claiming maintenance off a father that is not on the birth certificate, what happens?

[j20baby]

quick background-ex left when i became pg, says he wants nothing to do with either of us and told his family she is not his child(even though he knows full well that she is!) he made threats to burn my house down and we got moved, baby id due in Oct, so he wont be on the birth certificate as we're not married and i know he wont be interested, what do i do about claiming maintenance if he carries on saying hes not the father?

Hmmm, thanks for your answers ladies. I've tried looking up info on google but found nothing.

The thing is, i suppose the law is going to have to be looked at for 'assisted conception' situations eventually as it must be a growing thing. Esp for my generation of 30 somethings who have put off babies and then never met the right man to settle down with.

In any case, i'll be going back to work, 25 hours a week, and have been working since i was 16, so think i've contributed quite a lot in terms of tax not to feel bad about claming some working tax credits!

In some ways my situation almost seems easier as i dont' have an expartner to battle with, but i did grow up with a useless dad who never gave mum money or behaved like proper father, so i totally understand the hassle a lot of you seem to be going through. What a nightmare. I wish you all lots of luck and patience (prob need that more than money!)

thanks again, x

Hi again Neuro. Tax credits are completely separate from benefits or child maintenance. If you are not claiming any benefits, then HM Customs & Excise (who deal with tax credits) are not interested in who the father is or whether he is paying any maintenance. Tax credit eligibility is worked out purely on how many hours you work and your particular household income (yours combined with that of anyone else who lives with you as part of your family (excluding child maintenance)). Unlike the benefits people, they are also not interested in whether you have savings. If you will be living on your own with your baby and working 25 hours a week, I'm sure you will qualify for child tax credit and working tax credit (unless you earn megabucks!)

There used to be a really good website www.maternityalliance.org.uk which was an independent charity campaigning for better maternity rights, and had loads of information, but it doesn't exist any more. Citizens Advice Bureau (and their website) and www.entitledto.com are good sites and obviously the government site: www.taxcredits.direct.gov.uk.
Best wishes for you and your baby when he/she comes.

Flightattendant:

BBC article on naming father in the birth certificate: ://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6756381.stm

Mumsnet thread about it:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1372&threadid=342151&stamp=070705175643

Thankyou sky, will take a look

they will only ask you to name the father if you want to claim benefits because they would prefer to get maintenance off him before they give you benefits. but tax credits don't take maintenance into account so it won't matter. although if you said you didn't know who the father was i doubt they could do muh about it anyway.

Thank you skyatnight very very helpful.

The future father has now said he will contribute a bit now and then, so i'm wondering whether to just behave like he's nothing to do with it and then everything i get will be a bonus OR do i actually put him the certificate, but if i do that then i think the CSA might chase him, and that was never the deal! I definitely think he would help me if i ever get really short of money, so in a way want to avoid the whole CSA thing as he may be more useful in buying big things for me once in a while, like shoes, a bed when it's older etc. I suspect he would like to be on birth certificate for man pride reasons, but i'm not convinced it is a great idea. PLUS as i shall be pretty much sole carer, and the person keeping a roof over it's head and nappies on it's bottom, then why bother?

Anyway, i'm rambling and need to do some work.

Thanks again, was v useful info. XXX

nappyaddict just read your post, so that sort of answers my questions anyway!

is this man a friend of yours or have you ever been in realtionship? i really admire him for helping you have a child like this!

is a friend, but we used to sleep together. great sex, but totally incompatible in all other ways you can think of.

I think i have talked about this to you before?!

Neuro, the CSA wont chase for maintenance unless you ask them too or you apply to claim benefits (ie income support etc) - tax credits dont ask about maintenance and are not affected by it so as long as you are working you'll be fine. Its your choice to name him and under the circumstances I might be tempted - he's obviously someone you have a good relationship/friendship with and did this for you so if he wants to be named you may want to do that for him.

On a totally separate point, I do think the new rules where the father has to be named is a good thing (they will have a safeguard in place where domestic violence is an issue and is proved). Too many people lie and say they dont know the father so that they can claim benefits and have their maintenance cash in hand. Some dont register the fathers name out of spite due to falling out etc. Mums automatically get rights once a child is born and fathers should get the same and not have to apply for them.

a legal/technical question for the op
whether he admits to being the father or not, does it matter re his name being on the birth certificate? if you know he is the father, then can you not put it down?
or does he have to be present if you are not married?

Hi Neuro - In the media section of MN there is someone looking for people for a magazine article I apply to one of them also so going to forward my details on!

Hope you don't mind......

J20, I haven't read the full thread, but I also wanted my DS's fathers name on the birth certificate.
I managed to get this done through a court order done by a solicitor (cost about £500 but would have got legal aid for it but wasnt eligible as working).
Obviously I had the DNA test results to prove he was the father.
I've still never had a penny off the CSA and have never heard from him since I told him I was pregnant.

I had personal reasons for wanting his name on the birth certificate that no-one, not even my solicitor understood.
Basically, I did not want the stigma, nor did I want DS to have the stigma as he grew up of having the 'blank space' next to where the fathers name should be.

I know it shouldn't matter these days, but its just how I felt personally.

hi sorry, i forgot to check on this thread,

well, as hoolagirl says, i don't see why my lo should not have her fathers name on her birth certificate, i mean what if something happened to me before she was old enough to ask about her father, she'd have no way of knowing who he was would she, my ex's son has his father on his birth certificate, my 7 yo dd has her father on her birth certificate, why shouldn't this one just because he's a selfish tw*t.

Cylon- as far as i'm aware, fathers can not be registered as the father unless they are married to the mother and she shows the marriage certificate or if they go together.

j20 is right. if you are unmarried the father has to be present to sign the certificate.

j20 is right. if you are unmarried the father has to be present to sign the certificate.

j20b and hoolag, at the time, I asked dd's father to be on the b. cert.. I sent him an email with the form attached that he could have signed and sent to me to authorise the registrar to put his name on. He said he would consider it but refused in the end. I think we were both quite bitter about how things had turned out and I think he was a bit paranoid about what it meant.

I don't understand why he pays maintenance (which surely shows that he is the father anyway) but would not be on the birth cert.. I can only assume that, as he is self-employed, he did not want the CSA looking into his finances so preferred to pay maintenance voluntarily. I think he just doesn't want to acknowledge his daughter because he knows that hurts me and he gets some satisfaction from that (**%$%%&%?!?!).

I have thought about going through the CSA, so that they would contact him as the father, and I am interested to hear what you have said, hoolagirl, about the court order from a solicitor. I was not aware that you could do that. Overall, although he has treated us badly in many ways, and although it will probably give rise to new problems, I would like him to have a relationship with dd and, at the moment, I am not hassleing him in the hope that, when some of his own problems have been resolved, he might consider showing more of an interest in her.

He does talk about it but nothing happens. He may be waiting until she is talking properly and out of nappies, i.e. easier to look after and old enough so that he can take her away to his Mums for the day. In the meantime, I don't want to annoy him as it will just set things back. If nothing changes I might consider the court order route as it does make me angry that he refuses to acknowledge she is his child (especially as we were ttc and it was all planned and then he let me down).

There is still a stigma to being illegitimate, and it is sad that dd has no father named on her birth certificate, but the saddest thing of all is that children's fathers show no interest in them. The other kids at school will never see a birth certificate but they will be aware that a child doesn't see their father and the child will wonder why other children have Daddies and they don't. Why can't these men put their children first?

I know that some single mothers would prefer not to have any contact with the father, due to reasons of abuse, and I respect that.

i assume to get the court order to put his name on the birth certificate you would have to get him to have dna test which he probably wouldn't do cos he would probably realise why you wanted it.

unless of course you threatened to get the csa involved. he might do it then.

Sky we where the same, ttc and very loved up, then we argued one night(before i found out i was pg) and that was it! we got back together briefly, but he lives an hour away and i foundthat he kept lying to me, then he threatened me and wanted me to abort the baby, he's told all his family and friends lies, i'm not sure what, but they wont even speak to me. i do want my lo to know her father or at least his family and i really hope that he will have a change of heart, but i doubt it

nappyaddict - yes, it's not entirely clear from hoolag's post whether she had to have the DNA test already done in order to get his name on the birth cert. Or whether the court order has the power to force the father to have the DNA test? I thought that only the CSA had the power to do this? If I went via the CSA, I might get a bit more money than he is currently paying me and, if he refused the DNA test, it would be clear that he was the father but, as I said, I am still trying the softly, softly approach because I don't want to do anything to offend him such that he can blame me for being the reason he doesn't see dd.

If he did see dd, he would probably cause me more pain and hassle. I don't want to see him myself if I can help it. But, I don't see why dd should suffer because her parents made a hash of things. It would be fine if he would just see her, say, as little as 4 times a year, but that it would be reliable quality time with her so that she knows his side of the family and doesn't have a complex about it. I'm not expecting him to do half the parenting and for me to have every other weekend to myself. I've managed thus far on my own.

j20baby - yes, probably very similar situations. We got engaged in February (04), very loved-up. He wanted to just go for it (ttc), me too. We were both getting on a bit (I was 36 when I had her) so assumed it might take months or years. We went to buy an engagement ring at the end of the June and I felt really weird physically and upset and depressed (must have been the hormones). I couldn't choose a ring and said, let's do it another day. His ego was apparently hurt and we had a massive row. I found out in early July I was pregnant. We tried to make it work but things had already deteriorated a lot. He said I was too moody (yes, I was pregnant?) and that it had all happened too quickly, we hadn't had enough of a honeymoon period together, he felt I only wanted the baby, not him.......rapid disintegration of the relationship. Go figure. He also wanted me to have an abortion, said that we could get our relationship back on track and then try again (!!!?!!??!) I think he was just lying about that, don't you?! At the end of the day, it turns out we didn't know each other as well as we thought we did, or should have, and I do feel some responsibility in that respect. I'd only started seeing him the previous Autumn. In retrospect, we rushed into things.

I am pretty sure he has probably told his friends and family whatever he felt necessary to make it all look like it was my fault.

Do you ever feel like you are saying too much on Mumsnet?!?? I'm normally a very private person but it helps to talk to other single Mums about these things, I suppose. Anyway, you know it all now.

hoolagirl says that she did have the DNA results proving he was the father, so i would assume they had come to some arrangement between themselves?

sky-yes, when we found out i was pg, after the initial, 'we''l be ok, i want to see the baby' crap, he then decided he wanted me but not the baby(funny that they all say the same thing) however, i thought i had lost the baby early on(early scan couldn't find hb) and told him that, however i didn't tell him that a later scan showed lo was ok, i was confused and trying to get my own head straight, however, he then rung me one morning to say that, actually, he didn't want me neither, so he was just trying to emotionally blackmail me into terminating the pg to then dump me, just to make his own life easier.

he doesn't want any scan pics, baby pics or even to know when she's been born, which is his loss, but i also feel a sense of loss for my child.

yes, probably do say too much on MN but i'd probably would not be able to cope as well as i do if i couldn't vent on here

J20baby - I think the men we are talking about are so immature and selfish. Do they realise what a huge thing it is for a woman to be pregnant, about how much emotional support you need at that time, about how devastating it is to be dumped at that time? No, of course they don't because, to even acknowledge it, they would have to accept and honour their own responsibility and that would take some guts on their part which they don't have.

I realised it wasn't going to work between us but the least I expected was that he would feel bad about it and try and support me in whatever way he could. No, instead I endured several months of emotional abuse and stress from him while he tried to manipulate me and kept changing his mind about whether he would or would not be there for us. He still admits that dd was planned, that he wanted a baby with me. He remembers when she was conceived (for him it is still like a happy memory!) But he sees no contradiction in then saying that he changed his mind because things changed between us. I got too serious and moody and it was no fun any more. &£$^£%

I would never wish to not have dd but I wish I had never met him. I feel guilty because I was 35 and had let go of a couple of long term relationships (9 and 5 years) because I wasn't ready to have a child when I was younger. By the time I met him, I was ready and, although I realised it was a bit of a whirlwind romance, I did love him and thought we had a future together. We discussed everything we wanted out of life in detail and agreed we wanted the same things. Now I feel he was just telling me what I wanted to hear because, at that time, he wanted to be with me and would say whatever it took to achieve this. Was I fooling myself, just blindly rushing into ttc with him because I wanted to have a child and he happened to be the one who was around at the time?

I really didn't want to be a single parent. I only ever wanted to have a child in the context of a good relationship. I certainly would not have got pregnant on purpose without the man's knowledge but I think people who don't know me very well might think that is what I did.

I couldn't have an abortion. It just wasn't in me to do so. I've beaten myself up about what happened a lot over the last 3 years, crying over spilt milk, but I think I am starting to get over it now. Looking after dd on my own is challenging but worth it and, as time goes on, I think, deadhead though he is, he will have more regrets than I do.

csa do not have the power to force someone to have a dna test. they say have the test to prove you aren't the father so if you don't do the test you haven't proved you aren't the father, therefore you are.

so if your ex knows he is the father he probably wouldn't agree to the test and would just say yeah i am i will pay the money. but then i suppose if he has agreed to pay the money that shows he is the father and that might be enough to get a court order for the birth certificate thing although i've never heard of this before.

Yes, thanks nappyaddict. I understand what you are saying. I'd not heard of the court order thing either but it might be an option if I decided to pursue the matter in the future.

Sky, your ex sounds a great deal like mine. Agreed that we could have a baby because I told him it was something I wanted and we'd already split up because of it just through being pragmatic. He said he couldn't live without me and so came back saying we could have a baby.
I conceived, we weren't trying but weren't very careful either - fully shared responsibility for that - and immediately I tod him I was Pg, he swore and became really, really upset, he would not tlk to me for a week or two, just came round, sat on my sofa sulking, looking miserable, crying...he basically demanded I have an abortion and we could maybe have a baby 'another time'! WTF...
I said there was no way I could stay with him if I did, but I arranged one anyway as I was already a single mum and knew I'd need my parent's help AGAIN if I went ahead with the baby, as he was being such a tosser...he had already been mentally abusive for the few months we were together and it got much worse. I cancelled a few abortion appointments and in the end knew I couldn't have one. He did eventually agree to 'let' me keep the baby...but from then on his moods, his avoidance, excuses, criticism, all escalated till it was very clear he didn't want to be around, and kept saying he wouldn't help bring up the child - he was genuinely freaked by the commitment. So I dumped him, told him to be himself and go off and be free, as I'd rather that.
But all through the pregnancy he kept harrassing me to go back to him, to save face I tink as his mum was very pushy and told him to...in the end, knowing he wasn't ever going to regain my trust or respect (or his place in my bed, more like) he failed to turn up for a visit to his new son, and tbh I'm extremely relieved.
I'd visualised a lifetime of hassle from him.
He still seemed to think, last time we spoke, that I was just in a strop and would calm down and admit that he'd never been abusive to me or DS.

After all I'd been through without his help, to suggest I'd have been better off staying with him when he'd never lifted a finger even then, was ridiculous...he was a useless bastard and although I never wanted to be a parent again with no partner, I am coping - just - with my baby, and it's easier without his input.

Sorrry to go on a bit but I felt like sharing when I read your posts !
We should form a sisterhood!

Good luck