6 yrs old DD wants dad to have equal time. Any advice?

[an17]

My DD 6yrs old 'lives with' me and 'spends time' every other weekend with dad. ExH was abusive, practically a manipulative psychopath and our child arrangement was set up by the courts, proceedings started by him claiming I had abducted her when I fled to refuge with her.

This was 3 yrs back. He has over these years told her that he needs equal time as mummy and mummy doesn't let her spend time with daddy, both untrue. If he moved closer to us, the courts have said he could have extra night.

Now DD has been crying that she wants Dad to have equal time or more time and she misses him a lot. She will spend a lot of time talking to him on the phone.

I did try a few extra nights for her at his last year but she quickly changed her mind as daddy was screaming at her. He has a terrible temper.

He has promised to buy her a dog which would shift things massively in his favour. I don't want to have a dog 😫

It's very difficult as I don't want to see her cry but also don't want her to be manipulated by her dad. I am so conflicted. Would anyone have any advice.

Thank you.

Stick to the court order.

Explain that mummy and daddy agreed the time together with the courts and it can’t be changed at the moment.

You tell her that the judge looked into everything and he or she decided what you have now is the best thing for her. That it isn't up to Mummy or Daddy but up to the judge.

You need age appropriate truth and when she repeats your ex lies you need to again raise the truth. You can do this by encouraging her to have critical thinking through open questions such as

"Oh well it isn't up to Mummy how much you see Daddy the judge decided what was best, why do you thinking Daddy is saying it's up to me?"

If you haven't read "How to talk so kids will listen, listen so kids will talk" please do it covers the importance of critical thinking and how to encourage it.

It may also be that your DD wants to believe in the fairytale that Daddy is lovely.

Yup, stick to the court order. She may be crying because that's what he's training her to do, basically. Deep down part of her needs you to keep the boundaries and be the protective parent.

My DD (oldest DC) at that age used to say she wanted me to give Daddy another chance, and she wanted to go and live with Daddy full time.

She's now 17 and stopped staying with her dad at all three years ago.

I think its one of those times when you need to be the adult and make the decision based on facts that a 6yr old doesnt and cant understand even if it does upset her "im sorry DD but it was a judge that decided how many nights you can stay with daddy so its staying the way it is"

shes 6. What she thinks she wants and what she needs aren’t the same. Also she won’t be anywhere near developed enough to understand how her father is manipulating her with his comments and behaviour. I think don’t worry about things like promises of dogs. That might impress her now but when she’s older she’ll see that for what it was. The fact he has to do that to get her to want to spend time with him is very telling in and of itself. I wouldn’t take her comments personally. Stay strong for her because you know what’s best for her.

I think explain the court process to her in simple language. “Mummy and daddy went to a place called court. In court a person called a judge decided who you should live with and how much time you should spend with daddy. The judge decided it was best you live with mummy and visit daddy x nights per month. The judge decided this because mummy always looked after you from when you were a baby and mummy know best how to look after you. It is important that you see daddy and spend time with him, but your main home is with mummy where mummy can keep you safe and happy”.

Thank you all of you! I suddenly felt such a surge of relief. I was thinking of giving in seeing her cry so much today. But had this weird feeling about it.

@RandomMess thank you for that book reco. I will read. She does want to believe that her dad is a good person and is always comparing him with me. It's exhausting.

@JanglyBeads DD also wants me to live with her dad. Apparently she has been praying for it 🙄 It is the most delicate dance I have to do trying to explain to her why I left in the first place without revealing to her that he is a scheming monster.

Does she need to speak to him on the phone so much? Presume he's ringing your phone so don't Answer it. It's just another way of him getting into your headspace and it's your time with DD not his.

@Whowhatwherewhenwhynow Thank you! That is such a well articulated response for a child. I might use it verbatim.

I wonder if it's emotions or just general lack of energy on my part that I can't think and respond that critically to her. I worry a lot about whether she would hold it against me if she cant see dad more.

That is a solid sensible response! Also, what on earth is wrong with me 🙄

Also age appropriate truth as to why you aren't with him and don't want to be.

"Daddy hurt mummy and the police and judge said that was wrong. I don't want to live with someone who who hurt me so much"

There's nothing wrong with you. It's not an easy situation, there's lots of things you need to take into account including her Dad's manipulative behaviour. It's always easier to see the answer when you have no emotional stake in the situation. Plus I expect you spent years being gaslit and told by him you were wrong, you can years out and still impacted by the doubts and second guessing of yourself abuse can cause.

Take mummy and daddy out of it. Explain that the judge ordered this. You cannot do anything to change it. Repeat endlessly. Hiding the truth about abuse is not a good plan.

She's 6. In a few years there's a very good chance she'll find out for herself. Then you will both be totally fucked.

When she repeats some bullshit from her dad. Ask her if she thinks it's true? Does it sound like something you'd do? Teach her to think critically not just accept everything her Dad says.

It took 9 years of court for my kids to get away from their Dad. Don't be us.

Totally agree with this too. It is important for her to know why you both split. She can have more information about it as she grows but this explanation for a 6 year old is good. Hard for her to explain why things happened if she doesn’t know this but if info.

Yes to this

I suspect it's only this approach that will put a stop to his manipulation of your dd

She's 6, she has no idea what's best for her.

You can validate her feelings 'I'm sorry you're feeling sad' 'this must feel confusing for you?' Whilst absolutely not agreeing with her or giving her abusive father more time.

I would crack down on the phone calls as well, it sounds like he's getting in your dds head and she needs less time with him.

Do not allow him to let your dd place him on a pedestal.. Not in her best interests whatsoever..

I ended up telling ds straight you KNOW what your dad is like he is not the nice daddy he is telling you he is what do you remember from when he lived with us (mommy bleeding dd thrown into a wall etc) even now as a teenager he can still be convinced that daddy is wonderful then when he is home its all different he remembers

Thank you all for your responses. It's so helpful to get other perspectives. I have definitely given him a lot of freeway which is probably the cause of DD putting him on a pedestal no matter how much she dislikes things that he does.

He calls almost every day which I have decided now I will limit to once or twice a week. After school when she returns it almost 6pm and we barely get much of chance to talk in midst of dinner, homework and bedtime. I can see how he has become the 'fun' parent and I am the tired overworked mum. He doesnt pay for her at all. I dont care much about it but it annoys me when she talks about holidays with him as being extra special than the ones with me coz obviously I have to make sure there is enough money for everything .

The most important takeaway for me here is that you all are suggesting to share the truth about abuse in an age appropriate way. I have only shared that he was unkind and made mum feel very unsafe and that I will share more once she is older. But I think I need to rethink this.

But how do you handle the follow on questions - she has asked many times what did daddy do. He was controlling, abusive emotionally and physically. How does one share that daddy put his hand on mum's throat, pushed her down on the floor. Is it even age appropriate to share that? Any recommendations on how one starts to share about partner's abuse with kids?

Why on earth is he not paying maintenance?

I think it’s ok to say something like “when daddy lived with us daddy pushed me and hurt me. That was not ok and that is why we don’t live together anymore”.

I think you verbalising this is very important, especially as he has shouted at her. It’s important to show that her and you talk about these types of things and there are not something to hide/be shamed of.

She's only 6, it's your job to tell her it's not happening.

He held me down deliberately and it really hurt, he said nasty and unkind things to make me feel bad about myself, he wouldn't let me do the things I should be allowed to do like see my friends or have money to buy the things I need.

Things along that sort of line.

But some social story books? I'm sure there are resources out there for children that I've experienced domestic violence. You need to teach her about boundaries.

Hey your doing a fab job. I totally understand your conserns . My children don't see their father as there is a "no contact order" because of his abusive behaviour towards me and them. They how ever don't remember him being abusive.
There is a very fine line in protecting you child but telling them age appropriate information. It carn't become " a game". As in you need to be aware of what you tell her she may well tell him.
My children know they don't see their father as he was abusive. But I use the judge and other professionals to make things less personal . As in I say that the professionals came to this conclusion etc etc. It makes it much less about "just him and me".
I think it's also really important to try and move your mind set so you're no longer seeing it as you v him. If he wants to get a dog and use that to gain her affection, that's his choice. If he had more money for holidays, that's his choice. Children know which parent makes them feel safe and that feeling of love and security will out way anything he buys her.
I will make the choices in my house until my children are adults. If they then want to meet their father. That's their choice and I will support them in that choice. You know the full story and you know what's best for your child. Don't be afraid of her rejecting you for him, lead by example. Have some " stock answers to her questions". Eg, well that's daddy choice. In his house that's his rules, but when your in my house it's my rules.
You carn't allow yourself to feed into the fear of bring the less favourite patent, you are the stable dependent patent and that's what she needs.
You're doing a great job

Stick firmly to your guns. She’s 6… tell her with some softness why this is the arrangement and thy when she is older or if he lives closer there might be some change. If you think this set up is best for her, don’t budge. He sounds like he could become nasty and manipulative.. I’d be wary. Good luck to you xxx

There's a fab book to teach young children about manipulation, totally age appropriate, recommended at the back of a Lindsey Bancroft book:

A Bargain for Francis

www.wob.com/en-gb/books/russell-hoban/bargain-for-frances/9780749712310

Thank you all. Here's an update. I had a chat with her yesterday. I told her that judge decided blah blah, order can't change, daddy pushed mum down, held her throat etc. All hell broke loose thereafter.

She cried for over an hour though thankfully judge was the fall guy here. She was very very angry with the judge not taking her feelings in to account and that her dad is kind to her. Anyway she refused to eat and said I won't ever speak to anyone anywhere including friends but only speak to dad.

I was very sympathetic but stuck to my guns on her dad's poor behaviour. She didn't want to hear about it. Would scream when I would mention that to drown my voice.

I managed to get her to eat a bit, and calm down. The strangely positive thing that happened was that she stuck to me saying how mum is the best and how much she loves me. I think she did register a bit about the dad.

It's difficult to understand human, even your own child's mind.

Thank you everyone for your advice. I tried something different this time and I felt I might have made a breakthrough. To be seen how much she is brainwashed at her dad's now.