I have had enough

[SistemaAddict]

Two dds. They will not do as they are told. Short of physically manhandling them into their rooms they won't go to bed. They was up after about 2 hours of being told to but refuse to use either warm/hot water or washing up liquid so I have to rewash everything. I've removed all Internet access to see if their attitudes improve. Any kind of gaming and watching nonsense on YouTube has a negative effect. I am the worlds worst mother obviously but I have had enough as their behaviour is negatively impacting their brother's behaviour and turning him into an aggressive badly behaved little boy. He is only 5 and copies whatever they do.
What else can I do? I've tried reward systems, house rules, rotas for doing the dishes, they just refuse and no amount of consequences has any effect. I'm exhausted by them all.

It's tough. You need to come up with a carrot and stick approach when they are being reasonable.

We had set chores, expectations and in return an allowance and mums taxi service. It's never plan sailing with teens but clear expectations is my top tip

I have very clear expectations and they are well aware of them. I've just come upstairs to find my make up all over my bed despite Dd1 knowing that she is not to use it and her promising she wouldn't. She has her own make up and more if it than me. She knows she's not allowed in my room but ignores that too. Yet if anyone goes in her room god help them. She just can't be trusted to abide by any rules at home yet does so at school.

Have you tried totally mortifying them in front of their friends..iv used this threat in the past with both my oldest, it seemed to work as they both know i would do it without a 2nd thought..sometimes good old fashioned blackmail is the only thing that works!

How old are they and what time are they supposed to be in bed? What are your other rules?

How old?

13, 11 and 5. They should be in their rooms by 8 but read until 9/10. They are bookworms so they love bedtime reading. They mess around until 10 then expect to still have reading time and of course the little one won't settle be sure they are disturbing him. Next day they are cranky as hell as tired.

Yes, I think we need more detail about ages, expectations etc.

Also, you've talked a lot about consquences and reward systems, but you haven't really mentioned anything about your relationship with them, whether you have talked to them about the reasons for your expectations/their behaviour etc. I don't think bribery or coercion really work with this age group. It's all about mutual trust and respect in my view, alongside good communication. What are you doing to develop those areas?

X post re ages. So are you saying that the 13yo has to go upstairs at the same time as the 5yo? This seems very strange to me. Also odd that a child of 13 would be banished to their bedroom as early as 8pm. Why is this?

That is very early for bed for 13 and 11!
I’m sure you can explain to the 5 year old that he has to go to bed earlier as he is younger ?

You need to have clear consequences. And they need to be related to specific bad behaviour. What did you do when the make up was all over your bed?
I wonder if you are so fed up because you put up with lots of little things they shouldn’t be doing and then do something dramatic like removing all internet access.
What’s the stuff about them not using warm water? To do what?
Their behaviour won’t be making a 5 year old aggressive though.

That’s a very early bedtime at 11 and 13, particularly given they don’t need to go to school. When my oldest was 13 he’s be fiddling around until 1-2 am regularly !

I think it's very unreasonable too to suggest that they are responsible for the 5yo's behaviour.

Why are you sending them to their rooms at 8pm?

The trick is to have very few rules.

Mine have only ever had to keep their room tidy and clean. If they don’t clean them and they live in filth that is up to them. I don’t go in them unless invited and I don’t make comment on what state it is in.

They have never had to do anything else
This has resulted in they do load the dishwasher, will stick a washer load on, will sweep the floors. They just do things automatically now.

Yes I did have to do everything initially but it did mean that the household didn’t have any arguments and I didn’t have to shout.

Have a small number of rules that can’t be broken.
If that means your room is off limits and you can’t be sure they can stick to this rule then put a lock on the door.

Also I didn’t really have bedtime when they got to senior school.

If they stayed up late then they were tired in the morning. They soon learned to regulate themselves.

I have two teens who never helped at all and if they did it was awful, so i hired them they get paid min wage i don't give pocket money they earn their money so the do jobs around the house they clock in time started and clock out they get £4.50 an hour so its up to them how much they earn in Sunday they get payslips with wage they get bonces and deduction for bad job 1st week went well second week eldest didn't do much and was very disappointed when her wage arrived 😆 now its a comp who can earn the most

Your bedtime expectations are totally unrealistic , perhaps if you started treating them as if they were more grown up then they might behave in a more grown up way .

Put a lock on your bedroom door

Agree about the bedtime. I think 9pm in their rooms (followed by reading) would probably be about right at their age.

I don't really get why it is particularly their job to do the washing up? That seems a bit much at their ages and it also needs to be done properly for food hygiene reasons. If they were mid to late teens, fine.

I am a single parent with chronic health conditions. I go to bed myself by 9pm and want some time to myself for an hour before I go to bed. I haven't the energy to be up and down the stairs all evening. We live in a town house. The dds have always needed 10-12 hours sleep. Dd1 is usually asleep by 9 if she's been settled and reading and gets up around 6.30/7am. Dd2 needs more and is very difficult to get up if she's not had enough sleep and we all suffer dreadfully for her lack of sleep. They are unable to self regulate and if left to their own devices would be up until gone midnight. Dd2 doesn't finish school until Thursday and has lots of work to do so can't be in bed until late morning.

Our dishwasher broke a couple of months ago now and that's why we are hand washing things. At 13 I was cooking all my own meals and I don't think it's too young to expect them to contribute to the household chores at all. I do all the clearing away of ingredients and prep stuff and they just need to wash, dry, put away and wipe the table and sides. It's a tiny kitchen and would take them 15 minutes tops if they just got on with it. Instead they drag it out for over 2 hours arguing over who does what. Dd2 yells at me every time I say she needs hot water and dairy liquid to wash things. She point blank refuses because she wants to do it her way and screams at me to leave her alone. She throws amazing tantrums over things and cries over the tiniest thing. Lockdown has made everything worse as I'm shielded and it's been hard with no friends or school for us all. I've not had any kind of break since the 12th March.

If anything is taken off them they just search until they find it and carry on regardless. Pin protecting things on the tv results in the eldest keeping trying until she gets it right. When they are supposedly doing school work on the laptop or tablets they'll be playing games or on YouTube. No means nothing to them at home. They are beautifully behaved when at school.

Ds has become aggressive since the dds have not been going to see their dad (Christmas) They are both verbally and physically aggressive to each other and he copies. He looks up to them and if they say no to everything then so does he. Ds goes up for a shower and stories between 7 and 7.30 and he's another one that needs 12 hours. The dds constantly disturb story time and settling down time and then he's up and out of bed several times.

I don't mind them reading at all for an hour or two but from 8pm it's my time to watch tv if I want to or just to be able to relax without the constant interruptions.

Dd1 is on a different floor to the other two and they will mess about and be up and down stairs for hours.

Our rules loosely follow their schools' in that we respect each other and people's belongings and space/privacy, we do as we are asked first time, we clear up whatever we've had out, keep rooms reasonable (clothes away or in the wash basket if dirty and any glasses taken to the kitchen), we don't hit or kick or scream.

So at what age do you propose to let your children decide when to go to bed , they can’t self regulate unless you let them learn how to do so and I assume your health conditions aren’t going to change .If I were your eldest I’d be particularly aggrieved that my bedtime is an hour after a 5 yo - when does she get to chill downstairs without her little brother and have quality time with you ?

You’re sending your 13 year old to bed at the same time as my 3 year old. If you begin with unreasonable expectations then things aren’t going to get better from there.

II don't mind them reading at all for an hour or two but from 8pm it's my time to watch tv if I want to or just to be able to relax without the constant interruptions

They are your children. You family. It's their house too. You can't send a 13 year old to bed at 8pm because you cba with them anymore. What message is that sending your kids. You will likely have a huge battle in your hands as they grow between your massive controlling of their every move and the divide between you already.

They don't go to bed at 8. I spend all day with them, they have my full attention. We have a movie afternoon or evening once a week with popcorn and sweets for family time. We eat every me together at the table. They are not short of time with me. They just choose to mess around for hours in the evening. I've tried seeing if they self regulate. They can't do it and their school attendance then suffers as they feel ill due to being tired. Try feel sick, dizzy and have headaches if they don't get enough sleep but just can't self regulate. If they could I'd just leave them to it. I watch tv about once a week. That's it. I don't think it's too much to ask to have the living room and tv to myself for one evening.

Unfortunately as the mother of 3 teens I think you have to accept that you won’t get evenings to yourself once they hit a certain age. I usually go to bed before they do.