Contact schedule AIBU

[Blendiful]

So exH works a job where the shifts and days on/off change every single week. For years now we have had an arrangement where the kids go on the days he’s off. It’s always been a nightmare but more so recently.

The kids have no idea where they are at, and sometimes it can be last minute he lets us know shifts so they don’t know until maybe the day before they are going. I put a stop to that saying it was a week in advance or not happening.

However the kids have to cart stuff back and forwards (school stuff, stuff for clubs, to go to mates houses etc) because there’s no set days and this they hate, they also often forget things so we are having to run between houses to drop/collect stuff.

We have also had issues with both kids behaviour recently, they have totally different rules at each house I.e. none at his! Or very very little, they have very little respect for him and he rarely inputs any boundaries. For example one DC has a medical issue where he isn’t supposed to have certain food/drinks, he gives it anyway, it’s not life threatening or anything or something that’ll make him I’ll long term but it is socially annoying (trying not to be too outing) and restricts what he can/can’t do, took me ages to get ex to stop giving him the stuff he shouldn’t be as ‘he likes it’!

Anyway I am now proposing that the kids have a set schedule, Fri,sat sun each week and tea in the week if he’s off and it falls on a day they don’t have plans.

Ex doesn’t do 50% of the parenting, I do all clubs, appts, parents evenings, school etc.

The kids would prefer a set schedule. He wants to be able to message on a whim for them to go whenever he’s off and doesn’t take into account they have a life.

AIBU? Ex says I am

YANBU, you can’t all live like that.

I think every weekend in one house in not great for quality time but some set days sounds a good idea.

The problem with it not being each weekend is that Sunday is his most ‘consistent’ day off. So that’s why I went for that.

There are other things that happen on a weekend (all football related) which means I would see one of the DC anyway if he was at work as I would have to pick them up to do that.

This will mean his GF ‘looking after’ them if he’s at work, which he said he didn’t think was fair, I agree but I don’t see how we have any other option as whatever set days that’s going to happen, also the DC are teens so technically don’t need looking after they are capable of managing themselves whilst he is at work. My DP also has to do this our end when I am working as the current arrangement means exH only has them when he’s off, whereas I have them the other 90% regardless of whether I’m working or not.

We also do quite a lot in the week on the evening with the kids so would still get quality time IMO more so than now. The way it works at the moment is exH gets all the quality time as he gets them solely when he’s off whereas I get to work full time and juggle them and do all the ‘menial’ jobs like homework, appointments etc and he does 0 of this.

I feel like we’ve done it his way for years now and it’s done nothing but cause issues. Time for things to change

Yes they need set days.

Suggest what works best for you.

Yanbu

I'm surprised that your kids haven't refused to go when the arrangement is so arbitrary.

Totally agree that even if they see their dad less, he needs to commit to a routine that is consistent and regular. Do you know how far in advance he gets his rota?

I have a 15yo and he likes a few days notice if it's not the usual routine eg and earlier pick up time and I think that's perfectly reasonable tbh Luckily his dad is reasonable if the change isn't convenient and he understands that ds might have made plans

I would be very surprised if his girlfriend agreed to look after them if he's not available. Would this not leave you in a similar situation? He's due to have them Fri/Sat/Sun but he's working Saturday so the children will end up with you.

I suppose it would make it easier if these were the only days available.

I saw your post on the step parenting board but decided to reply here.

If your ex went via the court system, it would pretty much be guaranteed they say work around his schedule. That doesn't, however, mean that it cannot be a set schedule based on the rota. So for example, if it was a 6 week rota before it repeats, there would be consistent dates he had the children each of the weeks. And it doesn't mean that he has the children for every non working day he has.

So I think that in an ideal world, you'd have his schedule and you'd agree a pattern based on that.

I personally, don't agree that the father's contact should be at times when he won't be there for the majority of their waking day when it is a weekend. And I think that not every step parent wishes to take responsibility for their stepchildren. Your oh may look after your children when you work, but that's your choice. And their sm may view this differently as may the children.

Tbh it makes no difference to me if she doesn’t have them and they are here. That would be up to them. I don’t mind when they are here or not. It’s about having consistency for them and the being able to do activities and plan things they want without having it turned upside down with a few days notice.

I get the rota maybe the week before. The schedule is about a 40 week rolling rota with different days on/off every single week. Even if it was 6 week rolling that would be better. There is 0 consistency.

I don’t actually think the courts would say that, as their interest would be what works for the kids, not him and they are both at an age they could say and they both want set days.

I don't think you're unreasonable wanting set days but also not sure how it would work in reality as there isn't much point sending them to their dads if he's not even there? They will lose time with him if you change to this.

Is there no way he can get his shifts further in advance so even though it's not set days the kids know where they will be sooner?

I don’t actually think the courts would say that, as their interest would be what works for the kids, not him and they are both at an age they could say and they both want set days.

Agree but he can't deliver set days so surely it just means they get way less time with him?

To be honest, if his shifts are that unreliable I don't see how you can insist on set days. As they are now teens can't you let them communicate with him and they just let you know. They can tell him if they want to come? At their age as their dad lives close by it makes more sense for them to see him but still sleep at yours too, going back and forth is hard on children and they are old enough to be home alone even if you have plans

He will be there but maybe at work for some of the day, no different from when I have the kids and I am at work all day. He won’t be at work all day for those days. Some days he may be home by 1/2pm some days he might not start until 3/4pm.

He could have them 50/50 set days for me; then it would work out about the same time we got to see them as I also work. But he doesn’t want that, I’ve offered.

The reality is he doesn’t really want to do any of the parenting tasks. He wants to play Disney dad, have them only when he is off and only do fun things. He wants them to drop all their clubs and activities when he has them. The kids don’t want to.

But also if he presents them with a choice of, we can go to a theme park, or you can go to your club, he’s effectively putting them in a difficult position too. As he doesn’t plan anything around when they have commitments, we do. Mainly cause these things are paid for for 1, and 2 because other people are relying on them at these clubs/jobs too, and I think it’s teaching them good values to not just Jack something in when a better offer comes along because that’s not how life works. As a special treat, yes, but not just because you don’t fancy it. And it’s for these reasons I don’t like them communicating direct. He has no idea what their commitments are because he’s not interested and whilst the eldest is ok to sort it the youngest is very reactive and doesn’t think that in depth about what he needs to do ahead of time (another skill we are trying to teach him).

@gogohm

To be honest, if his shifts are that unreliable I don't see how you can insist on set days. As they are now teens can't you let them communicate with him and they just let you know. They can tell him if they want to come? At their age as their dad lives close by it makes more sense for them to see him but still sleep at yours too, going back and forth is hard on children and they are old enough to be home alone even if you have plans

That’s why I’ve said to him set days for overnights. If he’s off in the week they can go from school for tea and back home to sleep. As long as they don’t have clubs - if he doesn’t want to take them.

Ah ok well that's a bit different then if you've offered 50/50 and he's not interested. I do think if he's not willing to take on any of the parenting then he should be more flexible with when and if the kids want to come.

@Blendiful

Tbh it makes no difference to me if she doesn’t have them and they are here. That would be up to them. I don’t mind when they are here or not. It’s about having consistency for them and the being able to do activities and plan things they want without having it turned upside down with a few days notice.

I get the rota maybe the week before. The schedule is about a 40 week rolling rota with different days on/off every single week. Even if it was 6 week rolling that would be better. There is 0 consistency.

I don’t actually think the courts would say that, as their interest would be what works for the kids, not him and they are both at an age they could say and they both want set days.

I have experience of many women, not men, whose exes work shifts. And all when they have gone to court, have had to accommodate the shift patterns as being in the children's best interests. Especially so if he worked shifts when you were together.

With a 40 week rolling rota, it should be quite practical to plan ahead for the 40 weeks so they should be able to know well in advance when he will be having contact.

If this is actually that your ex won't commit in advance, then yes, a court order would help you out as he would have to decide on the rota and honour it.

Ultimately, your wish to have activities in the week as a family will probably always be interrupted at some point. And that's the way with clubs etc unfortunately with split families.

Sadly, clubs, attendance or not, priority or not, is down to different parenting styles. If cafcass were involved and the clubs were say something connected to some disability or special need for example, then a court would take this in to account.

If the children were very vocal with the father and he chose to ignore, they may comment on it, but they will not court order that they must every Wednesday attend football/archery/scouts etc.

At the end of the day, you as a parent value these, not every parent feels that way. And parental contact will inevitably be valued more highly by courts.

Things is he does value these things, he just only wants them to do them when I have them.

The clubs they do, for example for DS if he didn’t attend when with his dad, he wouldn’t be able to attend at all because it’s a team sport who rely on his attendance and so he would be asked to leave. DS would be very very upset by that because he loves it. Tbh my life is easier if they do nothing, I am busy with work, and now they are older my own life and activities too. But currently I plan these around what the kids do, because they want to go and have asked to attend these things. They aren’t for me, they are for the kids. I would have more time and money if they didn’t bother!

The kids are too old to go to court regardless so that’s pointless anyway, they are at the age where they could be asked. And they both want set days, hence the whole issue in the first place. They hate the juggling.

The 40 week rolling rota is a long time in advance to plan, still doesn’t solve it being different days each week, or his impact on their behaviour and medical needs, or the fact the kids don’t want different days each week.

I think when kids are little yes courts would say accommodate it’s different if it’s the kids that don’t want to. I accommodated and we have all done for years. But now the kids are older their priorities have changed and they no longer want to do this.

@Blendiful

Things is he does value these things, he just only wants them to do them when I have them.

The clubs they do, for example for DS if he didn’t attend when with his dad, he wouldn’t be able to attend at all because it’s a team sport who rely on his attendance and so he would be asked to leave. DS would be very very upset by that because he loves it. Tbh my life is easier if they do nothing, I am busy with work, and now they are older my own life and activities too. But currently I plan these around what the kids do, because they want to go and have asked to attend these things. They aren’t for me, they are for the kids. I would have more time and money if they didn’t bother!

The kids are too old to go to court regardless so that’s pointless anyway, they are at the age where they could be asked. And they both want set days, hence the whole issue in the first place. They hate the juggling.

The 40 week rolling rota is a long time in advance to plan, still doesn’t solve it being different days each week, or his impact on their behaviour and medical needs, or the fact the kids don’t want different days each week.

I think when kids are little yes courts would say accommodate it’s different if it’s the kids that don’t want to. I accommodated and we have all done for years. But now the kids are older their priorities have changed and they no longer want to do this.

Courts will make cao until the children are adults.

If they're teens their voices will be heard. That doesn't mean that what they would prefer would happen.

A court won't order for example every Wednesday after school knowing that the father could only say manage 4 in every 40 weeks. Why would they order contact on a set day that cannot be facilitated with work?

For the children to have done this for so long and no wish to object via you, I wonder why that's suddenly happened? Surely thay seed has been planted by someone.
As for the clubs, it sounds as though you've permitted them to join clubs that you knew would or could not always be facilitated without the father losing out on the small amount of contact he already has.
I genuinely think that the best way forward, is plan for the 40 weeks. Then if there are specific sessions the children don't wish to facilitate the contact and miss out on clubs that can then be discussed in a mature manner and possibly worked around with notice.

Both the kids have always hated it but we’ve just all gone along with it for the sake of them seeing their dad regularly. However it’s slightly different now they are older and can take themselves there and back as they have more autonomy over it.

It’s been discussed before with him also but he’s always just maintained there is nothing he can do. However it’s come up as an issue more and more recently with the kids not wanting to go.

He only has a small amount of contact through choice, so I don’t think It would even get as far as to court. He’s been offered 50/50 on plenty of occasions but he isn’t interested as this will inconvenience him and ultimately he can’t be bothered with that. He just wants it to be easy for him. No matter what that means for the kids.

There have been times I have literally had to peel my youngest from the floor into the car to go because he doesn’t want to and I’m just sick of it being a constant issue and this seems the way to resolve it, so they know where they are.

The shift working parent should give the co parent their shifts when they get them.

My husband's ex used to wait until the day of to tell us she was working that day/night. Absolute nightmare and so unfair.

I think that the only way forward is for your kids to get a copy of his rota and send him back a list of dates that they can make- even if it's just a meal at his house on a day that your ex goes to work. So say your kids pick Sundays. They do something with dad if he's not working, has a meal with him or watches a bit of tv with him for a bit if he is.

Is contact with all of the kids every time ? Realistically this might be a time when it changes into one on one sometimes because a child is at their club.

I have teens and contact went from everybody attending every time to the kids who are free attending. Ex was happy for kids to pick social events like sleep overs over contact. The kids are now mid/late teens and ex sees dc1 once every 3 months or so as she has a job that usually involves weekends. Her brother goes to contact on his own and enjoys the individual attention.

@cherryonthecakes

I think that the only way forward is for your kids to get a copy of his rota and send him back a list of dates that they can make- even if it's just a meal at his house on a day that your ex goes to work. So say your kids pick Sundays. They do something with dad if he's not working, has a meal with him or watches a bit of tv with him for a bit if he is.

Is contact with all of the kids every time ? Realistically this might be a time when it changes into one on one sometimes because a child is at their club.

I have teens and contact went from everybody attending every time to the kids who are free attending. Ex was happy for kids to pick social events like sleep overs over contact. The kids are now mid/late teens and ex sees dc1 once every 3 months or so as she has a job that usually involves weekends. Her brother goes to contact on his own and enjoys the individual attention.

Usually it’s both but not always there has been times when it’s one or the other because of clubs.

I am fine with either and the kids do like having time alone. Though there has been some times he has said they may aswell not bother and his stay with me if one can’t make it. I have suggested 1-1 but he’s made some reason why it’s not worth it.

In reality I think he does want to see them but he wants to make it seem like it’s ‘out of his hands’ if he can’t when usually it isn’t and sometimes I just think he’d prefer not to see them or have to bother. He likes to make it look outwardly like he’s doing all he can whereas in reality he could do a whole lot more. Eldest has clocked on to this. Youngest is starting to.

I think he really struggles with a relationship with the eldest. They don’t fit into his nice little box of what he expects from a girl and he doesn’t know how to handle any of the teen stuff and prefers to pretend she’s still 7 when she’s almost an adult. So they argue quite a bit. So I feel any 1-1 time with her is usually some excuse. Whereas he’s more keen to do it with the younger one as she’s often out anyway.

@Blendiful

Both the kids have always hated it but we’ve just all gone along with it for the sake of them seeing their dad regularly. However it’s slightly different now they are older and can take themselves there and back as they have more autonomy over it.

It’s been discussed before with him also but he’s always just maintained there is nothing he can do. However it’s come up as an issue more and more recently with the kids not wanting to go.

He only has a small amount of contact through choice, so I don’t think It would even get as far as to court. He’s been offered 50/50 on plenty of occasions but he isn’t interested as this will inconvenience him and ultimately he can’t be bothered with that. He just wants it to be easy for him. No matter what that means for the kids.

There have been times I have literally had to peel my youngest from the floor into the car to go because he doesn’t want to and I’m just sick of it being a constant issue and this seems the way to resolve it, so they know where they are.

I get all of that, but it's missing the point, there cannot be consistent contact on a set day with the father due to the rota. So that's not really even a remotely sensible suggestion and needs refuting and I think that you should be doing this to make them see reason. A rolling pattern of contact or contact agreed in advance is what's really the best outcome.

I also think that there's a huge difference between him not wishing to opt for 5050, which tbh would have been an absolute nightmare to manage if he has such varying shifts and him not wishing to lose the contact that he does have on his non working days is entirely different. Whether he would go to court, only time would tell.

I also think that understanding the changing needs of children is harder if you don't see them daily. Heck even as a 100% lone parent, there are times it's taken me a bit to get used to or see the changes that have happened.

I understand that it's stressful trying to sell contact with a father who'd probably rather it fizzled out.

I still think the best that your dd can expect is to look at her dad's rota and commit to a convenient time and place each week/fortnight/month/half term . How often is contact currently ? I assume that your ex spends some days off with just his wife or does adult things like errands or getting drunk with his friends. Some kids have their main contact time during the school holidays because there's a long distance between the parents.

If he works nights, maybe future contact is little things like eating breakfast or dinner together ?

It's a shame that he won't enjoy having just one of the girls. I suspect my ex finds it much easier when it's just one of our kids and they have a better time as their time centres around that child's likes

I have a job with a set working pattern so that I can parent my child. Surely the onus is on him to find a way of having a set working pattern so that he can parent his children?

He can make a flexible working request to have fixed shifts or look for another job that works for the dcs.