20% is that it?!

[noworlater]

After many months (years really) of agonising over whether to leave DH or hang on to a hope of working things out, I have finally come to the conclusion that it isn't going to work. It is sad... but true. I have now accepted that.

So, my dilemma is funding a life without him. We have two young children. We both work full time (and then some). If I leave and take the kids with me (which is of course my only conceivable option), I don't make enough money to support the kids, pay rent, and pay childcare. As I understand he would have to give me 20% of his income. But, 20% of his income would only barely cover 1/2 of childcare, forget food, rent, clothes, school (state school but they do ask for money here and there -- book day, contribute to this, contribute to that, etc.), and activities.

Is this right? Do mums have to pick up the bill no matter how high and the dad's get their responsibility capped at 20% of their gross pay?

If this is so, then I can't afford to leave until both kids are in full time school. I simply couldn't afford the childcare to go to work. This seems so unfair. But, judging from some stories I've seen on here mums seem to get by on unbelievable small amounts of funding from selfish XH/Ps.

£100 sounds a lot of money for housing benefit, if you are working full time then you wont get hardly anything, the same goes for council tax benefit, the housing benefit will depend if you are housed according to your needs and that you dont have more bedrooms than you need, ie. they will expect 2 children of the same sex to share, if you use the entitledto site then you have to included working tax credits, child tax credits, maintenace and child benefits in the calculation to see if you are entitled to housing benefit.

my understanding from my divorce solicitor is that the CSA no longer has any authority, the 20% is now just a guideline not a set amount. but if you are actually married, and get divorced, you are likely to get to keep the house, or any savings/pensions/investments, so its not just a question of hte 20% income, you may also get a lump sum from equity of the house etc. if its any help, from my experience, being totally skint and happy is a whole lot better than being trapped in a marriage you don't want to be in anymore. and i say this even as someone who 3 years down the line has still not persuaded husband to sign divorce papers or hand over any of his considerable income.

sorry i'd only skimmed and just realised you said you rent home, not own, but even so, the 20% is the maintenance figure and does not take into account anything extra you may get from your joint assets which potentially could make a diff to your disposable income

when I was claiming housing benefit 7 years ago I could over £100 per work and I was earning around £15k per year but the monthly rent was £750 for a 1.5 bedroomed maisonette but were I live that is the going rate and the council accept that.

£100 per week - it may have been just under but I know it was more than half of my rent.

at £50K/year GROSS earnings WTC is about £1.20 a week doesn't cover much childcare

I think I must have put the numbers into the form wrong. I think I'm probably entitled to my £116 of child tax whatever it's called that everyone gets. I'm sure IR thinks I'm one of the wealthy. (I disagree)

But, I think I'll have to wait a couple of years on the assumption that I'll get 20% of his net salary... unless I can manage a big fat promotion and raise for myself. Wouldn't that be nice.

I have another question. What happens to pension that he has had since before we were married? Does he keep what he had before the marriage? He hasn't contributed much to it since we got married, though it has probably grown a bit on interest.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I really appreciate it!

have you considered moving job or home to cut down on travel costs/rent? or any way of making your working arrangements more flexible- home-working, or doing some hours at weekends so your husband can look after the children? i don't really understand why you seem to be putting your career before a happy home life. The kids will pick up on and be affected by a negative atmosphere at home, however much you try to shelter them. With regard to maintenance payments, you should try to negotiate with him (depending on his disposition), see if he is willing to contribute more for his dc's. You may be able to apply for and get more through the courts, but this will cost you as well.

re the pension it will depend on many factors like if he had taken it out before he met you and how long you have been married, I think if you both work full time then he should keep that and the same goes if you have a pension then he shouldnt have a claim on yours, there are thousands of lone parents in the UK and we all manage so it is possible, it might take a bit of juggling about but with the generous top up benefits you should be fine.

I find it amazing that you are calculating "how much money" you can get out of all this, have you been open and honest with your DH?

... or are you going to suddenly announce that that's it, all over, I take the kids and that's it? How would you feel if the situations were reversed?

There are children involved in this and the better that you can both smooth this out with the least disruption the better for their future emotional and mental wellbeing.

Is it really over? Can you attend some form of marriage counselling, try Relate to work things out?

FYI CSA guidelines state that the "absent" parent (whatever that means) pays child maintenance 20% of net income for 2 children, although I would highly recommend coming to a private agreement and not get the CSA involved as they are a bunch of incompetent idiots that couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery, they don't care about you or the children, plus if you are on benefits, you won't see hardly any of that money, you will get benefits plus a tenner a week - the rest .. goes to the treasury!

I don't think you know me or my situation well enough to find anything about it amazing. Your questions look a bit more like accusations than genuine questions so I won't bother addressing them. But I will say this, OF COURSE anyone considering a divorce needs to consider how much money they will need to support the DCs. And then consider what sacrifices will be imposed on the children before leaving. You don't think I'd move out, and then look at whether or not I could still afford to go to work, do you? DH is unlikely to seek equal custody for a variety of reasons I don't care to discuss on this thread. So the burden of financial support will be mine. I think he should have to pay half of the cost of raising our children, but it sounds as though he doesn't. Now THAT is amazing.

Message withdrawn

Yerblurt, don't you think she owes it to her children to find out what sort of life she should be able to give them? You know nothing about the situation, just because you haven't been given all the salacious details doesn't mean she is going to get up and wander off rubbing her hands with glee at the prospect of fleecing a Good Man ...he might be a miserable abusive bastard - you don't know.

noworlater - you are right the csa guideline is 20%, but you would be much better usually, as someone has said, to agree privately on the basis of who earns what, who needs what, so that the childrens future (and yours) is secure. Obviously I don't know your situation, but in my experience friends who have used the csa have had real problems. we agreed between us without involving the csa, and it was difficult, but we sorted it. The other thing I did, which you may want to think about, is found a solicitor whose approach was mediation rather than confrontation. This avoided a lot of letters going backwards and forwards and the cost of each letter! we had several appointments together, with the solicitor, and the bills were not as bad as they might have been (although still not cheap!!). Also, don't forget you can access reduced council tax as a single person, so the expenses do tend to reduce. I'm not sure about the pensions part, as the major pension in our case was mine and I refused to part with it (for very good reasons indeed), but generally pensions are counted as part of your assets and split accordingly. In terms of advice, the Citizens Advice Bureau might be useful as well. Best of luck - its not an easy time, but I think you are absolutely right to think of all the issues before such a decision.

Has anyone ever used this service?

www.divorce-online.co.uk/services/default.asp

I am obviously still muddling through my unhappy marriage. But, I can't take it much longer. I'm starting to look at my options and see how much money I need to get out. Obviously, divorce is not free.

Also, I'm wondering if I'm really in any hurry for a formal divorce. If we lived in separate homes but were still technically married would I still qualify for tax breaks (i.e. council tax) and 20% of his income, or whatever the agreed childcare contribution would be?

Hi, sorry to hear of your situation, its not easy is it.

I am not divorced but have been separated from my husband for a year now and I get working tax credits, child tax credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit. My ex doesnt pay me any maintenence but thats a whole other story!!

I have just started divorce proceedings and I am also entitled to legal aid to do this but do have to pay the court costs.

I'm using divorce online, I'm currently in the middle of a divorce. They are very helpful and I'd recommend them. All I need to do is return some forms to the court (ex signed the papers) and sweath an oath in front of them, I just havent been able to get there recently as I have a bad back and can't sit in the car/drive/travel for too long and it's about 30-45 mins to the court sometimes longer with traffic.

What about maintenance? Would I be entitled to that if we were married but not living in the same home?

Feeling old, did you separate legally or do you mean you just moved out. If you separated legally, what is the advantage of doing that over just moving to another house?

yes - you could get child maint if you separate.
The 20% figure can be reduced for the average no of nights the children stay with the non-resident parent per week (so a weekend a fortnight is approx once a week - so you get 6/7ths of 20%).

Pensions - assets in the divorce settlement, depending on value, length of relationship etc as to how/if they are divided.

my ex moved out - we therefore are separated from that date. Nothing legal, just fact.

Maybe you should talk to him about it.

How would you feel if he did what you propose doing to him?

We just separatated, I moved out (he wouldnt even though he was having an affair) official date just given to housing benefit people, tax credits people etc and the date given to solicitor should you need to be separated for a certain amount of time for divorce.

Of course you would be entitled to child maintenence, I am entitled to it my ex just doesnt pay up!!

ditto above your possible ex can pay any amount via a private agreement the 20% NEt income figure is the CSA minimum - my ex pays me the minimum 15% via a provate agreement if he doesnt pay I go straight to CSA from what Ive heard CSA are pretty useless so try and negotiate with him have you thought of mediation. I was in a similar situation well I worked p/t him ft he arned £160k a year me £6k he walked out and left me and dd a year ago almost and though I thought I would never manage I am - granted I had to move house some 300 miles away and school and job etc but I did it and now I have my own house a job ( well temp job till Sept) and am coping . The thing is unless you do it you can never assume what will could happen - I never thought a year ago Id be where I am today I had no choice but to move for total financial reasons and it seems to be working -I have bad days and I have good days keep coming on here theres lots of support

Lostdad, maybe you shouldn't make assumptions and use them as a basis to criticise me on behalf of the brotherhood.

You can lead a horse to water
but you can't make it drink
You can lead a man to conversation
but his ears are without sensation.

I appreciate I have left huge volumes of detail off this thread. But how much were you expecting me to type here?

Brotherhood? Perhaps we're both making assumptions, noworlater.

Perhaps I was being a little esoteric.

Just read about what could happen if you make unilateral decisions and your husband decides he's not going to walk away. My situation involves several thousand pounds, my ex moving hundreds of miles away with our ds, seven court hearings so far (and more on the cards) and about 2 years of grief.

Still - if you think risking all of the above (and more!) is more appealing than talking to your childrens' father about how you can both work together for their benefit, go for it.

Personally, I'd rather my ex had talked to me and all the above was inevitable the moment she decided to do what you (and perhaps I am making assumptions) have considered doing.

Still - your choice.