Children don't want to go out with their Dad

[NeedSleepNow]

I am a single Mum to 3 children aged 12, 10 and 5. They live with me full time (no court order in place and no real routine with when they see their Dad which is causing all manor of problems but that's a separate issue).

They do see their Dad most weekends and sometimes in the week but the kids often don't want to. We still own the house jointly so legally he can come and go as he wants to. Recently he has arranged to take them out but the kids do not want to go. The oldest has a terrible relationship with his Dad and wants very little to do with him. The 10 year old is very clingy and tearful and just wants to stay with me and the 5 year old is happyl to go some of the time but other times just sobs.

Would you force the kids to go or just make them available and if they won't go don't make an issue of it? Their Dad does often see them at the house but they don't want to go out with him. I think they feel more secure at home. He gets very angry with me when the children don't want to go with him.

Firstly i watched something online ( so may not be true ) if a parent had left a home for a certain period he doesn't have the right to come and go at his own home..

I would speak to the solicitor .. you may need to deal with the children separately. The opinion of the 12 year old is much more likely to be heard than the 5 year old.

I think that if I were you I’d go out and leave them to it.

He often comes round and sees them here and I will just get on with housework and stay out of the way to give them time together. I would prefer for them to go out though as I feel that I have to see him almost as much as I did when we were together!

The kids are ok seeing him here at the house but they generally don't want to go out with him or only for a short time which he gets very angry about.

Luckily our youngest is the one who is happiest to go out and about with him, although not for a full day or he finds it too much and just wants to see me and come home. Ex can't understand that though and just gets angry with me about it.

Given the kids ages they have to be treated differently. The 12 year old gets more say in whether they go or not.
A routine would probably suit the kids much better. Where they know exactly what time they are going at and what time they are coming home at. Is it possible to discuss a routine with your ex. How about you drop them to a neutral place so that they are already out of the house so it’s one less obstacle.
My DS always had a poor relationship with his father and of course my EX always blames me when DS doesn’t bother with him. They never spent one on one time together until I was preparing to leave and wanted to make the transition easier for DS and insisted that it happen. Before that he was always too tired or too busy or needed to do unpaid overtime etc. From DS being tiny I was trying to tell EX about importance of quality time, care giving roles etc in the parent child attachment process. I was talking nonsense. It’s so infuriating now when he gets angry at me when DS doesn’t bother answering the phone to him or cancels their plans together. I get a lecture on how bad a mother I am and how unfair it is on him as he is a good father. Once DS is 18 the number is getting blocked.
I would always advise to Be very careful about what you say about your EX to the DC. Be chill about them seeing him. Kids can pick up vibes from parents and feel like they will upset one parent if they enjoy spending time with the other. Reassure the kids that their happiness is most important and that you want them to enjoy their time with their dad. It’s up to your ex to then step up and make the father/child relationship a good one.
You shouldn’t have to leave the house you live in because he can’t get his kids to spend time with him.

Thank you so much for your reply. I think the younger two would definitely be happier with a routine. As the struggle not knowing what is happening when. I think the oldest would cut all contact if he was able to.

We are going through mediation and this is one of the things I want to try to agree with him. At the moment he wants to see them every Saturday, Sunday and twice during the week which isn't working. He gets angry if they have clubs, homework or get invited to see their friends as he feels he should always be their priority. He messages and just expects all plans to be dropped and if I say it's not a convenient time or day I get abusive text messages, shouted at infront of the kids or yelled at in the street in front of the neighbours 🤦‍♀️

I try to convince the kids to go out with him, remind them that Daddy loves them and misses them, and that he just enjoys spending time with them but it is so hard if they are screaming, clinging to me crying that they don't want to go. I do then get told that as the Mother I should be forcing them to go as then their relationship would improve.

I just feel so frustrated. I left him mainly because I couldn't stand the way he treated us all, and the kids were so unhappy. Now he has left but I still have to see him more days than not, he turns up when he wants as he owns the house too, constant phone calls, texts wanting to know what we are don't, where we are, why didn't we answer the phone the first time....

What a mess
aee a solicitor and get some firm boundaries in place

why did you separate? He sounds entitled and is being abusive and threatening to you.
does he pay maintenance or for any upkeep on the house he’s swanning in and out still?
is he involved with school and homework etc?

he is bullying you all and needs to be put in his place. You wouldn’t be expected to host him every weekend and nights during the week he needs to step up and either be a decent parent in his own right which involves respecting you or tell him to fuck off and see him in court

this is no life for you or the kids

Thanks for your reply @Whiskeypowers . He is paying maintenance based on the cms calculated rate, but he loves to tell everyone that he pays way too much and that he pays towards the house. I frequently remind him that no, cms is for the children and he is NOT paying towards anything else. I pay for the mortgage, household bills, etc.and use his cm payments towards all of the children's costs like clothes, school trips, activities, parties, birthday presents, days out, food, etc. His payments do not cover all child related costs but he seems to think it does and pays towards the house.

We separated as I was sick of the kids and I being treated like crap. We were always in the wrong, the kids were constantly shouted at, their confidence was non existant, the atmosphere at home was toxic and I was sick of walking on eggshells around him. He of course tells everyone how devastated he is that I kicked him out, have made him unwelcome in his home, am preventing him seeing the children....

No he isn't involved with school or homework. He has complained that I don't let him come round to help with the Homework but it just feels like another way he is trying to have control. On the rare occasion he has helped with it in the past it always ends badly. The kids upset as he moans and tells them they are doing it all wrong, don't listen etc. When I told him the kids were busy doing homework and couldn't see him until the afternoon he started demanding to know why he can't come round and assist with homework at the weekends and after school. He can't seem to grasp that we have separated and it is not normal for him to then spend most of his free time back here.

You don't need to let him in the house
You don't have to take his calls
You don't have to speak to him at all
Offer a set time for him to collect the children, EOW and one night during the week.

STOP facilitating him and instead start protecting your children.

Does he live somewhere that he can have them overnight ?

If so this should be happening. You need to TELL them 'you are at your dads tonight' . Of course the relationship is poor if he never has them out of the house. It will only get worse. You also need some time for yourself. When you get a routine agreed through mediation and an agreement is reached you both tell the dc. It is not optional. A 12 year old can have their voice heard by the court or their reasons for not wanting contact advocated by you at mediation. It doesn't mean they get their way. If they do then that will be the end of the relationship with the father . He only has a few years to turn this around before the mid teen years when friends will be more important than a parental relationship.

All this is of course with the caveat that he is a kind, responsible parent who is simply trying to re-establish a relationship with kids . who have gone through a big family upheaval and reluctant of change. He seems to make the effort to see them a lot. However , of course if there are welfare issues then you need to raise these in the mediation and come to an appropriate decision.

You need legal advice on your separation. I worry that you are maintaining the mortgage on a property that he part owns.

Cross post. I see he is not kind nor does he seem to put the kids needs first. In which case it is probably going to mean him applying through the courts for a CAO . Then you need to say what you said above and a social worker will need to do a Section 7 report. They will talk to you, him and the kids and make an appropriate recommendation to the judge.

Please don't listen to people telling you that he can't come to the house. He is a joint owner until this is decided in the divorce ans as such has a right to enter unless you get an occupation order.

What would you do if they didn't want to go to school? You'd send them. At their age they do as they're told, and that is seeing their dad. The best thing you can do is encourage that relationship.

That is unless there are valid reasons for stopping contact of course

@Shouldbedoing I was wondering that too.

@NeedSleepNow have you got a solicitor yet? I don’t think mediation is going toe work here and even if there is not abuse being. Raised as a factor he sounds abusive and controlling so it won’t work anyway. You can’t mediate with someone like that. You are expected to capitulate.

I do have a solicitor but have only had a couple of hours advice so far. I don't have much spare money so I was hoping we could try to agree things by mediation rather than going through the courts but I can't see how mediation will work as he is not I've to ever discuss things and listen to others opinions l.

@amylou8 I agree, if it was about school they would be sent no questions asked. The problem is that when he has had them for the day before, they get back and he and the eldest are always arguing, he just walks in the house which he legally can, sends son to his room and keeps shouting and yelling. Our daughter is then usually sobbing & clinging to me and will be up for hours at night crying telling me she never wants to leave me. I want them all to have a good relationship with their Dad but as a mother it is so hard sending them knowing how hard they find it and knowing that their Dad destroys their confidence and their spirit.

@eighteenmonthstogo no, he opted to rent somewhere with only one bedroom so doesn't have space to have them overnight.

This isn’t a valid comparison if a child has a toxic parent. It’s very difficult when you know that child is dreadfully unhappy with other parent due to that parents treatment of the child. It’s not up to the resident parent to force the children to see the toxic parent. It’s up to the toxic parent to address their behaviour and do better so they can improve the relationship with the child/children.
OP is not responsible for the relationship between her ex and the children. The foundation for that is there since birth. It’s her ex’s responsibility to ensure he is a positive influence in his children lives.

Thank you @Crunchingleaf . This is my gut feeling. Whenever he has wanted to take them out for the day I have made sure the children are available to see him, they are up, dressed, no other activities planned that day etc. but if they really don't want to go my instinct is that I should not force them, that their feelings need to be listened too, not just their Dad's.

It's so hard, the youngest has a very good relationship with him and is happy to go out and about with him. Our daughter does want to see him but doesn't feel comfortable going out with him, she needs the security of being at home in her space but obviously this makes it difficult for me as I don't want him only seeing the kids here as is making my life tricky. The eldest doesn't really want to see him at all, their relationship is the most strained and he doesn't want his Dad coming round here invading what is now his safe space (it was never that when his Dad lived with us). He will very occasionally go out with him but it always ends badly and then I have to deal with the emotional roller-coaster that come after, him screaming and shouting that he hates his Dad, tears and upset of why is his Dad like his but not others...

This is very difficult. Can you get onto a 60/40 or 50/50 contact schedule yourselves.

Imo it's a good idea to keep it out of family court unless you have grave concerns.

Firm up boundaries.
He can take them to his, set up bedrooms at his?, Cook them dinner at his, etc etc

Get on with financial split.
Ask the kids what the matter is, talk to ex about what he can improve.

Get him to step up so you have time off and can work etc.

Yes women sometimes get the kids 100% but for some they end up broken by it.

Make him step up. Be assertive with him. He's not allowed in your home anymore.

Why does eldest get so upset? What is happening? I get eldest needs a space at yours - perhaps he's confused? Yes you and ex have broken up but he still comes round, comes in?

Their relationship had never been great, with some emotional abuse. The final straw for me was when eldest was curled up on the floor sobbing with ex shouting in his face about how he needs to learn.

Ex still comes over, doesn't ring the bell just let's himself in with key and frequently shouts at eldest, sends him to his room, yells at him about how he never learns, his bad behaviour... Eldest does not have a safe space here whilst ex still can come over whenever he wants. Legally I can't do anything until or finances are sorted.

He behaves like that with his son?
there is no way this should be happening why are you allowing it?

I would 100% fight against 50/50 contact, if that is what he wanted, as there has been emotional abuse and ex can be quite volatile. the older two would struggle massively with 50/50 or even 60/40 and the youngest would probably adapt after a while. I think an EOW and one night in the week would be best for everyone at the moment.

This sounds terrible yes.

How long ago did he move out?
If it were me, I'd change the locks and start boundarying up. You have a right to a home. Yes it's his house but it's your home and the reality is he would have a hard time justifying being able to have access to your home

I would also not force the contact with the older one saying something to the ex like 'he doesn't want to see you because you shout in his face like a massive bully. It's up to you to patch up your relationship. I'm very happy to support that but you are the one that needs to make amends.'

I know legally he's allowed access to his asset but if you're not together and he's causing trouble, you could probably justify changing locks. If he causes more trouble call the police. It's a civil matters I think so they would tell him to apply for access to his asset through a court and I don't imagine a court would allow it as it would be seen as unreasonable. Certainly if he's been gone six months plus I would absolutely change the locks. Fyi I changed the locks after about two weeks because my ex was being such an awful carcrash of an ex that I had to for my sanity. My lawyer knew about it and was fine with it. I also did file a police report once as I felt he was being controlling. They didn't do anything obviously but it felt better to have it on record.