6 yrs old DD wants dad to have equal time. Any advice?

[an17]

My DD 6yrs old 'lives with' me and 'spends time' every other weekend with dad. ExH was abusive, practically a manipulative psychopath and our child arrangement was set up by the courts, proceedings started by him claiming I had abducted her when I fled to refuge with her.

This was 3 yrs back. He has over these years told her that he needs equal time as mummy and mummy doesn't let her spend time with daddy, both untrue. If he moved closer to us, the courts have said he could have extra night.

Now DD has been crying that she wants Dad to have equal time or more time and she misses him a lot. She will spend a lot of time talking to him on the phone.

I did try a few extra nights for her at his last year but she quickly changed her mind as daddy was screaming at her. He has a terrible temper.

He has promised to buy her a dog which would shift things massively in his favour. I don't want to have a dog 😫

It's very difficult as I don't want to see her cry but also don't want her to be manipulated by her dad. I am so conflicted. Would anyone have any advice.

Thank you.

He will be doing a fun Disney dad approach too. This is only because he doesn't have her equal time. This will be a power play from him.

You are behaving in a normal way to a man who is pushing boundaries via manipulating your child.

Your protective instinct is strong. That's why you feel so conflicted. Explaining to her in a child appropriate way is keeping her safe whilst explaining why you have to make certain decisions in order to do that.

Also - just seeing your last post, it's not a conversation that happens once with her - it's something you'll need to repeat to explain over time. She will eventually understand.

Well done OP, you've done the right thing, she expressed her conflicting feelings in a sage space, and was able to communicate her main bond which is to you.

Definitely a breakthrough.

It won't be plain sailing from here on in, but always remember how she loves and trusts you.

*safe space

You can also have the narrative that people who are kind and/or that love her can make bad choices/so bad things.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

She has now gone to dad's who is taking her to winter wonderland. She gave me the biggest hug and so many kisses before leaving.

I think what you said here @JanglyBeads is correct. She might have conflicting feelings herself and expressed herself openly yesterday and just needed me to let her have a cry. She tells me she holds her tongue at dad's to not upset him. So definitely a confirmation she has a strong bond with me and feels safe to express herself.

I am taking the quietness at home today to reflect on things and have a strategy from now on. I have learned so much from you all in two days really.

I recognise I was operating on an improvised plan whilst I need to have a super strategic mindset.

So many things that you all have written here I have noted in my diary to remember.

Definitely need to be the protective parent who ensures the boundaries are held and repeating the message over and over to her steadfastly.

Thank you so much! Probably spurred me on to be a much better parent :)

I am absolutely horrified by Some of these replies. This is her father!

Telling a six year old that her father is basically an awful man is just utterly cruel and will confuse her massively. It is akin to parental allianation. She does not need to know this at 6 years old, what a thing to put into a child’s head.

There is a time and place to talk about things like this, but it certainly isn’t at such an impressionable age.

This would not be in any child’s best interest whilst they still have regular contact with their parent. do not put adult issues into a child, she only gets one childhood, there is no need to corrupt her relationships until she is able to understand and process the issue last better.

I truly believe The most that should be said to a child of her age is something along the lines of ‘mummy and daddy didn’t get along together very well, but we both love you.’

That would be all well and good if there was no abuse involved.
However abuse was involved and from what Op writes father is still trying to assert power by manipulating the child.

Are you suggesting lying then? BecUse the contact is limited and relationship ended because of abuse not because the parents “didn’t get along”.

Telling a six year old that her father is basically an awful man is just utterly cruel and will confuse her massively.

Who do you think is pushing the equal time message? Who’s telling the child mommy is awful and won’t let them see each other?

Sometimes the true if far better than a lie.

@PopUpMoon

Clearly not what the judge thought when they deemed him to be safe to look after his child?!

@Allsnotwell

Not to a six year old that doesn’t understand adult issues and continues to have a court mandated relationship with her father.

Do you not know that the courts let DC have contact with parents that have abused them, and continue to abuse them. The threshold is incredibly high to stop all contact.

Children do need age appropriate truth. They need to know that "good" people and people they love can do bad/hurtful/wrong things. It's fundamental to their development to be able to trust their instincts that something feels bad/wrong - if you constantly whitewash it's very dangerous as they don't develop an inner voice that they can trust.

We have been clear that OP can be truthful that her ex did bad/wrong things to her. Doesn't mean that her DD can't love her Dad, see her Dad, be safe with him.

If you create a false narrative "we didn't get on" the children wrongly fill in the blanks, can conclude it was their fault, or Mum's fault.

This child is already confused that her Dad says things that hurt and upset her so it's important that she knows her Mum has experienced poor behaviour from him too so she can develop her inner voice that it isn't her fault when Dad treats her badly.

@RandomMess

This little girl will be pulled in two directions. This is her mummy, any child of that age would be horrified to find out somebody hurt their mum, But to find out it’s her father who she adores and loves will cause her so much distress.

She’s likely to feel that she is betraying her mum by loving her dad after he hurt her, and if she does stop thinking highly of her dad then she is going to experience trauma from that.

There are so many other ways to explain to a six year old why they cannot spend more time with their dad without making them have a tug of war of emotions between both parents and a massive amount of guilt they are likely going to experience.

I really don’t think it’s fair to do this to such a young child. If we were talking about an older child, I may not be so firm in my position,but as it stands, this post is about a 6 year old.

This isn’t an absent father, this is a father who has an established relationship with his daughter.

So true, @RandomMess.

@Mumuser124 it might help if you imagine what you think an appropriate maternal narrative if the father was physically abusing the child?

Because emotional abuse is no less damaging, just in different ways.

There is nothing to be gained and a lot of potential harm in telling her. Even if it's age appropriate. She's stuck in the middle of all this.
It is to no advantage to tell her how dreadful he has treated her mother. My children don't see their father (no contact order). So i also have first hand experience of this. It's a very very tricky situation.
It's been through the courts and the judge has allowed contact. He may well be manipulate but all the mother needs to do is stand firm. Honestly if the mother tells the child it will go straight back to the father. He will then make up more nasty stuff. Rince and repeat. This will be so so confusing and damaging for the child. She won't know who she can trust.
Remain the protective parent by rising above it.
If your worried about how she comes back and what she says keep a detailed diary of it all. You never know when you may need to go back to court.

@Mumuser124 I do get your concern and I am more inclined to think like you. But I can guess you have not been in an abusive relationship or gaslighted. The truth is the dad is brain washing her against me all this while when I was busy protecting their relationship.

She is at his today and on the call she said she saw a "butt ring" on dad's phone. I suspect she has seen some image or porn in his phone. He was shouting its something I have taught her or shown her.

I am so horrified by what my poor child has witnessed. I am going to arrange for help from a professional because I don't even know how to handle something like this.

It's utterly sad. I feel so helpless. My poor little child.

Wow!!! She said what!! That’s so concerning!

This is the kind of high conflict separated parenting that will cause your child to have issues. If you have concerns that she is being shown inappropriate material on his phone call social services and stop contact until it is investigated.

Alongside this your child will need some outside help to navigate it all.

I agree that telling a small child negative messages about a parent isn't ideal. At this age some children find it difficult to separate their identity from those of their parents. Hearing negative messages about a parent very rarely affects how they feel about that parent. Instead the message becomes internalised and affects their own self-esteem. If daddy is bad then I'm bad. And if daddy is bad then I'm bad for loving him. And vice versa. If both parents are giving negative message then it's a double whammy of confusion and pain. As grown ups we need to sit on all of those feelings of injustice until the child has formed a strong, positive self image. It would have been enough to say, "a judge decided that it was best for you to stay with mummy and we can't change that".

There is a HUGE difference between saying Daddy is bad and saying Daddy did some bad things to Mummy and that's why they will not live together again.

This is along with that people can do bad things and we can forgive them and love them and that's ok.

Can posters not understand that it is the father who is putting the child into the high conflict situation, not they mother? It's her job to try and work out how best to then equip a six year old to deal with this. In the context of professionals who will probably say it "doesn't meet the threshold for investigation", or if they do take it on as a case, will find in dad's favour.

Absolutely in this case it seems that it is dad that is fuelling the conflict. But just because dad is doing it, doesn't mean Mum has to do it too. Mum can only do what is within her power to do to support and help her child. These things are

-Stop contact if she believes her child is being emotionally abused and contact social services.
-Support her child by being the emotionally stable and available parent.
-Provide access to outside agencies that might help her child to cope with what is happening for her.

Small children find it very hard to distinguish between doing bad things and being bad. By saying "daddy did a bad thing and the judge said that you can only see him sometimes" you are leaving it up to her imagination what those bad things are - did he tell a lie, did he lose something, did he not tidy his room. What if I do a bad thing, will mummy stop loving me too? It is not lying to say simply that the judge said she has to live with mummy most of the time. When the child comes back and says "but daddy said it's you who is stopping me from seeing him." You simply repeat "Mummy takes you to see daddy every week. That's what the judge decided" this way you are reinforcing that you support the relationship, transferring the responsibility for the decision to the judge and avoiding any negative messages.

Yes I agree it is important to try and get the right wording/ underlying feel to what is said to the child.

Family courts are deeply flawed and prioritise the rights of children to know their fathers. If I told you the things my ex son in law did I think you would be very shocked, but his children still have to spend the usual amount of time with him.

The plus side is that he doesn't get put on a pedestal as an absent father. Hopefully they will see him for what he is eventually.

It's a fine balancing act between being truthful and saying too much. It's one abused women walk all the time.

Op, my grandchildren know that it is the courts who decided the amount of contact and that has worked well so far. They know some bad things happened, but no details. That will be for when they are much older and can process it better.

Allowing a child to view pornographic material is child abuse.