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Lone parents

Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

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Original poster

HELP! H has said I can't take the kids on holiday - is he right?

31 replies

lunavix · 05/01/2008 10:39

I asked him two weeks ago if it was okay for me to take our two children to fueretventura for a week.He ummed and ahhed (it's a messy break up and we're still living together - it's been five months and not pleasant) and said it's not suitable there, so I said it was a family resort, and then he ummmed and ahhed cos a friend is coming with us with her kids who he dislikes, and then he said okay,

although apparently I have to have a written letter of consent to take the kids out of the country from him a month in advance??????

So I went ahead and booked the holiday, and this morning realised we'd be away for fathers day. Knowing he'd want to spend it with the kids (and he'd refuse to let me take them anyway) I phoned to try and change it, there was one suite left on two different dates, so I phoned him (he's out) to ask which was better. He went nuts at me down the phone saying that I'd promised to show him dates etc before I booked, which I hadn't. And he shouted 'well pick one' and hung up. So I booked one that went over a weekend I was sure he'd be away.

Now he phoned back saying I show him no respect, I'm in breach of mediation (we had a mediation appointment and agreed to run purchases over £500 past each other. this was 550 so he says I'm in breach of it, even though I asked him about the holiday) he says I showed him no respect by not showing him a list of dates and picking one suitable for him when he had his diary in front of him, and I talk to him disrespectfully. He says I only changed it now because I was stuck in a jam!!! Uh no, I only changed it to suit him.

So he says because I didn't show him a list of prices, he's refusing on breach of mediation (not sure if that's entirely valid) he's refusing as I didn't show him a list of dates, and he's refusing because I'm disrespectful. So he's not writing that letter so I can take them out the country.

Do I need this letter???? Noone else has heard of it.

OP posts:

FatBellyJones · 05/01/2008 10:42

I think every situation is different but when I split up with xh my conditions were that I couldn't take them out of the country for longer than 30 days without his consent, it was never an issue tho because he buggered off and never saw them for 11 years.

I would ring your solicitor and ask.

It sucks big time tho doesn't it?

LIZS · 05/01/2008 10:43

If you have the same surname name as them it should n't be a problem. How would Immigration know anyway?

I've known instances where parent has different name to children and/or passport of different nationality have issues and carry such letters but generally only when travelling outside EU

notjustmom · 05/01/2008 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SeaShells · 05/01/2008 10:48

My mum took DS to America last year and got stopped at the American airport and asked why she was travelling with him and if she had a letter of consent from his parents, she didn't and it was cleared up quickly as she is his grandparent, and that was America! So with regards to travelling with your DCs I don't see why travelling with their mum would cause such issue. What leads you to believe you need this letter written a month in advance? Ring your solicitor to find out where you stand.

Original poster

lunavix · 05/01/2008 10:48

yes but i need to know legally ...

I wouldn't have thought it was a problem but I can't see anything on the net. He's coming back in an hour and I'd like to know by then...

OP posts:

CorrieDale · 05/01/2008 10:50

You only need his permission if there's a residence order in place giving him residence of the children. Breach of mediation? Lol!!!! He's trying to make you feel as though he is in control of the process. Mediation should be about equals negotiating, and if he's going to try waving sticks at you then that is hardly in the spirit of mediation. Make sure you have a good solicitor to go over the eventual mediation agreement.

welshdeb · 05/01/2008 10:56

I think that a letter is required for non parents taking children out of the country (ie grandparents). Also I believe that some counries are more insistent than others ie America.
I cant see that there is a problem as you are the resident parent and the children aren't subject to any residency orders.
I would see a solicitor asap.
He sounds like a total control freak.

DoubleBluff · 05/01/2008 10:59

Either of you are allowed to take them abroad for a period not exceeeding thirty days with out the others permission, unless there is a court order preventing it.

Original poster

lunavix · 05/01/2008 11:00

crap crap bollocks

If you have sole Parental Responsibility, you do not need the permission of the other parent to take your child abroad.

If you have joint Parental Responsibility you will need the consent of anyone else with Parental Responsibility, unless you have a Residence Order.

If you have a Residence Order for your child, you can take them abroad for up to a month without the consent of anyone else with Parental Responsibility.

That's off the Gingerbread website. I split up with someone because he's controlling and now I can't even take my children on holiday because he gets a say in it

OP posts:

welshdeb · 05/01/2008 11:05

Hi
I found some info for you. It looks like you might need this letter but even if he refuses you can go to court and they will approve it as you have already bought the tickets.

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/pdfs/when_parents_separate.pdf

Before you take your child abroad for a
holiday you must seek the permission of
anyone else who has PR for your child (if
you are not sure whether the person has
PR see our Guide to Parental
Responsibility). If they do not agree to you
taking your child abroad you can make an
application to the court for leave to
remove your child from the
jurisdiction. Scotland, Northern Ireland
and Ireland are all outside the court?s
jurisdiction. If your former partner refuses
you permission to take your child on
holiday at the last minute and you have
already booked your tickets you can make
an emergency application to the court.

CorrieDale · 05/01/2008 11:12

From the Children's Legal Centre:

Can I take my child abroad?
This is always a difficult issue; legally a resident parent
does not need the consent of the other parent to
take the child abroad for less than a month, unless a
court order prevents this. However, parents should be
reasonable about this, the parent going abroad should
get agreement from the other parent and give them
plenty of notice.
If a parent wishes to remove their child from the UK
for longer than a month then the necessary consent
from all parental responsibility holders will be required.
The application for a passport must signed by one person
with parental responsibility. In the case of unmarried
fathers who have obtained parental responsibility
through a court order or a parental responsibility
agreement, the original order or agreement must be
sent with the application to prove the father has parental
responsibility.

notjustmom · 05/01/2008 11:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

madamez · 05/01/2008 11:15

Yup, take it to court if he won't co-operate, because he is being unreasonable (the reason this legal requirement exists is to stop people taking DC out of the country permanently to prevent the XP having any contact) and obviously just trying to make you obey him. THere is clearly no risk that you are going to flee with the DC and never come home. You don't have to show him 'respect' in the way he talks about it, he is not your owner, nor your employer, nor your superior in any way. Politeness and consideration are a reasonable requirement, deferring to this wanker's every whim is not.

Tinkerbeltinsel · 05/01/2008 14:06

lunavix your ex sounds like a control freak, it might be worth it in the future to not be so honest with what you are doing with your plans, it might be harder as you are both living together still but the first thing is to try and move out or get him to move out, I dont see how he can physically stop you taking your children for a holiday, do get some proper legal advice cause at the moment it looks like he isnt going to agree with you doing anything with your children without his permission

mrspnut · 05/01/2008 14:16

I would work on the basis that as there is no current court order regarding residence or contact that you will be taking the children on holiday and that if he doesn't agree then he can apply to the court for a prohibited steps order.

The he has to do the work and pay the fee, and it's most likely that a judge would laugh him out of court.

He's doing it to try and control you, and as you've already changed your plans so he can see the children on father's day, you told him that you were going to book a holiday and gave him plenty of notice. then I think you are being more than reasonable.

Alambil · 05/01/2008 23:24

My ex said no to a 2 week break in Cyprus when DS was younger.

I took it to court (well - raised it on one of the days we were there anyway) and the Judge said that all I had to do was show my return ticket to the lawyer to prove I am coming back/the length of break.

Talk to your lawyer - he can say no but there are ways round his being an arse!

pirategirl · 06/01/2008 18:39

me and ex dh have joint parental responsibility. We are divorced. I have residency. I have to ask his permissiob to take dd abraod for any longer than one month.

4sonsmum · 06/01/2008 22:30

All it took for me to take the kids on holiday without their dads permission was to show the tickets to my lawyer - proving they were return tickets - was difficult cos I am in Scotland and he is England - so both laws applied!
Once he knew i had done that there was no problem!

MAMAZON · 06/01/2008 22:39

who is this letter meant to be for?

unless you are mid way through a court order giving him custody of the children then you as a parent are within your righst to go on holiday. there is nothing he can do unless he wants to apply to the court

Alambil · 06/01/2008 23:22

It's got nothing to do with custody though and everything to do with Parental Responsibility - which basically gives exes the chance to be arses and completely unreasonable "just because".

If he has PR, he can stop her going away and she would have to go to court to change his power - if she just goes, she will be breaking the law and could be arrested (so said my barrister when I said I was just going to go!)

mrspnut · 07/01/2008 11:34

If there is no current court orders then you can take the children abroad for less than a month without "permission". PR only kicks in if you want to go for more than a month and even then the father would still need to apply to court for a prohibited steps order to stop you going.

My advice above still stands - Tell him that you're going and if he doesn't want you to then he has to apply to court to stop you.

HappyMummyOfOne · 07/01/2008 17:10

If the children have the same name as you then you should be fine for under 30 days. My boss was stopped and asked for the permission letter but she has a different name to her daughter so they did check she had permission before being allowed to proceed.

LittleBella · 07/01/2008 17:18

He would have to have a good reason for not wanting you to go if he did go to court - like fear of abduction. He'd have to show a good, well founded reason why that is a reasonable fear.

He sounds like a complete and utter tosser. Tell him he can explain to the kids why he wants to stop them going on holiday

partypiece · 07/01/2008 17:22

he is talking crap. You have a perfect right in law to take your own kids on holiday for a fortnight (ie not more than a month) and he can suck it up. He can't He is being horrible, unreasonable and very very controlling. I presume that's why you are very wisely getting divorced!

partypiece · 07/01/2008 17:23

"talk to him disrespectfully" He's not the teacher and you the pupil! Where does he get off?

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