HELP!!! DH and I are separating, please help me find a good solution for contact/visits. :-(

[Isababel]

Ok, so finally, we are at it. We have been very civil to each other about the matter until the visits topic was aproached.

He said initially that children should be with the mother (DS is 4 yrs old) but now he wants to have him for a week at a time.

DS has multiple allergies and does need plenty of consistency as we have noticed that as soon as routines are relaxed we get a call from school as his behaviour deteriorates. So, I'm afraid that one week here and one at DH's would be not exactly consistent for him.

We have tried to get to an agreement about this and so far the options are the following:

-DH takes him to school most days (his suggestion, which I think is a fantastic idea)
-DS goes to DH's after school on Wednesdays and stays with him overnight.
-On weekends, he can have him from friday afternoon to saturday evening OR from saturday evening to sunday evening.

-DH takes him to school most days
-DS goes to DH's after school on Wednesdays and stays with him overnight.
-Dh has ds from friday afternoon to sunday afternoon on alternate weekends

DS stays full week with each of us on alternate weeks (I cry thinking about this).

Could you please help us to find the best solution for DS?

TIA

Hi Isabel..

Sorry it has come to this....I would say 1 or 2..which ever the 2 of you can agree on? I take it your son has spent most of his time with you on a daily basis, or maybe a whole week away from you would be as disturnign to him as it is for you?
I would say 2) has the least amount of disruption to ds?
Hope you come to an agreement soon xx

I am so sorry you are having such a sad time of this - it must be awful.

I have no experience of this - so am only voicing an opinion based on what you have said about DS.

I would have said option 2 would work best as it can be built into a strong routine. And because you both seem him everyday and alternate weekends.

Option 1 has scope for change at the weekend which could be unsettling, given what you have said.

And option 3 would be too awful for me to contemplate were I in your position - a week without my children would devestate me and I would'nt be able to do anything.

I hope you sort this out in a way that you are both happy with.

And at the very least if I have'nt helped then at least it is a bump.

{{hugs}}

Isababel - I have lots of experience of this now as I have two stepsons.

Our arrangement up until now has been pretty much equivalent to your solution 2. It worked pretty well when the boys were both at primary school but is now evolving, both because they are getting older and because their mother is very busy (works hard and has a time-consuming new lover .

My partner still takes his younger son (in last year of primary school) to school every day on his way to work and this is an excellent arrangement for them though personally I shall be glad when it ends next year as it makes my day very long (partner has to get up very early to do this and can't do anything at our house in the morning).

On alternate weekends the boys stay with us from Friday to Monday morning. Personally I think that going back on Sunday afternoon is not a good idea and, interestingly enough, it was my partner's ex-wife, herself the daughter of divorced parents, who insisted on full weekends - as a child she had hated the Sunday afternoon drop-off.

On the mid-week thing - this has always been the difficult part. It is very tiring for children to spend nights away from their usual home during the school week and I hope that your ex has full domestic arrangements in place because it will be very tiring for him and your son if he has to make dinner etc after a long day at work.

Since your little boy is so young, a week at a time would be a terrible idea. Little children need one home with their mother. Here in France the one week on one week off thing was popular for a while but the courts no longer ever give this - it can only be done under private arrangement, and most childcare professionals abhor it.

Thank you for your suggestions. May I also add that DH frequently goes into trips due to his job? most of those trips are during weekdays and at this time of the year they could be up to 3 per month.

How will your ex DH's trips affect his ability to care for your son? Will they change your regular arrangements and are you going to pick up the pieces?

I'm sorry I can answer to your post one by one (they are MUCH apreciated), but I will as soon as I come back from work. {{{{{{{{{{Thank you}}}}}}}}}}}}

anna.... it seems that will be the case, yes.

This thread may be my stronger argument against the one week each suggestion, so please, please, please be kind to him (I would like to show him this thread [begging emoticon])

Isababel - no worries, the posts are just ideas for you to mull over and make the best decisions for you and your DS .

Another thing - make sure that you agree on pick-up and drop-off times and who does what and keep to it. You would never guess the amount of aggro that separated parents (and stepparents ) go through because one person isn't a reliable timekeeper and keeps the other parents waiting around.

On picking up the pieces for your DH's job - be aware that while you might find this OK/normal to begin with, you will not like it much as time goes by (especially if you get a new partner). So don't establish a situation where your ex DH thinks that you are eternally available to pick up the pieces from his job - be clear that you are doing him a favour that might not always be available.

I think 2 is the best one. I think the problem with a full week each is that it's a long time to go without seeing either your mum or your dad, and whichever parent his is with he is likely to miss the other one.

How are your parenting styles? Are they very different? He may well get confused with having one routine and set of boundaries one week, then having to have another the next week. I think for consistency's sake it's better that he's with one parent for the majority of the school week. But also if your x is likely to want to change things because of his work it will make things easier. He is either available to have him on a Weds or isn't.

I think as time goes on too it's better that you have alternate weekends. It would be really difficult for you to arrange things like weekends away or sleepovers, stuff like that if the weekends are always split.

What I would say is try to see things from your x's perspective. You cry when you think about being away from your ds for a week, your x may well feel the same and will also miss him dreadfully when he's with you. That might be why he's wanting to have a full week - it might just be a knee jerk reaction to realising that he isn't going to see his little boy as much.

Hope you manage to work something out. Have you thought about mediation?

I would suggest 2, that way you both get to have quality time over a weekend with your son and can plan trips, dates or nights out around it. You might agree that its a good idea now to have your ex take your son to school, but eventually when you have moved on you might not appreciate your ex coming round your house 5 times a week, why dont you make it a trial and see how it goes

Thank you for your advice.

It seems that option 2 is better. I'm starting to have second thoughts about the Wednesdays as DH is away very often which means that DS may be expecting the day to be with his dad and then it doesn't happen. Which I think may be quite unsettling.

I'm trying to see the things from DH's perspective, perhaps much more than what I should but, at the end of the day we have to do what suit DS better rather than try to fit him into our plans. DH thinks that the week on week off is a good arrangement as he would be able to plan his trips around that. If DS was older and had less allergies things will be easier, but he is only 4 yrs old and keeping his food save requires A LOT of extra work/time.

bump

i would go with option 1, i prefer my dd age 4 to only stay over one night then be coming home, she prefers it as well,

what ever happens i would be prepared that ds probably will come back unsettled no matter what for the last 2 years dd has cried after every visit to her dads, which makes it very hard on everyone,

good luck with what ever you decide, you both sound like great parents

Tottie - my stepsons (admittedly older) don't like coming for single nights as they find it too short to settle down. On the contrary, after a longer spell they are happy to go back to the other house and find it less unsettling.

Hi Isababel

I am the product of a divorce (I was 10 and youngest brother was 5 when it happened). Based on how I felt as a child I would say #2 looks like best option for establishing a regular routine. Gives lots of contact time for Dad and regular routine that your son will learn. A week on and a week off is quite unsettling for all concerned and if your ex is on business trips could lead to him missing whole weeks of contact if you try to stick to set weeks. Or son getting v confused about where he will be from week to week. But I think that full weeks with Dad as a holiday during normal school holidays is a good idea. But this would be a special out of the normal routine "holiday" - even if they only stay at home. Maybe you can agree that he gets full week during Easter and then maybe 2 weeks during summer hols. Christmas gets very emotional - I never wanted to be away from my mum at Christmas so we would go see Dad after Christmas for a couple of days.

Hope this helps. It must be hard but I so appreciate the fact that my parents managed to keep things fairly civil when they split.

Thank you all. There have been some very good points brought in that I had not considered. I'm still sad at DS being away for the full weekend but from what you say, it looks like the best option.

For those of you who have been with these choices, is there anything you wish you had done differently?

Any ideas on how to tell DS would be highly appreciated. Considering how often DH (or ex already?) travels and how used DS is to his trips, I was thinking that we could tell him that.... that what??? I have so many ideas on my mind but then they look rubish as soon as I try to put them in writing!

Hi Isababel,

All the advice on here rings true. To add my bit, well actually my lovely, reasonable (mind-set, rather than price ) family-law solicitor's bit: put it in writing, so you and your ex- both have something to refer to. He wasn't looking for work - his idea was for me to write down the contact we agreed and how we intended to manage it (i.e. times - like Anna says) and avoid problems further down the line. His big caveat was to always remain flexible because that is the way you have to be with small children - sickness, other new commitments, all the usual eventualities may come into play, at some point.

As for telling your little boy: together if you can, and in really simple, factual steps - Mummy and Daddy love you; you and Mummy are going to live here; Daddy is going to live in X and take you to school, see you such and such a day/days and it is going to be OK.

Good luck - it is up there as one of my hardest moments ever.

ThreeGs, I'm really fearing the moment when we have to tell him. I thought of explaining the situation very simply like we have found that Mummy and Daddy need to... gosh... I will never get there... anyways, that this is like one of daddy's trips but longer and in the same city, so Daddy will take him to school and every other weekend he will be able to join the "trip", etc.

Sam100 Thank you for bringing in the perspective of the child. We touched the topic of Christmas last night and that was the end of the conversation. How did your father cope with you not wanting to be there? I know that either me or dh would be finding it soooo very difficult when we get to spend a DSless christmas [BUAAAAAAA!!!!)

Anna8888, thanks for the informative posts, I supose that I really need to think of a way where we can get to an agreement about what to do about his trips. In a way I'm used to picking up the pieces when he has to go away, but I will resent it in the future. Obviuously I would LOVE to have DS for that extra night but I would be very angry at DH failing to be there for DS if DS was looking forward to it.

Tottie, I'm expecting the disruption I do really hope that it doesn't mess DS too much.

Tinkerbel5. That's indeed a very good point. At the moment, it seems like a good way for DH and DS not to loose the day to day...

little alien wants me for a while, I'll be back in a moment 9or two)

Is there any reason why a shared parenting plan should not work?

I think the "bog standard one-size-fits-all" alternate weekends (which DH isn't even getting) and a few hours mid-week are not good to promote a fullfilling relationship of child with dad.

Some of your posts come across as rather selfish actually - what I detect is that YOU miss the child, how can YOU bear to be away from him, rather than what the child benefits from.

Children benefit and thrive from consistent frequent parenting time with BOTH parents.

You may balk at the child being away from you for a period of time - how does dad feel? Don't you think HE misses his child, that he gets depressed, that he suddenly feels relegated to a 2nd class parent?

The reality now is that the old regime cannot work, in reality, when parents separate they have TWO parents who both love the child dearly and want what's best for him/her, the child also has TWO homes of equal value. Both parents are equal, there isn't suddenly some sort of parental hierarchy.

All the evidence shows that children thrive best when parents work together for the child with consistent frequent parenting by BOTH parents.

My daughter used to have a 1 week on, 1 week off (she's 4 3/4 now) and it worked for us, she was perfectly happy with it, we arranged that every night there was a phone call to the other parent, a simple "night night" phone call, a brief chat.

It had the advantages that both parents got a lot of parenting time, the child had a stable routine, both parents could get involved in all aspects of the childs life - nursery/school etc and my daughter thrived on it. This was until she unilaterally tried to disrupt it and decided to take it through the family court system - she wanted a sole residence order and a defined contact order for me. Well, I object to the terms "contact" and "visiting" as if I am a prisoner or a hospital patient, I am a parent full and equal like mum. Anyway, I applied for a shared residence order which was eventually granted this year, to the benefit of my daughter.

I would suggest trialling a few parenting schedules. It all depends of course on the ex - can he be relied upon to stick to the bargain? Does he actually want to be that involved? The point is, that this so-called "standard" alternate weekends and midweek few hours DOESN'T WORK.

Find out what works for you - maybe 1 week on 1 week off is too much at this time, maybe not. Why not a split weeks situation?
Say:
Week 1: Thur-Sun overnight (i.e. monday drop off at school)
Week 2: Tue+Wed overnight stays.

This sort of system has the advantages of predictability of routine, both parents get involved in the day-to-day routine of the children, the child doesn't learn outdated gender stereotypes (i.e. mum does all the "work", like school run; dad is the "fun" parent who child just sees at the weekend) and the child knows and is secure that he has two parents who equally love him and are involved in his life. What could be better?

Mediation might be a good idea - if you are both equally committed to working things out for the child? Look up national family mediation now and make an initial appointment, make all the appointments and give the dates to the ex, do it.

Have you seen DfES parenting plan?

www.dfes.gov.uk/childrenandfamilies/downloads/ppeng.pdf

believe it from me, you don't really want it to go through the family court system, I know from experience that is stressful, expensive and will probably wreck any future civil discussion between you and your ex as it is basically adverserial litigation with a "winner takes all" attitude. The ONLY winners will be the scumbag solicitors who will make thousands out of your misery.

My solicitor agrees with Yerblurt: avoid court, wherever possible.

Don't forget - you don't actually have to tell really little ones why the relationship is over (very emotive stuff, usually) as they don't seem to need it. I, personally, wouldn't use the parallel of a business trip as DS may, then, expect your ex- to come home sometime in the future.

Back to your OP - no, only you, DS, and his Dad will know what is best for DS. What do you think? As your ex- travels a lot, doesn't this have to be factored in, but along Anna's lines - working round it for DS's benefit, not as a deciding factor.

Yerblurt, I think you are being harsh. Selfish to say you'll miss your child?

will try to give my own pov as a child:
my parents split when i was 10, my brother 7, my sister 4 and our older brother (different dad) was 14.

they stayed living in same area to facilitate shared parenting. we all felt we couldnt bear to be away from either parent for more than a few days so there was a system in place whereby we 'swapped' houses (went to school from one house and went home to the other) on mondays , wednesdays and fridays.
now, i know i missed either parent... but i found that hugely unsettling and difficult to negotiate. in fact, i asked to change to weekdays at my mums (where i had my own room) and w/ends at my dads and did so for a number of months when i was about 14. my bro and sis continued as before. that was awful too as i found that w/ends were busy w friends often (remember, i was older than your ds) and i missed my dad SO much. (and asking felt like 'breaking up with my dad and broke my heart)

im not sure what im saying really - both solutions were v hard for me. i never did get to grips with routine and that affected homework/academic achievments. i was pretty bright back then!

they did always stay amicable about us (if not about money and who deserved what ) and that was v much appreciated. we shared xmases, alternating houses each year, but always both being there. and partners too when they were about. birthdays ditto.

with rgds to telling him; i def agree with person who said tell him together. and rehearse so you can be clear and reading from same page and make clear is nothing hes done etc etc. my mum told us on her own and my dad was 'missing' for a few days after... and i will never forget the first line of that talk, nor the fear thatid never see himagain. in fact, i asked him to apologise for not saying goodbye about 15 years later!

am a bit emotional writing this-sorry if have rambled. hope any of it helps. sorry if opposite!

fwiw - i think the dh taking to school every day is a fab idea. basically ideas one or two, but, sorry, without the midweek change.

Yerblurt you have been bloddy unfair, I have just gone half way your post. DH was my best friend before being my boyfriend, and continue to be that as my husband, if you have seen us discussing the issues yesterday you could have appreciated how hard we both are trying for that friendship (a very good one regardless of the break up) to remain in place for DS's best interests.

Yes I will miss him, and so will DH that's why we are working together on that, unfortunately it is the first time we are faced with this situation and can only draw conclussions from what we have seen, hence the reason of this thread. So take your judgements to your own thread, you are obviously barking at the wrong tree. I'm not your ex!

Agree about avoiding court, I don't really think we will get into that.