What to tell a four year old, if anything, about his father not being bothered about him

[FlllightAttendant]

I think I know the answer to this one but I wanted to ask for thoughts if anyone wants to share theirs

A few weeks before Christmas I was seized with a vision of Ds1's father and how he should be there for the Nativity play.
He stopped visiting or answering my messages about 3 years ago.
Before that we had had a few difficult access visits. They stopped when I was told he had been lying to me and was living with someone new, and I needed to get over my anger. He had been very unreliable also - refusing to give me a phone number/address etc. and being late. Anyway it was all very raw and I was relieved when he stopped coming, but I got over it to a degree and invited him back several times, no answer to anything.
I had an idea where he lived, which is only 1-2 miles away, and the other week I just drove there. It was his house. His new wife answered the door, he returned shortly after, we spoke for about 20 mins and I invitied him to the play. It was very amicable but nothing was agreed - he just said he hadn't ever wanted to be a 'back door dad' and (I think) that's why he thought it best to be all or nothing about it.
I kind of understand. But Ds does ask about him and I struggle to answer, saying we'll find him one day I expect. Ds doesn't know I found him and I guess it would be horrid to know his father had refused to come to his play - we left it that ex would think it over, but I haven't heard anything since.

It makes me very sad. I believe ex is afraid of emotional ties and commitment, despite being married and having been married before (when I met him ) - I also believe it is best for a child not to be ferried between unhappy parents/argued over. But at the age of four, I would now be better prepared to let him see his dad, if only once a year, so he knows who he is.
Trouble is, would that hurt more than not seeing him at all?
How do you explain to a four year old that daddy has a new wife and family now, that he hasn't time for you, that he isn't the dad you want him to be?
Should I be doing anything about it all?

Please advise as it is breaking my heart a little bit.

I was going to post almost the same question as I have just had an email today from my dd's father basically saying he's not interested. Sorry I have no advice but I'll be reading responses.

Wishing you and your ds all the best

Thanks, Chick

It is so sad isn't it? He has been making 'Daddy' out of his Magnetix today. It is the daddy he wants, with robotic guns for arms etc. and infinitely more reliable than the real thing, but still...

Really to read your story Flightattendant. I don't have too much first hand experience of this, so take anything that I say with a pinch of salt, but my gut feelings are firstly, that your ds is only likely to ask more questions in the years ahead as he grows older and goes to school etc. Secondly, it will be difficult to force your ex to be involved but perhaps a softly softly gentle approach could be tried?

You didn't say how you got on with his new wife, but imo this might be the key to the way forward especially as it sounds as though she has children with him and their feelings will be her top priority. Could you write two short notes, to both of them separately and perhaps delivered when you know the wife is in, saying the same thing ie, you are really worried about the affect of your lo growing up asking questions about his father and then finding out he is living so close but doesn't want to be involved with him? If you put everything from the point of view of your child rather than yourself and keep it polite and reasonable then this might work. Perhaps you could make some tentative suggestions for contact such as meeting up at a local park or something. If nothing else, then at least you could keep a record of the letter for the future to show your son that you really tried to have his father involved.
You didn't mention about any other children that you have and if this is relevant. Also whether your lo has a stepfather/partner.

It is very sad. I'm not quite where you are, dd isn't even 2 yet, but she's recently started saying daddy and pointing to his photo. I keep trying to get him involved but he just comes back with the same old excuses.

I really don't know how things will be as she gets older, but I was hoping he could get over some of his issues and at least call her occasionally so she knows he cares.

Your son certainly has the right idea, if only it was that simple!

what a sad situation FA
I have no answers, but hope that you and your ds find a real daddy and partner who care about you both and give you the love you deserve, very very soon

You may miss a chance of real happiness if you keep looking back at 'what ifs'.

I think keeping the letters even if you never send them a good idea too as evelina suggested.

Thankyou Evelina. It is nice of you to try and help

Ds1 doesn't have a step father at the moment. I have a younger son whose father turned out not to be very nice, so I left him well before little one was born.

I would love them both to have a decent father figure, if I could only find them one. In fact when I spoke to Ds1's dad, he said he had hoped the same, that basically someone else would take over his role and bring them up.
Ds1 never really knew his dad before he went, which eases things a bit imo - if an attachment had been there to break, the damage would have been worse I imagine. But still.

The new wife was quite cross that I ahd turned up. She treated me with polite disdain and then went out. I did not like her and several friends have told me she is not particularly pleasant - worryingly, not pleasant to ex's other children who are much older.
They have none together, but she has three and he has two.

I think the status quo is Ok except for the fact I want Ds to know his dad, simply because I can see he wants to - and it hurts him not knowing or understanding why his dad left/ has never been around.

I won't try to contact the wife as she was fairly hostile. I really think I have said all I can. They were both pretty shocked to see me after all this time. I think the ball is in his court so to speak but what can I say to Ds? I know he would be hurt to see his dad twice a year say, and then not know why daddy had to go again. I wish there was an easy answer.

Sorry x posted, going to read Wotz now

Hi flight, I was sad reading your post. I am not in your situation but I would simply ask DS1's father what he wants to tell him when he's older or even better, ask him to write DS1 a letter.

You may be able to encourage this as this could be a final resolution and you could sell it to him as such. I used the word sell but please don't be offened, I just cant find the right word IYSWIM.

The ball would be firmly in his court and you wouldnt be involved.

That is a really good idea Cheeset. Thanks. If he does get in touch again, or if I see him at school etc (her children go to Ds's school, but I don't know who they are and hadn't seen either parent during our first term - it is a big school!) I might suggest a letter. I guess it might even jog him into doing something like agreeing to see Ds, just as a one off even.

I wish I knew what words to say to your ds, I am sure it breaks your heart to have to lie to him.

But he is 4 and it is hard for a child to understand such terrible grown up behaviour.

I believe you should be taken out of the equation IYSWIM. Its between him and DS1.

I think you would be better writing a letter to DS1 father asking direct questions your son is asking that he can directly address to his son.
eg...

Can you be my daddy?
Can I see you sometimes?
etc.....

That will make is easier for DS1 father to reply to.

IMO, the letter should not include any emotional stuff. Just questions then maybe you can build on this?

Isn't it going to get very complicated and difficult in the future if your lo goes to the same school as the new wife's children? Very hard on your son if he eventually sees his own father at the school gates and doesn't even acknowledge him?
Surely your ex and his wife would see the unfairness of this? It's one thing if he lives miles away or abroad, but quite another for him to live so close and to ignore his child.
I don't know anything about the circumstances of your break up, but my instinct tells me that this could be very upsetting for your child as he grows up. It's all very well for your ex to say that he would like his son to have another father figure, but you are not in this position yet and don't know presumeably when you will be.
I don't want to be too hard on someone I don't know but your ex is making me cross.
Could you talk to a child psychologist or someone in authority at the school to get their opinion on this and then you could go back to ex and try and explain to him the trouble he could be storing up for the future?
I've only ever known of one case (very indirectly) where a mother tried to get a father involved who had remarried with a new family and he refused. In this case the mother lived in New Zealand and even this didn't stop her trying because of the interest shown from the children as they were growing up. I would definitely write a nice letter to ex and new wife jointly and keep a photocopy for future reference so your lo can see what a good mum he has.
Good luck.

sorry for your situation.
i cant understand how a father can say your ds be better to have another father figure while he is living just 1-2 miles away.

Hi FA - Im in a similar position to you. When I doscovered I was pregnant i discovered he was married. Anyway I chose to go ahead alone as I afforas 29 and worrie d about biological clock ticking away and financially thought i could afford it (got that wrong). Anyway he had a DS aged one and then my DS came along he saw him once when about 6 weeks and not seen since. In April this year i got a phone call from his wife she had found out about my ds - turns out they have had another since - so he has 3 dc's under three. Scarily she was very calm with me and said my dc have a brother out there your ds has a family at this side etc......

Fast forward 8 months later i have heard nothing so my NY resolution was

to get this sorted so I rang him yesterday morning - i thought i was gonna pass out while phone rang and rang but he answered and i had it out with him - he told me does not envisage being able to be part of his life but hopes ds does not grow up to hate him - WTF!!!!

So what do i tell him - he is only 2.2 at the moment so have a bit of time. I just think i thought that because it was out in the open he might see him....its heartbreaking to actually hear it though

excuse typos my keyboard is ill.....

It hurts to read your OP flightattendant

I'm really sorry that he has decided not to get involved. Unfortunately you can take a horse to the water but you can not make him drink if he doesn't want to.

My suggestion would be not to do anything that may hurt your child. I wouldn't ask DS to write him a letter it would be horrendous if his father doesn't reply. You may send a letter to him and the ball would be on his side but then... it is not fair on you either to be left waiting while he never returned the ball to your side.

I have just recently separated from ex, so I have not much experience yet of this business but... while trying to prepare DS for the bad news, I came accross something that I thought was good advice:

Tell him the truth. It doesn't have to be very detailed, just very factual and short, something that you can expand on as he grows older and his questions become more complex.

I would suggest to mention that you had a good relationship (which I'm sure you had at some point, otherwise DS wouldn't be here!), but that you realised you were very different and were not making each other happy and didn't want him growing up seeing you hurt each other. Then mention that he moved on, and stopped being in touch, and try to introduce at some point that he got married to another woman and has a new family.

It may feel cruel to say these things but at this age is easier and kinder than at a later age. As tempting as it would be, try not to tell him lies about how good the Ex was, as it would make him idealise the situation and look for a father that has never been the father he may imagine. However, please keep record of all contact you have, if you remember the name of the new wife, if he had half brothers and sisters, telephone numbers, where they live, parents names and addresses, etc, every single detail. It may help DS to trace him in the future if he wishes to do so.

MMSAI - that's a great post I am sure that is what I would do if it had happened to me.
I was in a relationship with someone, who then told me he'd still been seeing his 'ex'gf and she was pregnant (luckily I wasn't). We'd been togther 2 years and of course we split, they stayed together after a rocky start, then they married, had more children and 12 years later are now divorced.

So if you keep all the information as MMSAI says, it will help later if your dcs decide to trace their father.

I think you've probably done everything you can to get your ex to be involved, if he only lives a couple of miles away, wasn't prepared to give you adresses and phone numbers ect and didn't get back in touch when you asked him to come to DS's nativity I don't think theres much more you can do. I also agree that the getting your son to write a letter wouldn't be a good idea at this age as it sounds likely he would be rejected if your ex has had the oppurtunity to be involved but choses not to be.
My kids have some contact with their dad but hes very selfish and unreliable.
I've tried to explain to them that unfortunately some adults don't act in a grownup and responsible way, and that it isn't their fault because they are great kids, I then reasure then that I will always be there for them and name all the other people who care about them, family, friends ect ect.

bumping for FA as some good advice that I will use x

I think the most important thing is to be honest about your sons father without putting him down, 4 is a bit young yet to understand really and in my experience a child is only used to what they know. I have bought my son up alone and he is now 10, doesnt know his father not due to anybodys fault but just to circumstance and his father wasnt the best role model at the time and had alot going on in his life anyway he left the area. I think my son has only asked about his father 4 or 5 times just where's his dad and the best thing is to be truthful in a nice way. I now have a line of contact with my sons father who still lives out the area and maybe once or twice a month he sends me a txt as i think its important to keep a line of contact open. As my son gets older its his choice when he wants to make contact with his father and i guess to some fathers it comes more naturally or perhaps they just cant deal with comlicated situatons who knows but Im sure he thinks about your son, afterall its his flesh and blood and please dont try to worry yourself over it cos make the best of what you have and you'll be ok afterall they soon grow up and as a parent you just want the best for your child but im sure as he grows up he will see lots of other kids that are in similar situations. Try not to worry just be positive.

Im realy saddened to read all these posts. I'm wondering if im going to find myself in the same situation with my ds and his dad. I know im going to get asked why daddy doesnt live with us and im going to tell him the truth that mummy and daddy love you but daddy didnt love mummy and didnt want to be a family. well thats the child version of the truth so he doesnt grow up to resent his dad but knows the situation. Flight youve tried so many ways to get your ds' dad involved you cant really do any more. Just reassure him that you love him and will always be there and answer his questions as truthfully and simply as you can. ALB and i HTH

I am in the same situation in that my son's father refuses any contact and always has, we split before he was even born. He is much further away though being in America. I did always speak about him and answer his questions explaining he was a long way away and that is why we didn't see him and showing him a photo when he asked. My son didn't ask me many questions, but at times things would come up, like when school friends would ask where his dad was. Things came to a head when i split with a new bf after a couple of years together and my son got very upset asking why he didn't have a dad or step dad and started talking about his dad and how it would be if he was here. I decided to explaine to my son in a way he could understand (7 at the time), that while he has a father that there is a difference between a father and a daddy. Ie that you need a mother and a father to make a baby, but a dad is someone who is there and does things with them and spends time with them. I explained his father is not and doesn't want to be a dad and that is not going to change (I did get in touch and ask him to reconsider at the time, he decided to remain distant). I am lucky in that his paternal grandmother keeps in touch and so he has a relationship of sorts with her and knows he is loved by my and all his extended family. I am sure there will be more questions as he grows older, but i didn't want him building up this picture of this perfect dad who would make everything right for him and us.

My advice would be honest in a way your child can understand, and don't allow your child to build up a false picture of someone his father is not nor will ever be.

This is really sad . My son's dad moved away nearly 4 years ago because he was bored. We were not together when he moved away and he used to see my son every 2 weeks. Now he only phones him twice a year and sometimes only sees him every 18 months for a few hours. I told him that "sometimes mummies and daddies can't be friends. It isn't anyones fault, no one has done anything wrong but if they live together then they just shout at each other and that makes everyone sad. Sometimes the parent that has moved is no sad or angry at the other parent that it hurts and upsets them too much to see their child. They do what they think is best but sometimes it isn't. Just because they don't see their child it does not mean that they don't think about them though. Sometimes the daddy leaves things so long he gets frightened and he worries too much about what his child is like and this can make him hide away. Just because you don't see your daddy it does not mean that he doesn't think of you, it's not your fault, you were not naughty or silly. I'm here for you, I'm staying here and you are loved very much." I hope this helps.

Agree with Gillybean.

Don't give false hope. You'd be opening a wound that will probably never heal.
As he grows older and starts asking questions, give simple short factual answers.
Like: mummy and daddy are not married that's why we don't live together. Daddy lives far away and is very busy.
Any answer that does not involve the child in the equation and make him think somehow that it might be his "fault".

Maybe a quick session with a counsellor might help you built a database of positive answers to questions to come.

What would be great also, is a positive alpha male figure he could look up to and spend time a little time with. Your father, brother, a cousin, your best friend.....anyone who would be willing to be there occasionally and talk things through with him or go with you to the playground and play football on a sunday morning.

Not in this situation myself but seen it happen. Wish you the best.