on purpose, as you say he did, then there must be a reason for him doing that. Maybe having it at home would be a painful reminder that his daughter is apart from him on a special day like this.

How about sending him a text saying you realise it's short notice but if he wanted to see her for a couple of hours today you could bring her round or he can pop by and take her out. Don't mention it to your daughter until he confirms. And don't be upset if he says no, he might have other plans or may have already arranged something else to distract himself from it today.

Turning up on his doorstep will be confusing for dd if dad isn't there or can't see her. Might make her feel even more rejected. And he might become quite defensive too if he feels you've put him on the spot. You're already feeling like he's rejected the card, would be far worse if he rejected your offer simply because it came out of the blue. If he turned up on your doorstep and said can i have dd now you'd probably not be very happy that you had to drop everything and accomodate him and that you and dd were put on the spot.

So yes, the idea is good, and you should offer it, but send a text suggesting it, don't just turn up.

Gilly

cheers Gilly - had a rethink anyway - similar to reasons but did think better of popping over as I dont think hed be too receptive and it would break daughters heart if he wasnt very nice. So I wont be popping over after all she doesnt even know he left the card here as I hid it as soon as I found it as I didnt want to hurt her feelings. I dont think however he left it there because it was a painfull reminder in fact he admitted he left it but his excusewas it wasnt addressed to him - (it had been opened and had a great big pink fairy on the front with Happy Birthday daddy slapped all over the front) I think he left it because he knows I bought it for her to write in. Its funny actually he's behaving like Im the one who has done the dirty - he was the one who walked out 48hrs after e mailing me to say it was lal over. So tomorrow Ill be in touch with solicitor about a few things including access - Im sticking to the alternate saturdays for now until she gets used to the idea of seeing him on a regular basis for a few months at least and then Ill ask her again would she like a sleepover at daddys and see what she says. I can see that he needs to spend some time with her and dont want to deny their relationship but also feel that routine is best for any kid and we are still only starting to establish this routine - I dont want to confuse her again plus she has her sats coming up next month so I dont want to put any other stress in her life.

Have you been through the CSA?

If they get involved you may be more likely to get £££?

They were good for me although am not so sure they have been for others on here.

It is so very very hard, but I agree with GillyBean.

H announced that he didn't love me and was moving out nearly a month ago. Refused to consider Relate or any chance of sorting it out.
He moved out yesterday having been arranging himself a house etc.
We have 2 boys, 5yo and 2yo.

We have discussed contact and he initially wanted every other weekend plus one night/day of the alternate weekend.
I said that wasn't acceptable as I would only see them 1 day in 4 of the weekends.
He was unhappy about this but accepted it.

He then suggested that he has them one evening a week and drops at school/childcare the next morning.
TBH I am skeptical about him maintaining this, as he has always worked away alot and has alot of evening committments. AND it hurts like hell that he is prepared to change this for the boys, but was never prepared to change it for me.
BUT, I can't say no as he is their parent aswell. TBH while in some ways I want him not to keep his promises, I know that isn't the right thing for the boys. And because of that I will do everything possible to facilitate them seeing him.

So we sat down one night last week and put dates in the diary to the end of May, arranged the midweek night and which weekend day/night.
Again - he wanted them for a whole weekend every other weekend. I don't think this would be good for the 2yo, so said a day/night every weekend.
This could well, and probably will, change to every other weekend as they get older and more settled (especially the 2yo who has only really started to form a relationship with him in the last 6mo or so). The mid-week night will also help with this as they will still be seeing him every week.

Money - if he is earning £6k a month (net or gross?) then you should get a reasonable amount of maintenance. Is it true that she will only get £20 is she is on IS?? If that is that case then claiming IS is insane as you would be looking at about £900pm from £6k net or £550om from £6k gross.
Then there is maintenance for yourself, depending on your circumstances.
You REALLY need to get the financial side sorted.
My solicitor explained to me that while you start with the premise of a 50/50 split, you then need to consider the needs of each party, and the needs of the parent with residence are much higher - so if there is enough money for everyone then maybe 50/50, but if there isn't then the non-resident parent gets more.
He may need to support the mortgage.

I really feel for you (and myself!), I hope that you have got supportive friends and family nearby.

You clearly do not have your daughter's best interests at heart and I'm clearly not going to stop you from repeating the abuse paterns that your parents visited on you. Luckily, in my country your behavior is against the law and fathers actually have rights.

SofiaAmes I think you must have posted in response to the wrong post. Your response makes no sense at all to the op and is both rude and unhelpful imo.

You don't say what country you are in. But I would add that fathers (and mothers) here have responsibilities as parents not rights. Children have rights.

Well said Gillybean.

Sofia is in the US. Where I am. My experiences seem to be very different to hers.

Taken4 - this is all very hard. You are doing the right thing by trying to foster a relationship between your DD and her father. I think you all have to see how it goes. What works now is not necessarily what will work next month or in 6 months time. Take it slowly and adjust things as an when needed.